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Actually, all of the attacks that the unit puts out are power weapon attacks. Its also fearless, and 10 total complex wounds. The libby can go up to str10, and the rest of the squad is str5 on the charge.

I forgot the Reclusarch is 3 wounds, but the priest doesn't have a PW in that list.

If you wanted to over the top you could always add in a honour gurad and take out the priest. That would be able to take out most othe units but I doubt it would make up it's points

ar, indeed with original post, I run 2K DOA with dev have the same issue.

I am temped to run this list.

sangiour 275
dante 225
chaplian jp mb 130
chaplian jp mb 130
vv 10 men, jp, 8 lighting claw, 2 power fist, 10 storm shield 670
Sang guard 1 pf 3 mini melta 240
sang guard 1 pf banner 240
priest jp, pw 90

2000 pt

what to do, start everything from reserve.

turn 2 see if your vv drop in,

dente, chaplians and priest and SG with mini melta is in one big group.

the other sg with banner is by themselves.

if you get to drop vv and dante group, make sure dante is close to the vv so give them the Furious charge. dante group can also pop tanks as needed.

after coming in, detatch dante, 1 chaplain and priest and join the vv.

the other chaplian to join the banner sguards.

notice vv is the only group with a sergant so he is the one with the extra wound, extra ws etc etc.

so you have the troops that can charge, dante is I 6 so charge is I7. so is Sanguior. everyone got power weapon.

downside is that there low model count.



sangiuor is not ic so it is it's own unit. he is there to give the 6 inch +1A bubble.

I think adding Honor Guard would be a little over the top XD

Question is, is the proposed unit just better than this?

-Librarian
Jump Pack
Shield
Rage

-Sanguinary Priest
Jump Pack
Power Weapon

-5x Sanguinary Guard
2x Infernus Pistol
Power Fist
Chapter Banner

Pros over the Chaplain-Star
-More attacks (26 power weapon+4 fist)
-Lets nearby units reroll leadership
-2+ armor saves
-Almost 200 points less expensive

Cons over the Chaplain-Star
-Lower overall weapons skill
-Less wounds
-Only a 5+ cover vs AP1-2 shooting, no invulnerable save in combat
-Less Infernus Pistols
-Not a complex multi-wound unit

So is the Sanguinary guard unit proposed above better or worse than the chaplain star?

What about Might of Heroes as the second Furioso Libby power? i see re-roll on (WS6) as inferior compared to 1-3 extra attacks. And as these are much more useful against vehicles. And it improved the gross threshold of this expensive unit. Without it, as an example, a Furioso will only ever win combat by 4, to put it in context.

If your fielding one (or two) of these, Mephy is a great choice too.

th3maninblak wrote:Actually, all of the attacks that the unit puts out are power weapon attacks. Its also fearless, and 10 total complex wounds. The libby can go up to str10, and the rest of the squad is str5 on the charge.

Fearless is very important, almost essential, with expensive death-star units.

I once routed a untouched squad of BA Terminators and apothecary (or Librarian?) off the field via Tank Shock. With a Chimera.

Needless to say my opponent was not happy.

Hazardous Harry wrote:

th3maninblak wrote:Actually, all of the attacks that the unit puts out are power weapon attacks. Its also fearless, and 10 total complex wounds. The libby can go up to str10, and the rest of the squad is str5 on the charge.

Fearless is very important, almost essential, with expensive death-star units.

I once routed a untouched squad of BA Terminators and apothecary (or Librarian?) off the field via Tank Shock. With a Chimera.

Needless to say my opponent was not happy.

So we're down to The Sanguinary Guard Beater Unit (or Sanguinary Beater), the Furioso Libby with Wings and Might, or the Chaplain-Star. All are fearless (where it matters), and do an absurd amount of damage. Any ideas on how to choose? I can only buy one.

Razerous wrote:What about Might of Heroes as the second Furioso Libby power? i see re-roll on (WS6) as inferior compared to 1-3 extra attacks. And as these are much more useful against vehicles. And it improved the gross threshold of this expensive unit. Without it, as an example, a Furioso will only ever win combat by 4, to put it in context.

If your fielding one (or two) of these, Mephy is a great choice too.

Indeed, might should be much better. AN average of 2 extra attacks makes it better even on the charge. How many attacks does a Libby furioso have? 2 or 3? Im not sure if it loses the exctra attack for having 2 DCCWs, it does right? In which case might is even better

I'll add that if you're taking Librarians, as in a pair or more, Fear of the Darkness is an excellent tertiary power to take on one of your pyschers. Lots of scary death stars aren't Fearless. The only thing better than beating a rock with your rock is escorting it off the table.

th3maninblak wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

th3maninblak wrote:Actually, all of the attacks that the unit puts out are power weapon attacks. Its also fearless, and 10 total complex wounds. The libby can go up to str10, and the rest of the squad is str5 on the charge.

Fearless is very important, almost essential, with expensive death-star units.

I once routed a untouched squad of BA Terminators and apothecary (or Librarian?) off the field via Tank Shock. With a Chimera.

Needless to say my opponent was not happy.

So we're down to The Sanguinary Guard Beater Unit (or Sanguinary Beater), the Furioso Libby with Wings and Might, or the Chaplain-Star. All are fearless (where it matters), and do an absurd amount of damage. Any ideas on how to choose? I can only buy one.

I think I'm a fan og the Chaplain star. Yes it's less attacks but I like the complex wounds. It should give a nob biker sqauds a run for the money in wound allocation

Joey wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:Dante, Lemartes and JP death company in a Storm Raven.

In the games I've played them they smash everything.

I don't even know how many points that is in a single AV12 model. If your opponent struggles to take it down, you need better opponants.

It must be kept in reserve. By the time it comes on, your opponent has committed to a strategy. You must assault out of the SR the turn it comes on and you will take the middle of the table. I never expect the SR to survive more than 1 turn.

I don't know about the GK SR, but the BA SR is fast with PotMS. The turn it come on it's missiles away!

Ok, still haven't found a half way decent answer to death stars. Played a couple of games against a buddy of mine who is running Deathwing, and he has a unit that looks a bit like this...

-Belial
Lightning Claws

-Interrogator Chaplain
Terminator Armor

-5x Terminators
3x Thunder Hammer
1x Lightning Claw/Apothecary
1x Lightning Claw/Chapter Banner

-Land Raider Crusader
Extra Armor

Expensive? Very, around half his points at 1,750. But let's look at what it can do...

This unit has around a 20+ inch assault range, and rides in an AV14 tank that's almost impossible to suppress. Melta weapons can reliably kill it, but that means sending a squad to get in close, and that's where the fun starts. They reliably kill an average of 18 MEQs on the charge. With rerolls to hit on the assault, and either str8 and rerolls to wound on most of the attacks, almost anything hit by this will be obliterated. As for durability, everyone has FNP and a 2+ armor save, which along side being a semi-complex unit makes it almost impervious to small arms fire. Universal invulnerable saves (with one 4++ and 3 3++) also means they can take a beating from ap1-2 shots as well.

So it's hard to stop, harder to avoid, and very difficult for a Jumper army to take, or anything outside of multiple vindicators. Thoughts?

Librarian dread aint that scary when everyone nowerdays got meltaguns or lascannons or chainfists or powerklaws or rending or thunderhammers or higher initative or melta bombs or ordenance or psydreads or ....

sumi808 wrote:Librarian dread aint that scary when everyone nowerdays got meltaguns or lascannons or chainfists or powerklaws or rending or thunderhammers or higher initative or melta bombs or ordenance or psydreads or ....

Good luck with most of those against an AV13 walker carrying WS6, 2 CCWs and a fistful of attacks. The only real threat outside of combat is Fast Melta. The only real threat inside combat is Double Dice Monstrous Creatures.

When was the last time you saw Chainfists in a competitive list?

Many better Deathwing armies salt in some chainfists. I almost always include one in my CSM terminator squads.

But the bigger threat is fast melta, as most competive lists bring quite a bit of it.

Nothing's worse than watching a squad of terminators get pulverized by a dreadnought. If only they'd had a chain fist.... It was only 5 points!!!!! oh the humanity!!!

GreatGunz wrote:Nothing's worse than watching a squad of terminators get pulverized by a dreadnought. If only they'd had a chain fist.... It was only 5 points!!!!! oh the humanity!!!

Well said. All it takes is 5 points to add that bit of tactical versatility!

Death Company with Lemartes can take on anything. Too bad they got attention deficit disorder and are running after squirrels instead of charging the enemy death star.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:When was the last time you saw Chainfists in a competitive list?

10:30 GMT today. Templars, DA, SW and CSM all run Chainfists in some competetive lists.

My death star that has worked pretty effectively is a Chaplain, Librarian (Shield and Sword/Lance), Priest and 5 Assault terminators (3 Claws and 2 TH/SS) in a Land Raider Crusader.