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biccat wrote:
No, not perjury. Perjury requires an oath. Simply lying to police.

Do you think that should be punished?

I think the laws regarding obstruction of justice adequately cover what should be punished.

dogma wrote:

biccat wrote:
No, not perjury. Perjury requires an oath. Simply lying to police.

Do you think that should be punished?

I think the laws regarding obstruction of justice adequately cover what should be punished.

Filing a false claim is not obstruction of justice unless there is a related prosecution going on. For example, if X is on trial for a murder that took place, the statement "X was busy raping me that day" would be obstruction of justice.

Do you think lying to the police about whether sex was consentual should be punished?

Filing a false police report is, in fact, a crime.

Bakerofish wrote:

sourclams wrote:
Objectively, I simply can't be made to care about what piece of gak people do at the margin, likely to other piece of gak people.

heres the scary part about PUA... the techniques arent designed for those people that are easy to pick up in the first place. Being a smart, well rounded girl does not make you immune from manipulation. Heck it would even make you a target.

Not me. my wife can run you over with her van in 2.8 seconds flat.

@Frazz

she married YOU. I think that should be a red flag to any PUA anywhere.

Bakerofish wrote:@Frazz

she married YOU. I think that should be a red flag to any PUA anywhere.

Oh yea, that too.
"Dad's like a big lovable gorilla that loves chocolate and guns."
-Genghis Connie.

biccat wrote:
Filing a false claim is not obstruction of justice unless there is a related prosecution going on. For example, if X is on trial for a murder that took place, the statement "X was busy raping me that day" would be obstruction of justice.

Do you think lying to the police about whether sex was consentual should be punished?

I'm aware that obstruction of justice requires that you be asked a direct question by someone investigating a crime.

I believe that you should be permitted to file a false claim, because it is extremely difficult to establish whether or not you knowingly did so; especially as regards something as emotionally traumatizing as rape. Further I cannot see any scenario in which making such a thing a crime does anything other than increase the rate at which rape goes unreported, or expands the actual work load on the justice system. As it is, any false claim of rape that makes it to trial will almost certainly see the claimant commit an existing crime in the course of pursuing the case.

Further, if you criminalize making a false claim, anyone who makes such a claim has a clear incentive to continue the lie, extending any prosecution of the alleged crime.

Women are more likely to comit domestic violence than men. They're also more likely to be pyschologically abusive.
But yeah, no excuse for being a dick.

Come on now, chaps - I think we all engage in subterfuge in order to appeal to women sexually.

Hell, if they knew what we were really thinking...




....Sweet lord, it doesn't bear thinking about!

Albatross wrote:Come on now, chaps - I think we all engage in subterfuge in order to appeal to women sexually.

Hell, if they knew what we were really thinking...

....Sweet lord, it doesn't bear thinking about!

yeah but what these guys do and the motivations for them to do so are not, or shouldnt be commonplace:

I quote: "The masculine attitude and lack of care these women put into their style or hair irritated me, so I made it a point to **** them and never call again.”

this is way beyond "ill put on some nice clothes and cologne to get a date" and more in the realm of misogyny

Joey wrote:Women are more likely to comit domestic violence than men. They're also more likely to be pyschologically abusive.
But yeah, no excuse for being a dick.

Men use violence to abuse more and inflict abuse more often, women more likely to be arrested for it:

http://insciences.org/article.php?article_id=6628

One out of every three homeless women is homeless as a result of leaving an abusive relationship; in fact, there's a surprisingly likely chance that they'll be evicted because of a zero tolerance policy towards crime (even though they're the victim, not the perpetrator).

http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/housing%20paper.4.pdf

Girls are more likely to be recipients of child abuse:

http://www.medicinenet.com/child_abuse/page2.htm

So how are mutually abusive relationships dealt with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Joey wrote:Women are more likely to comit domestic violence than men. They're also more likely to be pyschologically abusive.
But yeah, no excuse for being a dick.

Men use violence to abuse more and inflict abuse more often, women more likely to use a weapon, which might be why more are arrested for it:

http://insciences.org/article.php?article_id=6628

Just saying.

... use a weapon for self defense.

Apparently defending yourself from domestic abuse is domestic abuse.

Melissia wrote:... use a weapon for self defense.

Apparently defending yourself from domestic abuse is domestic abuse.

It's definitely more likely to lead to an arrest on-the-spot.

Look at it this way. Man hits Woman, Woman stabs man in retaliation/self-defence, Police arrive. Which of the two is going to be viewed with more alarm from the officers?

*shrug* Either way, the article itself said that female victims of abuse most often use weapons to protect themselves from a violent partner.

Unfortunately in many cases, wielding a knife is not going to be viewed kindly by any officers on the scene.

EDIT: I'm not condemning women using weapons to defend themselves, just saying this is a possible explanation for the arrests.

Pick-up "artists" are just a bunch of shallow douches, calling them a hate group is given them too much credit than they're worth.

And Mens Rights groups...that depends on if they're fighting for equality (Fathers 4 Justice) for fighting against any and all forms of feminism.

Hazardous Harry wrote:Just saying.

You're not going to win this.

Men are more abusive than women, everyone knows it. Any statistics that suggest the opposite are invalid.

dogma wrote:I'm aware that obstruction of justice requires that you be asked a direct question by someone investigating a crime.

Given this knowledge - that a false allegation of rape would almost never meet the standard for obstruction of justice - you still think that obstruction of justice provides a sufficient punishment for the false allegation?

Do you think that the real victim - the accused who had their life virtually destroyed by the false accusation - deserves some sort of state-administered justice, if only as a deterrent?

@biccat

umm... more abusive how? by sheer number or the severity of the act?

because if youre going by sheer numbers here, you have to consider that fact that being an abused male carries a pretty heavy social and cultural stigma...especially outside the US so chances are, reports of abuse on men by women are under reported

It's also considered shameful for the woman who gets abused too in many areas.

yes abuse is shameful, whether the receiver or the giver

whats your point?

That it is underreported regardless of gender.

so how do we know who abuseswho more?

Bakerofish wrote:so how do we know who abuseswho more?

Because we don't just look at crime rates?

humor me please. How do we know who abuses who more?

We agreed that instances of abuse are under reported by both genders so I'm curious as to how one can definitively say that any gender abuses another more.

The studies shown so far seem to be "western" centric as well.

I'm with bakerofish.

I'd like to see this data.

biccat wrote:Filing a false claim is not obstruction of justice unless there is a related prosecution going on. For example, if X is on trial for a murder that took place, the statement "X was busy raping me that day" would be obstruction of justice.

Do you think lying to the police about whether sex was consentual should be punished?

While I'm all for the idea of making our laws as clear and unambiguous as possible, there are simply some issues that will really require prosecutorial discretion. The intent is the real thing here, and it's in situations like a date rape, intent is very hard to discern. Is it unreasonable to accept that it's possible for two people to have two very internally valid but differing recollections of events that occurred, especially if one or both were intoxicated? If so, is there a remedy better than prosecutorial discretion?

Are false rape allegations so prevalent and unchecked that we legitimately need new legislation to address this, when there are already ample civil and criminal statutes to cover these issues? Perhaps it would be better to exercise some of these already on the books laws, instead. I have no idea how Crystal Mangum escaped prosecution, for example, but I'm pretty sure that not only should she have, that there were already sufficient mechanisms in place to make that happen if the political will existed for it.

Bakerofish wrote:humor me please

Information from social workers, psychologists, and so on also matters, as does information gathered from surveys, as well as from information garnered from civil courts (such as restraining orders and such).

For example, the National Crime Victimization Survey indicated that younger women (especially those with little prior contact with the criminal justice system) are less likely to call police after, for example. That same report indicated that "behavior that is likely to violate most state and federal criminal and civil (protective order) statutes is typically perpetrated by males."

Monster Rain wrote:I'd like to see this data.

Ok.

As the fates would have it, I'm watching the "Datalore" episode at this very moment.

Unless you knew that somehow. In which case, come on in and have a beer.