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I do not care! I would still use my precious Devlan Mud if I had to jam the brush down into the pot and abduct it, drop by resistant drop.

n00ber wrote:While we're waiting for the results of the wash test to come back, I invite any and all of you to take some samples from various places around your kitchen and culture them, then test those.

Or better yet, don't. If critters in your paint bother you, you do not want to know what's growing on your food preparation surfaces. Just rest assured that your body is equipped to deal with that, and worse.

This.

Busybody nerds with too much time on their hands is what this is.

n00ber wrote:While we're waiting for the results of the wash test to come back, I invite any and all of you to take some samples from various places around your kitchen and culture them, then test those.

Or better yet, don't. If critters in your paint bother you, you do not want to know what's growing on your food preparation surfaces. Just rest assured that your body is equipped to deal with that, and worse.

That's right. You really don't want to know what you're taking in from public restrooms, fast food joints or co-workers fresh from a vacation in some third world resort staffed by locals who most assuredly do not have health insurance. I'm not worried, I practically never get sick. I've never had a flu shot, and I've only have the flu once, and that was waaay back in 1978. (And even that wasn't so bad, I got a week off from school and all the NyQuil I could drink! )

balsak_da_mighty wrote:

n00ber wrote:While we're waiting for the results of the wash test to come back, I invite any and all of you to take some samples from various places around your kitchen and culture them, then test those.

Or better yet, don't. If critters in your paint bother you, you do not want to know what's growing on your food preparation surfaces. Just rest assured that your body is equipped to deal with that, and worse.

Truer words could never be said better.

Well actually no, your body is equipped to deal with most bacteria, but multiple infections, combined with viruses and other complications and your body can be overcome. You wash your hands after the toilet, wash your kitchen utensils/ hands/ food preparation surfaces to minimise risk.

You could apply the same logic to Body Armour, it protects from most Bullets, but it doesn't mean you should actively and brazenly walk out in the line of fire and say "Haha, this will protect me, I am not worried". Body Armour reduces the risk but does not eliminate it, it is a sensible precaution, like washing your hands, bathing/showering regularly, keeping a reasonably clean home.

I do agree that there is a point, that being overly-fastidious about hygiene and cleanliness is detrimental, as it causes children to grow up with under-developed immune systems.

So let everyone play in the mud, get dirty and be exposed, but shower once a day, and wash your hands before food and after the toilet.

A paint pot full of bacteria is an unnecessary, risk. There is no reason for a sealed paint pot to be full of bacteria. I don't open canned food and expect a smell of bacteria to overpower the smell of food. There is something not quite right, but following the i'll bury my head in the sand and trust my immune system is not a real solution either.

mwnciboo wrote:A paint pot full of bacteria is an unnecessary, risk. There is no reason for a sealed paint pot to be full of bacteria. I don't open canned food and expect a smell of bacteria to overpower the smell of food. There is something not quite right, but following the i'll bury my head in the sand and trust my immune system is not a real solution either.

Thank you, mwnciboo!

This may turn out to be nothing more than an interesting experiment. But there's certainly no harm in checking!

It's the "unecessary risk" part that is the key here. I worked at a car wash in high school where they ended up changing out what we were using to clean with. Turned out it had a carcinogen . Yes, just about everything can be, but why gripe about someone doing a test on something that, literally, "smells fishy" to find out what's in it?

I applaud the OP for doing so, and like I said, if nothing else it will be a very interesting experiment!

As to this:

heartserenade wrote:1) Soap
2) Money
3) Laundry
4) Computer Keyboard
5) Phone
6) Mouth

For ALL of those (assuming it wasn't my own soap/laundry) but particularly money, keyboard, phone, and mouth, I would normally wash my hands/mouth after touching someone else's that I didn't know well. These are common items to pick up germs off of. So saying that they have tons of bacteria on them is pretty much just confirming what most people already know, and take precautions against during things like flu season.

(Although, I love your avatar )

Let's let the OP do this test and see what happens... no point jumping to conclusions about the test before the science is even done! Maybe it's completely harmless bacteria in the amounts present, maybe not... it certainly doesn't hurt to check!

mwnciboo wrote:
A paint pot full of bacteria is an unnecessary, risk. There is no reason for a sealed paint pot to be full of bacteria. I don't open canned food and expect a smell of bacteria to overpower the smell of food.

Where are you getting your paint pots from? None of the ones I buy are sealed. They are small plastic pots that are merely closed, if you think that the closures on the GW paint pots count as a seal, then you're very sadly mistaken . I don't use a a tin opener to get into my pot of wash. And canned food you'll find is in a can that has been treated to inhibit bacterial growth, airtight, and the food inside has also be treated or prepared in such a way to stop bacteria from growing. If you recall that famous incident back in the 70s when botulism was found present in canned food, it caused the preparation and packaging of canned food to be made a lot more hygienic.

I'll point you back to my earlier post:

The_Happy_Pig wrote:
I understand where you are coming from, but really, you bought a water based solution of natural pigments that was not produced or packaged in a sterile environment, kept in a container which is not hermetically sealed, and stored in non sterile conditions for gods know how long.

Like I said, I find this interesting, and of course I'd like to find out what is living in there. But I don't find this in any way alarming or surprising. I do think that this lacks objectivity though. Why are we just looking at Devlan mud? Yes it was found there, but why isn't the OP testing all the washes from all the brands to find out if this is just particular to Devlan Mud or if it's something that is present in all washes as a result of the manufacturing, packaging or storage process before going on the attack? Why not wait for results before going off half cocked on some kind of tabloidesque crusade?

mwnciboo wrote:

A paint pot full of bacteria is an unnecessary, risk. There is no reason for a sealed paint pot to be full of bacteria. I don't open canned food and expect a smell of bacteria to overpower the smell of food. There is something not quite right, but following the i'll bury my head in the sand and trust my immune system is not a real solution either.

You're really worried about this, aren't you? Okay. Don't drink your paint. Wash your hands before eating. If there was a problem, it's now been solved.

I'd bet that your keyboard, phone, door handles, and indeed the inside of your mouth are populated by more and nastier critters than what we're going to find in that paint. Those are all well documented if you're curious.

Let's not turn this into a debate about the over-sterilization of modern society or draw poor analogies about it. I'm not saying any of that. What I'm saying is that there are far more important things to worry about. I'm quite curious what the OP will find and I applaud his efforts, but it's only a clinical interest. If the stuff was making me sick, I think that I would have noticed it by now. If it's not making me sick, why should I worry about it, particularly when there are so many other dirty things around me that are also not making me sick?

I....I put my brushes......in my mouth......oh God.......

Start of the Tyranid invasion, and we shall soon crown Morgan Freeman as our God Emperor!

n00ber wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:

A paint pot full of bacteria is an unnecessary, risk. There is no reason for a sealed paint pot to be full of bacteria. I don't open canned food and expect a smell of bacteria to overpower the smell of food. There is something not quite right, but following the i'll bury my head in the sand and trust my immune system is not a real solution either.

You're really worried about this, aren't you? Okay. Don't drink your paint. Wash your hands before eating. If there was a problem, it's now been solved.

I'd bet that your keyboard, phone, door handles, and indeed the inside of your mouth are populated by more and nastier critters than what we're going to find in that paint. Those are all well documented if you're curious.

Let's not turn this into a debate about the over-sterilization of modern society or draw poor analogies about it. I'm not saying any of that. What I'm saying is that there are far more important things to worry about. I'm quite curious what the OP will find and I applaud his efforts, but it's only a clinical interest. If the stuff was making me sick, I think that I would have noticed it by now. If it's not making me sick, why should I worry about it, particularly when there are so many other dirty things around me that are also not making me sick?

I've made my point more than clear above. What you choose to believe is not the same as what Health and Safety, Hygiene and public health legislation says (certainly in the UK) I don't know about US Law but as GW is a British Company you can certainly rest assured the HSE will intervene if there is even the hint of a problem.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/

Believe me whether you agree or not, the Law is the Law. British industrial Hygiene standards are pretty high, I applaud the OP for taking the time to enquire. Saying there are much worse things to worry about is an exponential argument (why worry about Bacteria, worry about Iran, why worry about Iran theres an asteroid coming!). If we can change something for the better no matter how small, that is progress.

Grimtuff wrote:

n00ber wrote:While we're waiting for the results of the wash test to come back, I invite any and all of you to take some samples from various places around your kitchen and culture them, then test those.

Or better yet, don't. If critters in your paint bother you, you do not want to know what's growing on your food preparation surfaces. Just rest assured that your body is equipped to deal with that, and worse.

This.

Busybody nerds with too much time on their hands is what this is.

What? Just like finding the time to post this on an internet forum? lol The same could be said about you.

Anyway, I don't think it really bothers people like a lot of people are suggesting - I am just interested as to what it is, if anything at all. I know feth all about bacteria and biology so assumed the OP had his reasons for doing this other than being a 'busybody nerd'. It's amusing how people can get so massively stressed out about it.

Could be a cure for cancer in there!

Will be interesting to see what type of bacteria are in the pots. I do expect a follow up of different GW paints and some other brands tho!

The_Happy_Pig wrote:
Where are you getting your paint pots from? None of the ones I buy are sealed.

Try using P3 Paints. Maybe GW needs to go back to the old style pots? Maybe it doesn't would be interesting to test different ones against each other.

n00ber wrote:You're really worried about this, aren't you? Okay. Don't drink your paint. Wash your hands before eating. If there was a problem, it's now been solved.

I get that you're not interested, but this is about what might or might not be growing in Devlan Mud... not hygiene 101!

Not trying to come off as offensive here, but I work in a lab and there are some pretty nasty critters that we treat as if they're live (although they're thankfully heat-killed in the lab I most often work in). I really don't need the advice on hygiene / hand-washing from a stranger on the internet . What I would be interested in, though, is a lab result test of what exactly is in Devlan Mud, which is why I find this thread interesting!

Can we agree that what is in there is Probably harmless, and move the discussion on?

Interesting thread, I always wondered why devlan mud had that peculiar smell. Won't stop me from using it though, as it's quite good!

RiTides wrote:
For ALL of those (assuming it wasn't my own soap/laundry) but particularly money, keyboard, phone, and mouth, I would normally wash my hands/mouth after touching someone else's that I didn't know well. These are common items to pick up germs off of. So saying that they have tons of bacteria on them is pretty much just confirming what most people already know, and take precautions against during things like flu season.

(Although, I love your avatar )

Let's let the OP do this test and see what happens... no point jumping to conclusions about the test before the science is even done! Maybe it's completely harmless bacteria in the amounts present, maybe not... it certainly doesn't hurt to check!

I love my avatar, too. Like how that little girl and that kitten love each other.

I'm interested in the results, too, but not in a "OMG WHY DO WE HAVE BACTERIA GW?" way. I mean, I'm sure that a lot of other paints would have bacteria in them (that's why I suggested to the OP to test other washes and paints to have a comparison).

To clarify guys, I'm no germaphobe. Just curious as to why there was so much. It wasn't like there were a few floaters, I'm talking these bugs were having a kegger.
There seems to be a request for testing other paints of different tints and brands. Testing is costly, and hey, if you're that curious you can chip in or do it yourself.
On the plus side, I ordered a microscope with a camera built in for the same cost as a lab analysis. I might not be able to tell you the type of bacteria, but I could swing taking some pics of different paints.

RiTides wrote:
I get that you're not interested, but this is about what might or might not be growing in Devlan Mud... not hygiene 101!

If that's what you got out of my post, you completely misunderstood me. In fact, it wasn't even directed at you.

As I stated in the very post that you quoted, I am interested in what will be found there, but I'm not worried about it. Even if it were dangerous, it's very easily handled - hence the quick primer on hygiene. And again, it's not exactly like we humans live in a sanitary world.

heartserenade wrote:I'm interested in the results, too, but not in a "OMG WHY DO WE HAVE BACTERIA GW?" way.

n00ber wrote:As I stated in the very post that you quoted, I am interested in what will be found there, but I'm not worried about it.

Okay, we're agreed then (and I'll chalk this up to not catching tone through text)

@ Archim3des- Bummer you won't know what kind of bacteria it is, that was what I was most interested in. However, just knowing quantity would be cool, if compared to another paint- but I'm not sure how you'd gauge that just looking at it under a microscope.

At the very least this may provide an answer as to why some people's washes smell so bad.

Well I guess my tradition of knocking back a bottle of god juice might be up for question

I can't wait to see what the lab shows. I have always wondered why it smelt so bad.

At the OP, do you know about when the original tests on Devlan Mud are due? I'd love to know the results as well.

While I wouldn't stop using Devlan Mud, I might stop putting my brushes in my mouth to taper the tips if I knew the active ingredient was E.coli.

Should be by later today.

The_Happy_Pig wrote:

Archim3des wrote:
But you know what isn't sterile for sure? My pot of Devlan Mud, straight from GW.

I understand where you are coming from, but really, you bought a water based solution of natural pigments that was not produced or packaged in a sterile environment, kept in a container which is not hermetically sealed, and stored in non sterile conditions for gods know how long and then you are surprised because you found bacteria in it?

The bacteria are clearly eating something, possibly the pigments, possibly something else, and excreting. That would probably explain the smell when you open it. However, I have had a jar of Devlin mud unopened on my desk for a couple of months. I opened it the other day, and there were no biofilms or colonies of bacteria on the surface of the wash or on the inside of the pot and lid that would indicate that they are eating the pigments (or whatever they find so delicious) and multiplying at an alarming rate. Considering that we know that bacteria multiply exponentially and over a short space of time, why do the pots which are stored at room temperature not get consumed within days?

This could explain the variences in colors.

I too am very interested in this.

As a commission painter I go through a lot of tubs of wash, and every single one them started off smelling fine. Before long the smells turned into some invariably dubious aromas, and all of them end up utterly stinking. Some do indeed smell worse than others, but the stench forms in all of them eventually nonetheless.

I have also noticed a correlation between wash performance and age/stench too. The physical properties alter with age, and I don't mean that they are simply thickening/drying out as all water based paints do. They progressively stop behaving 'correctly', as if the binders are no longer functioning correctly, and as well as feeling wrong upon application they no longer pool or disperse properly, pigment is held in irregular suspension etc. They just gradually start sucking, for want of a better phrase.

Whatever you want to chalk it up to, GW washes do 'go off', and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the two problems are related.

Orki- Wow, that's really interesting... a correlation definitely seems possible.

This post is becoming a bit to silly. Each human has 10x more bacterial cells than human cells and a big proportion are pathogens and will harm you if they were allowed to grow without control. But you also a immune system and without bacteria you will most likely dying early of auto immune diseases, there are some studies in mice that show this.
Why are you so worried about bacteria I don't know but again paints are checked for toxicity and organic contaminants before a company is even allowed to sell them. If it would be danger they wouldn't be able to sell it. Remember the original Les washes, he had to stop selling them because the cost of testing to market them was too high.

I just drank a paint pot of delvin mud. I will let you all know the results in the morning.

Lord Scythican wrote:I just drank a paint pot of delvin mud. I will let you all know the results in the morning.

But if you die how will we know?

Nom