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Avatar 720 wrote:A Bolter with a Range of -, S of -, AP of -, and Type of - would not be allowed to have different stats and still refer to that weapon unless given permission to do so in his codex. If he said "My bolter is R12" S10 AP1 Assault 10 Large Blast" and I asked to see his codex, I would see that his Bolter is in fact R, S, AP, and Type '-', and thus he is not allowed to use his other statline.

However, he is not not allowed to add a weapon called "Uber Weapon 1" to his army with R72" AP1 Assault 9, which I would accept as being used to reflect a permissive ruleset. Whilst people might say it's not in any unit's options, he can say that it doesn't say it has to be for him to take it.

EDIT: Might've been easier to give that suggestion to start with, but ah well, it's lonely at 5:35am.

I did not say it had stats of "Range of -, S of -, AP of -, and Type of -" I said "a bolter with No stats"

Remember - = 0 in the rules, so Range 0 is different than not having a range at all...

puma713 wrote: Your model isn't on the board at the "beginning of your movement phase", therefore, he cannot use the power.

Funny how being on the board is never mentioned in the GW FAQs posted above.

puma713 wrote:You do realize that Warhammer 40K is a permissive ruleset right?

Right, so why did you make up a rule about a unit not on the board?

puma713 wrote:And to answer your question, no, you could not cast Fortune on a squad that moved on from reserves this turn.

Why not? According to you they happen at the same time. The FAQs posted above only apply to units moving on not being able to cast powers.

I just want to clarify something Puma. Before the main rulebook FAQ came out, you played that a character coming in from reserves could cast a psychic power that happened during the start of your turn?

ryan3740 wrote:

puma713 wrote: Your model isn't on the board at the "beginning of your movement phase", therefore, he cannot use the power.

I'm still waiting for a page number on that from you.

It is in the FaQ:
Q: If a unit is in reserve, and it has an ability that
occurs at the start of a turn can they use that ability on
the turn they arrive? (p94)
A: No. Unless specifically stated otherwise

So you can not cast Stormcaller on the turn the priest arrives.

The only exception I know is Logan Grimnar can use his start of turn ability when he comes in from reserves. otherwise nothing else can.

ryan3740 wrote:*snip*

You could wrap this all up if you'd just provide a page number that gives us a "start of the turn" phase. Thanks. We'll wait.

ryan3740 wrote:I just want to clarify something Puma. Before the main rulebook FAQ came out, you played that a character coming in from reserves could cast a psychic power that happened during the start of your turn?

No. The FAQ didn't change the way we played, because we played by the rules to begin with. Some people . . . .need clarification on how the rules work. Just because something was FAQed doesn't mean it needed to be FAQed (see Combat Squads in reserve).

Ryan - still waiting on that page number showing that start of turn and start of movement phase are different things.

Prior to the FAQ, when you moved on from reserves you were unable to cast, because thems the rules. You werent on the board to begin the turn, when you are allowed to cast, and you have no permission to cast while off the board.

puma713 wrote:You could wrap this all up if you'd just provide a page number that gives us a "start of the turn" phase. Thanks. We'll wait.

Wait all you want. There is no start of the turn phase. It's a point in time. Otherwise, how do you know when to start? The rulebook doesn't tell you when to start does it? The rulebook doesn't tell you a lot of common sense items, yet you do them. Does it tell you how to roll the dice? Does it tell you to roll the dice in the open so your opponent can see them?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Prior to the FAQ, when you moved on from reserves you were unable to cast, because thems the rules. You werent on the board to begin the turn, when you are allowed to cast, and you have no permission to cast while off the board.

Hey, thanks for proving that 'beginning of the turn' and 'beginning of the movement phase' are different. If they happen at the same time, then I could be off the turn (begin the turn - as you pointed out) and on it (beginning of movement phase) to cast.

I interpret The psychic power is used ‘at the beginning of turn’, while the unit deep strikes in the Movement phase, so a deep striking model cannot use Warptime or similar powers in the turn they deep strike. as "no, because they happen at different times". You interpret it as, "no, because the model was off the board when the turn began - which is at the same time as the beginning of your movement phase."

ryan3740 wrote:

puma713 wrote:You could wrap this all up if you'd just provide a page number that gives us a "start of the turn" phase. Thanks. We'll wait.

Wait all you want. There is no start of the turn phase.

/thread

ryan3740 wrote: Otherwise, how do you know when to start? The rulebook doesn't tell you when to start does it?

Actually, it does. It tells you how to set up the game and how to pick deployment zones. Then, at the end of all that, it tells you to "begin!"

Then, you see what the heck that means and you turn to the Turn Sequence part of the book, where it gives you the turn sequence. Movement phase is all you have to begin with.

ryan3740 wrote: The rulebook doesn't tell you a lot of common sense items, yet you do them. Does it tell you how to roll the dice? Does it tell you to roll the dice in the open so your opponent can see them?

Actually, it tells you most everything you can and can not do, including common sense items. It does tell you how to roll dice. It even tells you that you have to base your miniatures on the base supplied with the model. It tells you how to remove casualties. It tells you all sorts of things.

One thing it doesn't tell you, is that there is a difference between the beginning of the turn and the beginning of the movement phase. You cannot assume that there is. For you to assume that there is, is for me to assume that all of my Eldar cannot be killed by anything with the word "bolter" in it.

"Hey, thanks for proving that 'beginning of the turn' and 'beginning of the movement phase' are different. If they happen at the same time, then I could be off the turn (begin the turn - as you pointed out) and on it (beginning of movement phase) to cast. "

Wow, I state something showing there is no difference, and you read it entirely the opposite. Bizarre. You also have no page to prove anything, yet we can point to the proof that the two are congruent AND that this is proven by the FAQs.

At the start of the turn, whichi s also the start of the movement phase, you are not on the board. This means you cannot cast, as you are not on the board. By the time you've finished moving on, it is no longer the start of the movement phase (aka start of the turn) and so you have no permission to cast the power.

This didnt need a FAQ, as it was perfectly covered within the rules.

ryan3740 wrote:Wait all you want. There is no start of the turn phase. It's a point in time. Otherwise, how do you know when to start? The rulebook doesn't tell you when to start does it?

Actually the Rules DO tell you when to start Check Page 92 and 93. Pitched battle heading 5th Graph, 1st sentence.

Hate to sink the boot in or gang up but they actually do tell you how to roll the dice Page 2 and later on Page 19, the priciples on that page also imply a requirement to roll the dice on the gaming table, which one could further imply means "in the open". But I digress

It does seem a bit odd tho' that the rule talks about the start of the Rune Priest's turn, rather than start of the movement phase or start of the Rune Priest's movement phase.

Not really, theyre synonymous terms. GW like to avoid using the same terms over and over, if they can avoid it.

Still odd as it leads to confusion

People get confused over a lot of things.....