Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Redbeard wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Yeah, casting was great. And I think they made the right move by moving all the kids ages up by 2-3 years.

Agree completely here. The idea that they'd be putting 13-year olds in sex scenes (as in the book, and, historically accurate too, Henry VII's mother was 13 when she was married and knocked up, gave birth at 14) is more than just a little offsetting.

The one thing that bothered me the most in the TV series...

Spoiler:

Robin Arryn still breastfeeding although clearly at least 10 years old. I've nothing against breastfeeding in general, and reading it in the books didn't have quite the impact that seeing a ten-year old actor at his mother's breast did. I'm surprised they could even film that legally, or that the actor's parents were okay with it, although I read that the actor was from Brazil so maybe their standards are different.

Yeah, that was the one character I really disliked the TV series aging. The entire point of the character is that he's a little kid and shouldn't have the amount of power he has.

I think it conveyed the point better honestly. Since Arryn's wife is bloody insane. But I agree that I disliked the name change.

Grakmar wrote:

Redbeard wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Yeah, casting was great. And I think they made the right move by moving all the kids ages up by 2-3 years.

Agree completely here. The idea that they'd be putting 13-year olds in sex scenes (as in the book, and, historically accurate too, Henry VII's mother was 13 when she was married and knocked up, gave birth at 14) is more than just a little offsetting.

The one thing that bothered me the most in the TV series...

Spoiler:

Robin Arryn still breastfeeding although clearly at least 10 years old. I've nothing against breastfeeding in general, and reading it in the books didn't have quite the impact that seeing a ten-year old actor at his mother's breast did. I'm surprised they could even film that legally, or that the actor's parents were okay with it, although I read that the actor was from Brazil so maybe their standards are different.

Yeah, that was the one character I really disliked the TV series aging. The entire point of the character is that he's a little kid and shouldn't have the amount of power he has.

Spoiler:

Changing him from 6 to 10 is a big switch, and makes the breastfeeding much more icky. It also bothers me a bit that they changed his name from Robert to Robin.

Ok, regarding the whole...



...thing. It was indeed a bit disgusting, but with regards to it being filmed, I suspect that it was a prosthetic boob. There's no way they'd have got away with it otherwise, because when you remove the fictional context (i.e. she is not his mother in real life), it would constitute a sexual act between an adult and a minor.

Grakmar wrote:
Yeah, that was the one character I really disliked the TV series aging. The entire point of the character is that he's a little kid and shouldn't have the amount of power he has.

I liked the aging. It more directly conveys how strange he is, and how insane his mother is.

Without it, she would have needed more screen time, and her scenes in the books aren't very interesting.

The breastfeeding scene was done with a prosthetic breast.

sebster wrote:We do get a few upfront views of the Mountain's bastardry as well. And a major character walking around with permanent scarring given to him by the Mountain for little reason.

The Hound isn't exactly a sympathetic character for most of the series, though. The reason I dislike Joffrey more than the Mountain likely has more to do with my strong distaste for Cersei Lannister.

sebster wrote:It's just that this is a story, and whether or not we like characters has little to do with whether or not we'd find them moral in real life. That Joffrey happens to be the kind of person that is both utterly hateful in a book and would be morally repugnant in real life just makes it all the more fun to hate him.

I've gotta say that the chapters about the people I hate tend to compel me to stay up way later than I should.

Monster Rain wrote:
The Hound isn't exactly a sympathetic character for most of the series, though. The reason I dislike Joffrey more than the Mountain likely has more to do with my strong distaste for Cersei Lannister.

I also hate her, for much the same reason I hate Joffrey. She's an idiot, and it isn't hard to see why Joffrey is the way he is. Its funny though, because much of malice Cersei directs towards Tyrion seems to center how much better he is at what she wants to be good at, while also being a hideous dwarf. He is a reminder that her beauty isn't everything.

Jaimie, while an arrogant bastard, can at least back it up. Cersei can't.

The Hound though, I don't sympathize with him so much as I pity him.

dogma wrote:Jaimie, while an arrogant bastard, can at least back it up. Cersei can't.

I've actually grown to like Jaime quite a bit.

He's an interesting character and actually has redeeming qualities unlike Cersei who is simply bonkers and completely convinced of her own intellectual prowess.

Monster Rain wrote:

dogma wrote:Jaimie, while an arrogant bastard, can at least back it up. Cersei can't.

I've actually grown to like Jaime quite a bit.

While Jamie is redeeming himself, I still hope he buys it in the end simply because of all the despicable things he's done in the past. (like throwing a young child to his potential death and stabbing the king he's sworn to protect with his life in the back!)

As for the name changes, it was done to avoid confusion, mainly by those who haven't read the books. So Robert became Robyn Arryn to avoid getting him confused with King Robert. IIRC, in season 2, Asha Greyjoy is being renamed to Yara or something along those lines to avoid confusing her with Osha.
I get why they're doing these small changes, but I just as rather they leave the names as they should be and screw the stupid morons who can't follow the difference between a crazy little kid Robert and the dead King Robert!

Jaime was morally right to kill the Mad King. The Kingsguard is an ethically flawed organization.

If you've read the books, you should recognize this:

Experiment 626 wrote:
While Jamie is redeeming himself, I still hope he buys it in the end simply because of all the despicable things he's done in the past. (like throwing a young child to his potential death and stabbing the king he's sworn to protect with his life in the back!)

Strangely, I consider both of those actions fully justifiable, but then I've been called a monster in person, so there's that.

Experiment 626 wrote:
As for the name changes, it was done to avoid confusion, mainly by those who haven't read the books. So Robert became Robyn Arryn to avoid getting him confused with King Robert.

I just assumed it was a pet name.

Amaya wrote:He's an interesting character and actually has redeeming qualities unlike Cersei who is simply bonkers and completely convinced of her own intellectual prowess.

Spoiler:

I'm mainly interested in finding out if the Hound is dead or if he has 'retired'.

Could be intentionally misleading.

Flashman wrote:

Phanatik wrote:I and my wife were disappointed by this in the first season:

Spoiler:

Sharpe lived through so much, it was a shock to See Ned Stark killed.

Regards,

Yes, Mrs Flashman was upset by that too, but that's kind of the appeal really... a tv show where MCIS doesn't operate.

EDIT - Tsk, why isn't MCIS a recognised Dakka abbreviation - Main Character Immunity Syndrome

Sean Bean cancels any Main character immunity/ plot armour

dogma wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
The Hound isn't exactly a sympathetic character for most of the series, though. The reason I dislike Joffrey more than the Mountain likely has more to do with my strong distaste for Cersei Lannister.

I also hate her, for much the same reason I hate Joffrey. She's an idiot, and it isn't hard to see why Joffrey is the way he is. Its funny though, because much of malice Cersei directs towards Tyrion seems to center how much better he is at what she wants to be good at, while also being a hideous dwarf. He is a reminder that her beauty isn't everything.

It really is justifying reading a dance with Dragons after all her shenanigans

Jaimie, while an arrogant bastard, can at least back it up. Cersei can't.

The Hound though, I don't sympathize with him so much as I pity him.

Jamie only really gets interesting as a character until after his loss and his character actually shows signs of development and diverging from the path he and Cersei were on before.
The Hound on the other hand I really like as a character and felt a lot of pity as he hadn't asked to be disfigured and have selmy ejected to gain himself a white cloak. At least he was honest and never once called himself Ser and corrected anybody that did.

Amaya wrote:Jaime was morally right to kill the Mad King. The Kingsguard is an ethically flawed organization.

Totally.

Mad King Aerys needed to go.

@Grakmar

Must have missed that. But then again Martin has been intentionally misleading before but also done crazy forshadowing so who knows.

I'm more glad for the show forcing Martin to finish his books than I am for the show itself, though it is excellent.

Monster Rain wrote:

Amaya wrote:Jaime was morally right to kill the Mad King. The Kingsguard is an ethically flawed organization.

Totally.

Mad King Aerys needed to go.

What Jamie did though was quite cowardly, stabbing him in the back.
I have alot more respect for Sandor & Ser Jorah honestly. Sandor goes out of his way to try and protect Sansa and help her deal with Joffrey's tormenting of her. Ser Jorah only commited his crime because of his total wife! He's devoted to Dany, even going so far as to spit on his royal pardon to keep her safe.

The Kingsguard as it stands now is pretty damn flawed. It's hinted that it was very different in the past when its members were actually honourable knights.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Amaya wrote:Jaime was morally right to kill the Mad King. The Kingsguard is an ethically flawed organization.

Totally.

Mad King Aerys needed to go.

What Jamie did though was quite cowardly, stabbing him in the back.
I have alot more respect for Sandor & Ser Jorah honestly. Sandor goes out of his way to try and protect Sansa and help her deal with Joffrey's tormenting of her. Ser Jorah only commited his crime because of his total wife! He's devoted to Dany, even going so far as to spit on his royal pardon to keep her safe.

The Kingsguard as it stands now is pretty damn flawed. It's hinted that it was very different in the past when its members were actually honourable knights.

The Kingsguard under Joffrey is little more than a bunch of thugs with white cloaks, and it wasn't much better under Robert with the exception of Ser Barristan Selmy. Much like the Night's Watch, the Kingsguard is a shadow of what it once was, although for different reasons.

Experiment 626 wrote:
The Kingsguard as it stands now is pretty damn flawed. It's hinted that it was very different in the past when its members were actually honourable knights.

I'm not sure. It seems mythologized to me. Reminds me of the Founders.

Amaya wrote:

Spoiler:

These so called legendary knights did nothing to stop Aerys's insanity. If they had been so great, wouldn't they have had the intelligence to cast him down and raise Rhaegar to the throne instead of blindly following orders that led to the fall of the Targareyans and civil war?

Jaime is a controversial character, but I for one love him. Just like Tyrion, he always ends up stealing the show. The Lannister brothers are deliciously quotable.
One word : trebuchet.

Grakmar, that's why he was saying the Kingsguard is flawed. At their best, they're knights in shining armour bound by blind and unconditional loyalty. It does pose the question of whether it is a good or a bad thing in cases such as Aerys' where this loyalty is undeserved.
Then again, their professional ethics consist precisely of shutting down their own judgement to serve without question, which certainly takes a form of moral strength to adhere to. I can see how exemplar they appear when seen like that.
I don't think however that someone discarding their judgement can be considered a great man. In that regard, it makes Jaime more... human, to me.

Hyd wrote:Jaime is a controversial character, but I for one love him. Just like Tyrion, he always ends up stealing the show. The Lannister brothers are deliciously quotable.

My hope for Jamie is that he dies a noble death, preferably sacrificing himself to protect Tyrion.

I think my favourite Tyrion quote so far would have to be, "I like living!"
Although his 'confession' at the Eryie in the series was quite amusing as well. ("...at least, I senscerely hope my sister ate it!")

Monster Rain wrote:The Hound isn't exactly a sympathetic character for most of the series, though.

No, but I don't think it makes it any more acceptable for his brother to have done that.

The reason I dislike Joffrey more than the Mountain likely has more to do with my strong distaste for Cersei Lannister.

I don't think anyone needs that much of a reason to hate Joffrey. He's brat with a particularly small brain. We're supposed to hate him. We're supposed to think 'the problem with monarchy is you sometimes get some real twerps running the show'.

I've gotta say that the chapters about the people I hate tend to compel me to stay up way later than I should.

Martin had a gift for writing fascinating but bad people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:The Kingsguard as it stands now is pretty damn flawed. It's hinted that it was very different in the past when its members were actually honourable knights.

I think it's something of a theme that people think that it's just right now that happens to be ugly and that things used to be more honourable, but really it's just been dirty, ugly politics since as long as there were people on Westeros.

sebster wrote:No, but I don't think it makes it any more acceptable for his brother to have done that.

After he chopped Arya's young friend in half for no good reason, I pretty much had an attitude of "feth that guy" whenever some tale of woe from his past turned up.

He didn't kill the boy out of spite either, it was simply his orders and he followed them. Life isn't valued highly by much of Westeros.