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What? I thought it was a well known fact that all of GW's paints are made from the bodily fluids of a thousand daemons. Or was it neckbeards? Meh, bout' the same really.

Anyway, on a serious note, I've noticed that Devlan mud is a tad pungent as well. I haven't noticed anything growing on my models however, so it's probably nothing.
Was the sample taken from the communal pot? That would explain the bacteria.
It will also explain why I always use my own paints and brushes, and ensure that the pot has fresh water when I am painting at the store.

On topic, no, the paint sampled was not from a communal pot.
Nor will the next five samples be.
There is NO reason for life to just magically appear in a pot of paint. This isn't primordial ooze. It's paint. Paint plus heat =/= life.

It is highly unlikely that the GW paints are manufactured in a bacteria vacume or even potted in a sterile environment however a certain level of hygiene should exist... I am interested in the results aswell however a certain amount of bacteria is probably to be found in all the paints GW sell, and most likley in most other gaming acrilic paints, not sure if bacteria or viruses could exist in oil based paints as they eed a certain moisture content to survive....

Hang on a second.

Now, I don't know exactly what ingredients go into GW washes. But due to their non toxic nature, and the main carrier of the pigment being water, surely you are pretty much bound to get bacteria in any non sterile water based solution? If there were no bacteria found in it, then wouldn't it indicate it having some level of toxicity?

Besides, having worked for a paint manufacturer, I do know that a paint factory is far from a sterile working environment. Part of their QA process is also not just making sure the paint applies the way it should and pigments cover the way they should, it also checks that there are no (or at least safe) levels of toxic elements in the paint. This also applies to bacteria. Considering the target market for GW products is mainly children, I know for a fact that the process for testing the paints will be a million times more stringent than for anything else the company makes due to the possibility of ingestion.

If there were harmful bacteria present in the washes, you can bet your annual salary that they would have been very rapidly taken off the shelves a very, very long time ago. That's one lawsuit that no manufacturer could afford.

How many of us have been using the washes and paints and licking the tips of our brushes? Nearly all of us I would bet, and for how long? I have never (and indeed know of nobody who has) succumbed to a bacterial infection, or even a slightly dodgy stomach due to ingestion of the washes and paints.

Although it's interesting to know, I do not believe that it is anywhere near as alarming as people are making out.

I have no idea what to think about it, but I'm REALLY interested in the results that your lab sends back!

Meh. I found some mould growing in my pot of red once. I scooped it out and am still using the paint to this day.

The_Happy_Pig wrote: But due to their non toxic nature, and the main carrier of the pigment being water, surely you are pretty much bound to get bacteria in any non sterile water based solution? If there were no bacteria found in it, then wouldn't it indicate it having some level of toxicity?

Not if you use up to grade ingredients, like distilled water vs tap. There is no bacteria found in rubbing alcohol, soda, or snow globes, all of which are non toxic water solutions. Why should paint be special?

The_Happy_Pig wrote:Besides, having worked for a paint manufacturer, I do know that a paint factory is far from a sterile working environment. I know for a fact that the process for testing the paints will be a million times more stringent than for anything else the company makes due to the possibility of ingestion.

Slight hyperbole there. I'll give you that most industrial sites are far from sterile.
But you know what isn't sterile for sure? My pot of Devlan Mud, straight from GW.
If its tested, and passing for only trace elements of benign bacteria, but is a medium that supports their growth, that is a problem for me. Bacteria are alive, and living things excrete. Tons of little microorganisms living in a pot of paint are eating something. And then taking a dump.
THAT is what worries me.

Archim3des wrote:
But you know what isn't sterile for sure? My pot of Devlan Mud, straight from GW.

I understand where you are coming from, but really, you bought a water based solution of natural pigments that was not produced or packaged in a sterile environment, kept in a container which is not hermetically sealed, and stored in non sterile conditions for gods know how long and then you are surprised because you found bacteria in it?

The bacteria are clearly eating something, possibly the pigments, possibly something else, and excreting. That would probably explain the smell when you open it. However, I have had a jar of Devlin mud unopened on my desk for a couple of months. I opened it the other day, and there were no biofilms or colonies of bacteria on the surface of the wash or on the inside of the pot and lid that would indicate that they are eating the pigments (or whatever they find so delicious) and multiplying at an alarming rate. Considering that we know that bacteria multiply exponentially and over a short space of time, why do the pots which are stored at room temperature not get consumed within days?

Surely using examples like rubbing alcohol (When we know that alcohol is harmful to bacteria), Snowglobes (Water with no source of food for bacteria in, so not even a solution) and soda (Which is produced to be ingested so will probably be either pasteurised, irradiated or some other process which would inhibit bacterial growth while being stored in airtight containers before consumption) is a bit poor.

I take it that you have tested the other brands of washes out there and found them completely sterile?

Acryllics are natural pigments?

I could load some into some sterile bacterial growth media and put it on an incubator to see if Dakka wants?

Looking forward to seeing the results!

Archim3des wrote:Acryllics are natural pigments?

Acrylic is just the medium for the pigments. The pigments is what gives the acrylic its colour, and its source varies depending on colour - could be metals, flowers, or pixie dust depending on what colour is required. So it is possible that Devlan Mud contains organic pigments.

I am confused as to why this is so important. You are not supposed to eat/drink it. It is intended to be put on models.

Archim3des wrote:I will post it here for sure.
Protoman, I do the exact same. I went and consumed half a bottle of listerine after seeing that slide.

It's a long running joke that certain GW paints smell, and if this is indeed the reason, I'm ordering another batch, having it certified mailed, then when it comes, having it remailed, unopened, to the same lab. Videotaping the getting the package from a federal employee, attaching the ready made certified mail sticker, and handing it back to the mailman.
Unassailable legally, and inexcusable morally if GW is sending out bacteria from a tainted batch.
Actually screw it I just ordered five more pots. Expediting this process.

I smell a Class action coming on, . This thread might even stop the runaway bandwagon of Finecast, as at least poor FC models don't have the potential to make you seriously ill.

Very interesting and I commend you actually taking it upon yourself to investigate. I have always just assumed it was smelly because of a compound and generally don't use it because of that. It is very concerning.

Maybe it contains Sepia pigments, from the Sepia cuttlefish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepia_(color)

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I am confused as to why this is so important. You are not supposed to eat/drink it. It is intended to be put on models.

Because it's not possible, at all, for these bacteria to be airborne.
Plus there's a difference between not being good for you, and being actively bad for you. Licking your brushes isn't good for you, but licking your brushes that are laced with disease causing bacteria is actively bad for you.

Smoking a cigarette vs smoking a cigarette laced with arsenic.

Ok so don't lick the brush.

All I am saying is there are alot of bacteria out there. But we have an immune system to fight it. Thats what it is there for. I am sure that if there truely is this bacteria that the OP found it is not harmful to us.

How long has the washes been out? I know many people that lick their brushes. I still have yet to see anyone of them get sick from them.

Or have anyone be able to attribute it to the wash, you mean.

There's no way you could tell me with a straight face you knew what made you sick the last time, unless it was very specificlu caused by something.

By sick I mean like deathly ill. That is what the op is talking about right? Those type of bacteria.

I actually don't get sick. I get a bad case once a year around winter time. So yes. But I also don't lick my brush either.

I feel i should mention one thing, Bacteria live in everything everywhere at all times and to be fair to the paint its warm or room temperature moist and dark in the pot which if im not mistaken means its a breeding ground for bacteria to thrive so i don't think its purposeful it would appear to be more that GW make the paint pot it and sell it and the little critters move on in of their own accord like a Hobo moving into a box..... simple....

was planning on buying some devland mud tomorrow, i can also put a dish or two in the incubator for the fun...

i would not be surprised if something grows on, but to be utterly dangerous...

i'll give a try

J

While we're waiting for the results of the wash test to come back, I invite any and all of you to take some samples from various places around your kitchen and culture them, then test those.

Or better yet, don't. If critters in your paint bother you, you do not want to know what's growing on your food preparation surfaces. Just rest assured that your body is equipped to deal with that, and worse.

I do not get why this is a big deal. I mean Devlan Mud is god juice, what more do you want from it?

n00ber wrote:While we're waiting for the results of the wash test to come back, I invite any and all of you to take some samples from various places around your kitchen and culture them, then test those.

Or better yet, don't. If critters in your paint bother you, you do not want to know what's growing on your food preparation surfaces. Just rest assured that your body is equipped to deal with that, and worse.

Truer words could never be said better.

Phototoxin wrote:I could load some into some sterile bacterial growth media and put it on an incubator to see if Dakka wants?

What like old school agar plates ?
you know you need to do that !!

http://www.cracked.com/article_17495_6-items-you-touch-everyday-that-are-filthier-than-toilet.html

Cracked.com says hi.

In short, these items have more bacteria than your toilet seat:

1) Soap
2) Money
3) Laundry
4) Computer Keyboard
5) Phone
6) Mouth

In all fairness though i think its safe to say that unless it originated from the natural pigments then it almost certainly was transfered to your pot somewhere along the line and went mad for it in the ideal conditions.

I think this is also just for fun too, guys. I'm definitely not concerned with Devlan miracle.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:I am confused as to why this is so important. You are not supposed to eat/drink it. It is intended to be put on models.

Seconded, unless the thrust is that the bacteria is in such a concentration, or of such a type, as to which it could no longer be considered nontoxic? I'm not clear what the problem is even if it is loaded with bacteria, so long as it does not alter it's properties as paint while remaining nontoxic as labelled. It's certainly neither labelled nor implied to be sterile.

What type of odor are we talking about here? A musty, mold-like smell?

I have a couple Vallejo model colors that smell...not in a bad way. Khaki has a strong earthy or dirt smell and Sand Yellow has a citrus smell. The smell is consistant across every bottle purchased so I've always attributed it to the pigments...could that not be the case with Devlin Mud or is it "off" in some way?

Geez, guess I'll start thinning my paint with Lysol.