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What rules do your group have on costume? Are they relaxed or strict.

Which specific period are they covering?

Some groups insist on details like hand sewn costumes; others have a rule where if it looks OK from 6ft away its good enough.

I would point you to suppliers but all mine are in the UK. I can put some links up if you want.

lord marcus wrote:I'm just trying to get idea's on who is good as far as armor merchants, and what to avoid.

Might want to avoid: http://ashcraftbaker.com/ - Sure they're affordable, but not terribly well-constructed. I guess they're OK for a beginner with limited funds, but you'll find yourself pulling a lot of maintenance on their stuff. Customer service is good, though.

Good: http://www.bokalosarmoury.com/ - Pretty good stuff, but isn't available during the 2 big wars the SCA has in the U.S. (Gulf Wars is next week, for example), so you'd have to plan accordingly.

You can't afford: http://www.icefalcon.com/ - If you can't find a price, it's because it'll give you a heart attack. They don't know how to spell "excellent" either.

If you want to do research, look at www.armourarchive.org/links/armouries.shtml - (I think that link works, it's blocked at work). Lots of links, although some may be bad - it's not updated very often.


EDIT: I am computer-stupid this morning.

Sonophos wrote:What rules do your group have on costume? Are they relaxed or strict.

Which specific period are they covering?

Some groups insist on details like hand sewn costumes; others have a rule where if it looks OK from 6ft away its good enough.

I would point you to suppliers but all mine are in the UK. I can put some links up if you want.

That would be nice.

I will request them from she who must be obeyed as I am at work atm.

Welcome! I joined the SCA about a year ago, and am finally beginning to get into my own armor. My best advice for starting out is to find your local group, talk to them and get some loaner armor. I've been fighting for most of this year in borrowed equipment, which really does motivate you to get into better stuff.

If you don't mind the look, http://darkvictory.com/ makes a cheap kit that is nigh-indestructible- although it is very bulky, and obviously plastic until you glue some cloth over it. Then it isn't too bad- I'm using demigauntlets from them right now.

Once you settle on your period, you can be pointed to the guys that make the best gear for you. In the interim, hockey gear can work pretty well- I'm still using those for my knee and shin protection until I can get it upgraded. My kit and persona are 6th century Irish, so most of my armor is meant to be worn under leine (shirt) and trews (pants).

Now this site doesn't have information on armoring and costuming, but it has much, much more on persona and the sca in general- www.florilegium.org.

Once you're ready for a helmet, google hjalmr. He makes nigh indestructible helmets in 14g mild steel for about 100-150, depending on style.

I'm going for the crusader era, although not necessarily someone who went to the holy land.

That'll make the helmets nice and cheap, and very readily available. Maille or chainmail would be your primary armor- but it won't meet the safety requirements for joints or kidney belt. Maille is great at turning cuts and thrusts into blunt force, but it is least effective against blunt force- which is what you face in the SCA.

The bad news is that no one has yet found a quick and cheap way to make it, so maille remains one of the most expensive forms of armor. It can be made, if you have the patience and time to devote to it.

This is a great website with instructions for maille, of any variety. The riveted is far, far more initial work than butted mail, but is both stronger and lighter- which are key considerations for your gear.
http://www.mailleartisans.org/articles/articledisplay.cgi?key=9868

Other than that, a coat of plates, or even a globose breastplate under the surcoat would look passably period for a late 13th century crusader.

I'd assume i'd need gambeson as well, in addition to thigh,elbow, shoulder, hand, and shin armor?

Would the gamebeson, combined with maille meet safety req's for kidney armor?

You could save money and go with traditional Pict armor.

Frazzled wrote:Ok pardon the ignorance then. Who are the guys running about at the Renaisance with padded weapons? They said they were SCA. Frazzled confused (normal state of mind there).

If they say they were SCA, they probably are. But 'light' or 'boffer' weapons are more in line with other groups like Belegarth, Dargohir, and Amtgard. I suppose some cross-pollenation has occured over the years...

I am no marshal myself, but I think a well padded gambeson with mail should exceed the idea of leather and padding- I've got a boiled leather cuirass with 1/2" of closed cell foam over the kidney region, and I hit the minimum requirements for kidney coverage.

Fortunately, 13th century is late enough for steel or aluminum elbow and knee cops to be worn on the outside of your armor, and those are dirt cheap.

Minimum safety requirements is rigid protection plus 1/2" padding or equivalent at all 3 points of the elbow, kneecap, kneck down to spinal point C4. You also need a heavy weightlifting belt or equivalent (which mail and gambeson should be) over your floating ribs and guts. Your hands need to be armored in either rigid demigauntlets with padding and a baskethilt, or clamshell style gauntlets with padding (I'm less familiar with those options, I own demigauntlets).

Thigh armor is not actually required, but will be covered by a good mail hauberk and gambeson. Shoulder is not required, and will probably be just fine with a layer of mail and gambeson. The shin is a good idea, especially if you are fighting other new fighters- it is outside of our target zone, so no one should fire shots at it, but it also hurts like nothing else to take a hit there.

Needless to say, you want and are required to have a cup.

Ahtman wrote:You could save money and go with traditional Pict armor.

That would probably be just as fatal for a reenactor as it was for the Picts... assuming you aren't arrested for it.

Back when I was into it, they did have padded weapons but they were mostly for kids that had to play too.

My armor was mostly hand-me-down stuff from other guys, so if you're just starting out it might be a good idea to ask some of your new fighter buddies. For my body armor, had a big plastic oil drum looking thing that one of the guys got ahold of, and we spent a saturday playing with power tools cutting in into different sized plates and got enough to make armor for 2 other noobs too. I just threw an oversized tunic over the whole thing so no one knew how fugly it was but me.

How about motorcyle racing gear (not street gear). I had armored gloves, armored greaves, foraeram guards, chest/back and shoulder protector (plus helmet but figure thats a know know.

Just to get started.

Gitzbitah wrote:I am no marshal myself, but I think a well padded gambeson with mail should exceed the idea of leather and padding- I've got a boiled leather cuirass with 1/2" of closed cell foam over the kidney region, and I hit the minimum requirements for kidney coverage.

Fortunately, 13th century is late enough for steel or aluminum elbow and knee cops to be worn on the outside of your armor, and those are dirt cheap.

Minimum safety requirements is rigid protection plus 1/2" padding or equivalent at all 3 points of the elbow, kneecap, kneck down to spinal point C4. You also need a heavy weightlifting belt or equivalent (which mail and gambeson should be) over your floating ribs and guts. Your hands need to be armored in either rigid demigauntlets with padding and a baskethilt, or clamshell style gauntlets with padding (I'm less familiar with those options, I own demigauntlets).

Thigh armor is not actually required, but will be covered by a good mail hauberk and gambeson. Shoulder is not required, and will probably be just fine with a layer of mail and gambeson. The shin is a good idea, especially if you are fighting other new fighters- it is outside of our target zone, so no one should fire shots at it, but it also hurts like nothing else to take a hit there.

Needless to say, you want and are required to have a cup.

Thanks. Still working out rough cost estimates. I'm not afraid of learning with leather or metal so I'll probably be able to get some base mat's and someone to help teach me how to make stuff.

This guy does great boots and high quality long bows:

http://www.philfraser.com/archery.htm

Also a bit of an expert in archery and dress. Always willing to give a little help to people getting started.

M'lord Baron Maredudd (the gentleman who introduced me to the SCA) Had me over for an informational meeting today, and even granted me a belt to use in garb.

A friend of mine and I went years ago to our local group to see about getting involved. I started on my armor but didn't stick with it for long. My friend went full in and did quite well in events. I do not think he is still with the group now though.

One thing though, no matter how padded your helmet is you will still get your bell rung by the occasional sneaky shot. My second practice a blow came out of nowhere and caught me on the right side of my helmet. My head rang for a week. It was fun what little I was in it though.

Hello,
Well to get past the kidney requirement you need a leather belt at least six inches wide at a minimum chain does not count toward this, (overal it depends on height), I wear 3/4 plate, 16 ga. cold forged stainless breast and back, same material for gorget, and codpiece. My elbows are 16 ga. as well, and my legs (3/4 cover) carbon steel. My helms one is riveted 12 ga. top, and 14 ga. sides, and the open face one is 14 ga. top and sides. I also have some gear I loan out, including a 14 ga. chain maille shirt and 16 carbon breastplate. Gaunlets are a funny thing, do not get fingered ones, as most SCA groups will say no, to many injuries are caused by hand damage, I use 16 ga. mitten style. I built about 3/4 of my gear, as there are patterns on the web, it is not that bad. All of that said, I fight live steel, which is not allowed for the most part in the SCA, however for me the armor are requirements are the same.

That breastplate makes your butt look big.

Frazzled wrote:That breastplate makes your butt look big.

Well now you see why I lend it out , that is a pic of my buddy Josh wearing some of what is called my "toybox" collection. You can see how heave it actually is due to his shoulder curve. The chain bit is just to heavy to do much more then playing in for live steel, mainly because I do not like to be slowed down. However just for Frazzled I will show you what makes my but look big.

Regards,
Carl

Dang, how can you afford SCA and GW games?

Tell me your secrets!

Gitkikka wrote:http://www.icefalcon.com/

Followed link to read:

Ice Falcon Armory wrote:My staff and I are dedicated to bringing you just what you want.

Next to this picture:



LOL

Manchu wrote:

Gitkikka wrote:http://www.icefalcon.com/

Followed link to read:

Ice Falcon Armory wrote:My staff and I are dedicated to bringing you just what you want.

Next to this picture:



LOL

parade gear for a roman praetorian, or at least close to it.

My barony used boffer (the padded weapons) for new guys and reaction training, since all you needed was a helmet and shield for protection(shield was for training) plus a cup, you can move faster and the hard foam weapons are alot lighter than rattan(which is 2x as dense as bamboo) so if you can block one at full speed a rattan sword looks like it in slow-mo.

Unfortunately lost interest after I realized those that were young enough to do fighting were jerks/pansies("I only lost because my gauntlet was loose/old injury blah blah blah" or "I'm not gonna fight you, I'd beat you so fast it isn't worth putting armor on") Those that were too old, well, we didn't have much in common and my GF who introduced me to the SCA left me for a guy she met for 4 days at Pennsic, immediately after we got home(and I'd paid for the whole trip too)

We don't have the SCA here, but we do have small reenactment events every now and then.

Thing is, we use steel weapons (not sharp, but steel nonetheless) and wih a good gambesson you're golden and barely feel them.

I know that in Spains, at events like Ciutadilla, the minimum protection is a ambesson, a glove for the sword hand, an arming coif and a helmet (and not closed, I use a classic spangenhelm).

Here's my sword, for instance, and never killed anyone with it... yet~



Edit: me with equipment sans hauerk (though now with the hauberk, I weight the same as I did back then without it xD)

Exalted Pariah wrote:My barony used boffer (the padded weapons) for new guys and reaction training, since all you needed was a helmet and shield for protection(shield was for training) plus a cup, you can move faster and the hard foam weapons are alot lighter than rattan(which is 2x as dense as bamboo) so if you can block one at full speed a rattan sword looks like it in slow-mo.

Unfortunately lost interest after I realized those that were young enough to do fighting were jerks/pansies("I only lost because my gauntlet was loose/old injury blah blah blah" or "I'm not gonna fight you, I'd beat you so fast it isn't worth putting armor on") Those that were too old, well, we didn't have much in common and my GF who introduced me to the SCA left me for a guy she met for 4 days at Pennsic, immediately after we got home(and I'd paid for the whole trip too)

I've heard stories like that. I feel you bro.

I've always been very interested in SCA activities, but looking at the groups online has always been depressing. Located at the center of dallas, and there's hardly any groups around the area that are active.

Also, dead links, dead links everywhere.

Ah, I'm getting more active again. Last night I sanded the rust off my helm and got it well oiled. Today, I continue my week long experiment to harden leather by baking it in the oven. Today's setting- 215. So far I've achieved a little bit of stiffening at 210, and nothing but some interesting odors at 190. Once I get it to work properly, I'll be making some cuir bouillie knee reinforcement for my hockey greaves. Once those work, I'll take my third run at bazubands. The previous two efforts boiled into unusuable sizes.

On the boiling of leather, the best advice I can give you is to go 2/3 up in the size you need. It just shrinks a ton, and also get someone else to try it on for shaping, as it will be hot . Normally if you are on your own, wrap the limb in at lease a heavy towel, get to fit and wrap in duct tape, to retain shape.

Regards,
Carl