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ntin wrote:Not sure how usefull this is to the Chaos Marines but for Chaos Daemons that fire power is attractive. Kind of worried though it has no deep strike rules for Chaos Daemon so does it set up all alone?

It should still deepstrike-everything taken in a Daemon army is forced to deep strike. So the codex rule includes this unit, if it's part of a codex: Daemons force.

Just more overpriced crap with ridiculous rules from forgeworld. 8 str 8 shots? Its like having a whole squadron of psyriflemen. No one is going to agree to play against that.

Kevlar wrote:Just more overpriced crap with ridiculous rules from forgeworld. 8 str 8 shots? Its like having a whole squadron of psyriflemen. No one is going to agree to play against that.

You're not really looking at the points costs are you? It has BS3, and the weapons aren't twin linked, not to mention it's near 200+ points! How can it have Ridiculous rules while being overcosted?

Ah well, it's experimental, hope it's done up proper when it's actually made.

Kevlar wrote:Just more overpriced crap with ridiculous rules from forgeworld. 8 str 8 shots? Its like having a whole squadron of psyriflemen. No one is going to agree to play against that.

More like 2 psylemen...at BS3 with no rerolls.

200pts + is expensive for a dread, considering an Iron Clad would hump it in combat, granted it has to get there first

It’s not a good tactic IMO to engage an enemy Dreadnaught/Equivalent with the Decimator/Dreadnaught/Defiler. It’s a waste to have a hammer unit engage an enemy hammer unit.

Dreadnaughts and the like IMO are best used when harassing enemy APCs as well as troops and the Decimator seems perfect for this (due to Siege Claws and multishot weaponry). Dreadnaughts are also a good distraction unit and considering the size of the Decimator as well as the affect Siege Claws and Butcher Cannons have on APCs, a lot of players will make it a priority target (leaving the rest of your army safer).

Whilst the rules could do with a little more tweaking, I like the fact that there are a lot of viable configurations. The configuration I like the most so far is Dual claws + MoT. A Decimator with dual claws and MoT could dump 2 Str6 flamer templates on a unit before dishing out 4-5 attacks in CC with re-rollable “to wound” rolls. The configuration is even more interesting is when you consider the affect flame template weapons have on embarked passengers in the leaked 6E ruleset (which means the Decimator could inflict several heavy flamer wounds on an embarked unit via it’s Siege Claws and heavy flamers).

Kevlar wrote:Just more overpriced crap with ridiculous rules from forgeworld. 8 str 8 shots? Its like having a whole squadron of psyriflemen. No one is going to agree to play against that.

All those GK players can cry me a river. While it would be ideal if GW would not print crap like that, since they've made the decision to do it, it's only fair that everyone be able to. Otherwise there's just no reason for chaos or other older armies to ever play against the newer stuff.

A pair of Butcher Cannons and no other upgrades actually isn't so bad. Statistically, it's better than a Psyfleman, and has some additional protection that the latter doesn't. Its AV is a little disappointing given its size, but it's otherwise not that shabby. I might get a couple for my Daemons army, which would surely welcome the firepower - just one of these things has more ranged anti-light/medium vehicle firepower than most Daemon armies out there.

As for having I3, I don't think it should really be going up against DCCW-armed walkers in the first place. It only has S8 and no DCCW itself, so I'd only be using it against lighter transports anyway.

The only pity is that the only combination worth taking is the "Butcherman" loadout.

Cheexsta wrote:A pair of Butcher Cannons and no other upgrades actually isn't so bad. Statistically, it's better than a Psyfleman, and has some additional protection that the latter doesn't. Its AV is a little disappointing given its size, but it's otherwise not that shabby. I might get a couple for my Daemons army, which would surely welcome the firepower - just one of these things has more ranged anti-light/medium vehicle firepower than most Daemon armies out there.

As for having I3, I don't think it should really be going up against DCCW-armed walkers in the first place. It only has S8 and no DCCW itself, so I'd only be using it against lighter transports anyway.

The only pity is that the only combination worth taking is the "Butcherman" loadout.

Actually, its claw gives it 2D6 penetration and ignores armor saves, making it on par with the DCCW. It also gets rerolls to wound, making them technically better than DCCW against models with a T value.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:A pair of Butcher Cannons and no other upgrades actually isn't so bad. Statistically, it's better than a Psyfleman, and has some additional protection that the latter doesn't. Its AV is a little disappointing given its size, but it's otherwise not that shabby. I might get a couple for my Daemons army, which would surely welcome the firepower - just one of these things has more ranged anti-light/medium vehicle firepower than most Daemon armies out there.

As for having I3, I don't think it should really be going up against DCCW-armed walkers in the first place. It only has S8 and no DCCW itself, so I'd only be using it against lighter transports anyway.

The only pity is that the only combination worth taking is the "Butcherman" loadout.

Actually, its claw gives it 2D6 penetration and ignores armor saves, making it on par with the DCCW. It also gets rerolls to wound, making them technically better than DCCW against models with a T value.

Not to mention it's actually got a pretty decently cost AP3 weapon that can actually hurt marines, that's actually a surprising rarity when Hellguns, Thousand sons Inferno bolts and other AP3 things are overpriced.

And the Soul Exploder thing is nice too, two ordnance shots with rending and 5" blast.

I think it looks ugly, especially there was one converted by lemming(something) long ago out of defiler parts which looks just as good

GreatGunz wrote:

Kevlar wrote:Just more overpriced crap with ridiculous rules from forgeworld. 8 str 8 shots? Its like having a whole squadron of psyriflemen. No one is going to agree to play against that.

All those GK players can cry me a river. While it would be ideal if GW would not print crap like that, since they've made the decision to do it, it's only fair that everyone be able to. Otherwise there's just no reason for chaos or other older armies to ever play against the newer stuff.

Oh I agree with you, Chaos needs everything they can get. Its just that Forgeworld isn't the answer. Until I see butcher cannons in codex:chaos space marines I won't buy one. And anyone who wants to play one against me is going to be using it as a twin linked auto cannon.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, its claw gives it 2D6 penetration and ignores armor saves, making it on par with the DCCW. It also gets rerolls to wound, making them technically better than DCCW against models with a T value.

The armor penetration is 2d6 and pick the highest, not 2d6.

I like the heavy flamer hits on embarked passengers. The seige dreadnought's is a little better, but this one is still fun!

The Decimator sucks outside the nurgle butcherman configuration. Even then it is of somewhat questionable use since you pay well over 200 points for an AV12 walker which will never ever get any cover at all and therefore has to rely solely on it's daemonic vigour rule.

kronk wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, its claw gives it 2D6 penetration and ignores armor saves, making it on par with the DCCW. It also gets rerolls to wound, making them technically better than DCCW against models with a T value.

The armor penetration is 2d6 and pick the highest, not 2d6.

I like the heavy flamer hits on embarked passengers. The seige dreadnought's is a little better, but this one is still fun!

Oh really? Ah damn. There goes my soulstorm/Claw combo :/

KingDeath wrote:The Decimator sucks outside the nurgle butcherman configuration. Even then it is of somewhat questionable use since you pay well over 200 points for an AV12 walker which will never ever get any cover at all and therefore has to rely solely on it's daemonic vigour rule.

Why the nurgle mark?

Survivability. Better chance of coming back and/or shrugging off damage with Unholy Vigor.

I look at this and see

What is that? I've never seen that before.

kronk wrote:What is that? I've never seen that before.

It appears to be one of the old necron models. An immortal, I would guess.

kronk wrote:I like the heavy flamer hits on embarked passengers. The siege dreadnought's is a little better, but this one is still fun!

The siege claw is actually more fun with 6E rules as flamer template weapons cause D3 autohits to embarked passengers. Therefore a Decimator with 2 Siege claws attacking an APC would cause 2D3 autohits plus another 1D6 for each successful penetration. Take the MoT and those autohits are resolved at str6. If the embarked passengers are not in power armour (or lack an inv save), the embarked passengers are not going to get any saves against those heavy flamer hits.

Its an absolute monster! I really like it. Does this mean I can field my future Chaos army without the mandatory Oblits?? I really dont want to use those.

candy.man wrote:

kronk wrote:I like the heavy flamer hits on embarked passengers. The siege dreadnought's is a little better, but this one is still fun!

The siege claw is actually more fun with 6E rules as flamer template weapons cause D3 autohits to embarked passengers.

I don't believe the "leaked" 6E book is real, but I guess we'll see. That would tear into some IG in a chimera or eldar in one of their rides, not that eldar would allow your dread to get that close to a full transport!

kronk wrote:That would tear into some IG in a chimera or eldar in one of their rides, not that eldar would allow your dread to get that close to a full transport!

I agree with this analysis. Delivery would be an issue (as with all CC walkers) however the less enemy shots on your other units, the better. Hopefully in the next CSM Dex, Chaos Sorcerers get some kind of teleportation spell which would make for an excellent Decimator delivery mechanic.

Personally I believe the final version of the rules is going to be fairly different from the experimental version. In the final version, the Decimator is probably going to be getting a either a cost decrease or an armour increase (hopefully AV13 front).

I'd wish it was just a tad tougher/quicker... I'd pay the points for it too