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BlueDagger wrote:That wave, coincidentally, is full of game breaking rulings that I have been patiently waiting for CB to clean up.

Bluedagger, would mind giving us a quick list of those game-breaking rulings so we can go look them up? I missed the hacking issue, and am worried that something else is missing in there.

At least CB actually are willing to reconsider their rulings, rather than taking a "corporate bluster" approach like certain British minigames companies.

Back on topic, Alpharius that list looks quite solid. Total reaction drones are very helpful if you plan to base-camp your cheerleaders a bit.

BlueDagger wrote:Yeha the re-edited rules are very nice. Once you have the basics of rolls and moving down, I fuly suggest never looking at the book again lol. The wiki is VERY well organized and you can just surf through the rules there for hours on end.

One of my fav things to do when I first started playing was to surf through the different units on Army Infinity and click their special rules to look at the rule's entry on the wiki page.

I do that quite a bit - in fact... shhhh... I was doing that for a little bit at work today!

If you really want to take down a TAG with a hacker, TAKE a remote with an EVO repeater.

It allows you to do several things:

HALVE the BTS mod for hacking it (round up) (BTS-9 becomes BTS-5) - which is a 10 or less on WIP 15, beats a 6.

Enhances the guidance of any drop troops.

Allows the POSSESSION of a TAG with ONE roll (instead of two) - but the BTS of the target is the full value.

In practice I have found EVO repeaters very lackluster. They have all the drawbacks of remotes, plus it has no offensive capability and baggage making it a liability in a fight against ariadna or non-hackable lists. the TAG ruling at least makes them useful, but overall not with the points half the time.

The biggest elephant in the room game breaker FAQ at the moment is that CB ruled that if an enemy triggers a Zone of Control ARO it becomes a use it or loose it ARO. AKA if you are behind a wall and I enter the ZoC of your model, you are then granted an no LoF ARO (change facing, alert, etc). If I then move into LoS getting into B2B with you there is no ARO that model can take such as shoot/dodge, because you were already granted an ARO.

This can lead to common situations were you are hiding in a building and a model with a sepsitor walks up next to the wall triggering a ZoC ARO. He can then declare to sepsitor you and you will be unable to defend against it since the WIP roll defense against sepsitor is an ARO.

That will have to be given another look, don't you think?

Did the official Infinity forums blow up when that one was announced?

Most people don;t know the ramifications of it or that the FAQ was ruled that way. I've warned CB several times, but we currently have several things waiting for FAQ.

Since I co-handle the FAQ on the wiki those items have been sectioned off as "waiting for review" along with other beauties such as the wall warp trick that wasn't properly FAQed.

Place two models under the same camo marker using camo deployment behind a wall, preferably in a secure building. When the time is opportune have one model Jump to reveal it's self thus revealing the other model under the marker as well. Both models can be placed anywhere within 1/2 inch of the original marker, so the one that jumper stays inside whiel the other warps to the other side of the wall. The model that went through the wall doesn't trigger AROs since it is not the model that preformed the order to reveal.

You can use this trick to drop a surprise nasty behind an enemy when they least except it.

That kind of dirty rules-lawyering trick seems more like a 40K style thing to do - surely the Infinity players wouldn't stoop to that level?!?

To stop a rules lawyer you have to think like a rules lawyer. No one I have seen would try to do something like that, but that is kinda my self appointed job to find that crap as a TO.

BD - quick question...

What is the Jotum armed with?

The 'official' army list says MULTI HMG + Heavy Grenade Launcher.

The 'official' picture says:



And I have to admit, it does look more like a flame thrower than a grenade launcher...

Hmm interesting... he should be armed with a HGL but that is defiantly a HFL looking weapon. Since it's the official model don't worry about WYSIWYG but maybe its a future option.

Or maybe they are getting rid of the HGL?? Nope that is just wishful thinking.

@BlueDagger, thanks for the rundown. Wow, those really do need to be FAQ'ed. And the no-waiting ARO messes up one of the most important parts of close-in combat mechanics. Lamesauce.

I think I'll join the fray on that issue over in the CB forums if (sadly a very conditional if) I actually get time to make a well-considered post on it this weekend. It seems like an important thing to get fixed.

Regarding EVO repeaters:

@chromedog, forgot about the AD:CJ guidance from EVO. Do you ever use that?

Too bad it needs an active order to do so, or it would be really handy for armies with AI beacons.

The EVO CJ boost is usually a moot point because coming in via AD:2 is usually so much better than AD:3.

Fleshed out my PanO force and then... with some of my Tax Return money... fleshed out my Morat and Shasvastii forces...

Sphinx anyone?

I can't help myself when it comes to T.A.G.s!

Speaking of which, anyone know when the Raicho might be released?

Alpharius wrote:Sphinx anyone?

The Sphinx is a great miniature, lots fo detail and very well posed. Unlike many robot models this one has really well solved articulations. Specially the neck seems like all the pieces were sculpted with the idea of a really complex movement, with numerous pieces turning... I love it.

But, I should warn you, it is not as big as the usual TAGs, it is small compared to them, it has the size of the Anathematic or a Dog Warrior.

The troop profile of the Sphinx is one of the deadliest and most effective of the game, only behind the Cutter and the Avatar IMHO.

BobbaFett wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Sphinx anyone?

The Sphinx is a great miniature, lots fo detail and very well posed. Unlike many robot models this one has really well solved articulations. Specially the neck seems like all the pieces were sculpted with the idea of a really complex movement, with numerous pieces turning... I love it.

But, I should warn you, it is not as big as the usual TAGs, it is small compared to them, it has the size of the Anathematic or a Dog Warrior.

Thanks for the heads up - and I'm OK with it being on the small side.

Plus, it is already on its way to me!

Congrats on the Sphinx, Alpharius. That'll be right fun to use in a Shavastii list. The Climbing plus looks especially awesome to use. TAGs climbing buildings, flaming stuff–scary!

As for the Raicho, thorough meh-ness on the rules. Unless you're playing Morat sectorial, an EI aspect is a way better bang for your bu... er, points.

Savnock wrote:Congrats on the Sphinx, Alpharius. That'll be right fun to use in a Shavastii list. The Climbing plus looks especially awesome to use. TAGs climbing buildings, flaming stuff–scary!

As for the Raicho, thorough meh-ness on the rules. Unless you're playing Morat sectorial, an EI aspect is a way better bang for your bu... er, points.

Ah, but I am planning on a Morat Sectorial!

As a rank beginner though, I'd love to here your thoughts on my the Raicho is so poor a choice, please!

Sure, though I'm not highly experienced myself (just over a year playing now, although I've really gotten into it in that time). I haven't ever played a Raicho (nor seen anyone proxy to try one out) so please take this all as theoryhammer. But I'm headed for a Morat sectorial once my Yu Jing are painted, so I've spent a bit of time reading about them on the CB boards and playing with the armybuilder. So here's what I've gleaned from that:

The Raicho isn't actually a poor choice. With the Morat rule thrown in, it's better than the Guijia point-for-point (better BS, if worse CC capability), although you can't have a Raicho Lt. And compared to the Squalo it's better for the cost (well, the Raicho is actually piloted, which has both its positive and negative points). So it's not a bad buy for the points.

It's just that it doesn't really stand out. It's solid, but uninspiring. Kinda like the Guijia I guess, although basic TAG-ness and a multi-HMG are pretty cool no matter what. But I like TAGs with style- heck, the Sphinx is a bit under-gunned against anything but infantry, but the Climbing Plus and Spitfire draw one towards some really interesting play ideas.

The Raicho... well, it's a TAG, nothing that different form three or four other medium TAGs in the game. That's Infinity though I guess- lots of things vary from each other by only a point or two of stat, and small variations (like the Morat rule meaning that it will never retreat) can be quite important. I just like my giant robots to do extra-cool stuff, like carry around exploding robot koalas, go camo on the side of buildings, or cut things apart with their samurai swords. Raicho just shoots its HMG.

The main thing I find myself comparing the Raicho to unfavorably are the EI aspects: for slightly less points, you can get a Charontid or an Anathematic with a Sepsitor, MSV L3, G:Mnemonica, etc. Since you're doing Morat sectorial I guess that's not a possibility, but it's a hard comparison to avoid when one sees them side-by-side in a Combined list.

So in summary, it's not bad for a middling TAG- but given all the other cool options out there it's kinda meh. Given a choice between one of these and three more Yaogats in a link team, I'd definitely go for the Yaogats.

Whatever- when it comes out it will probably look awesome and that's a whole reason to field it. Plus the jump from a Sogarat to Raicho isn't that much, so you might as well go for the big guy.

Thanks for the rundown - I appreciate it!

As you mention, the deciding factor will be how good it looks - and I'm sure it will look great!

For a Morat Sectorial at high points - why not?

You do mention my favorite model though... the one that got me started on a Combined Army force...

The Anathematic!

I'm still looking for the best way to bring that beast to the table!

While light on orders for 300pts at 8 orders...


MORAT AGGRESION FORCES
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 8/Irrs: 0):

RAICHO MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / (89 | 2)
MOV:6-4 CC:18 BS:15 PH:17 WIP:12 ARM:8 BTS:-6 STR:3
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat
ECM

RAICHO PILOT Pistol, Knife
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:11 WIP:12 ARM:0 BTS:0 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat
Pilot

KURGAT Mk12, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (24)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat
Engineer

SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse (3)
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:8 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:-3 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Servant
CH: Mimetism

YAOGAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW (31)
MOV:4-2 CC:16 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:3 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat, Linkable
Multispectral Visor L2, Lieutenant

YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW (42 | 1.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:16 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:3 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat, Linkable
Multispectral Visor L2

3x YAOGAT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW (31 | 0.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:16 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:3 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat, Linkable
Multispectral Visor L2

MORAT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (16)
MOV:4-4 CC:14 BS:11 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat, Linkable


298 Points | SWC: 5

ARMY CODE: eNozNVI1VzNUM6wxUjMCkobmagZAyljNFEwag0lDNNIQpAYAahMMkQ== Army Infinity v.3.0.


- You have an Medium series TAG with 8 ARM.
- You have a full linked team of Panzerfaust wielding, MSV2 monkeys, that have a sniper for piles of hurt in ARO.
- An Engineer with Slave Drone armed with a god damn Mk12...

Everything but the Morat and Slave Drone have enough teeth to take down a friggin TAG. That is full of win.

I like the Panzerfausts, but would it make sense to shave points my going with a Morat Link Team to get more orders in the list?

Depends on what you want. I'd take the 5 dudes with MSV2s in a heartbeat over regular monkies for more orders.

MSV2 will:
- See through smoke
- Negate all modifiers from camo
- Negate all modifiers from Optical Disrupters

This means that with 5 guys you are shooting at a BS 15 and the only modifiers you have to worry about are range and cover. A sniper rifle is a +3 from 12"-36" and panzer from 8"-32". That means if you catch someone out of cover in that zone you are nailing them with 2 shots of BS18 (omgwtf) either AP/DA or AP+EXP rounds... that is going to make something VERY dead.

Best part is, if they get in close in that 0-8" range you can combi's to fall back on and still spray them with a BS18 2 shot weapon.

Add to that the fact that you still have a damn TAG with engineer buddy and you are going to be unleashing a serious pile of hurt.

I see your point... and I like that list a lot!

Now if they'd only release the Raicho model... hopefully making it look as close as possible to this:

Well since all the TAGs for CA so far have been living monstrosities rather then actual robots I would assume the Raicho will be some kinda badarse looking super armor plated monkey. I for one can't wait to see it!

Reminds me a little bit of the classic Raideen!

The Warstore just e-mailed me to let me know my JOTUM is on its way!

Looks like CB "fixed' the weapon issue and now the Jotum comes with a heavy flame thrower and the Lt. version costs 3 SWC instead of 2!

Argh!

The Lt veraion cost I think was to fall in line with similar TAGs. Remember it also received +1 PH, D.E.P, and went down In points.

I know, I know...

But now the list that I loved is one SWC over - argh!

The easiest thing is to make someone else the Lieutenant, but I did like my T.A.G. boss!

Alpharius wrote:Good point!

Here's the final version of my PanO Jotum List (at least as of right now so I can purchase, assemble and paint it):

PANOCEANIA
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 10/Irrs: 0):

JOTUM Lieutenant MULTI HMG, Heavy Grenade Launcher / (110 | 2)
MOV:6-4 CC:18 BS:15 PH:17 WIP:13 ARM:10 BTS:-9 STR:3
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Remote Presence
ECM, Mountain Terrain, Lieutenant

NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife (41 | 1.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:13 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:3 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
CH: Mimetism, Aquatic Terrain | Mountain Terrain | Zero-G, Multispectral Visor L2

NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife (36 | 1.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:13 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:3 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
CH: Mimetism, Aquatic Terrain | Mountain Terrain | Zero-G, Multispectral Visor L2

FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (14)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:10 WIP:12 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater

3x FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife (10)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:10 WIP:12 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube

MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (15)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:10 WIP:12 ARM:1 BTS:-3 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube
Engineer

2x PALBOT Electric Pulse (3)
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:8 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:-3 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Servant
CH: Mimetism

AUXILIA Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife (14)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:10 WIP:12 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, G: Synchronized

AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:10 PH:8 WIP:11 ARM:0 BTS:-3 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Synchronized

SIERRA DRONBOT HMG, Monofilament Mines / Electric Pulse (34 | 1)
MOV:6-4 CC:8 BS:11 PH:8 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:-3 STR:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, G: Remote Presence
Total Reaction, Repeater, 360º Visor


300 Points | SWC: 6

ARMY CODE: eNozMlQ1MlMzVDOssVQzApMgtqGaGZg0QCNNjMCUsSUyZQrhmID0AwC5BxF9 Army Infinity v.3.0.

BD,

How would you adjust this list, now that the Jotum Lt. is 3 SWC?

Drop the Forward Observer Fusilier and change the Jotum Lt. to a non-Lt. Jotum and...?

Thanks!