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You are missing the part that says that if a IC is within 2" of a unit at the end of the movement phase, he joins that unit.

So if the IC is further than 2" he leaves that unit.

If he is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining, this overrides his previous unit that he was joined to, because he must now declare which unit it is joining.

DeathReaper wrote:You are missing the part that says that if a IC is within 2" of a unit at the end of the movement phase, he joins that unit.

So if the IC is further than 2" he leaves that unit.

If he is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining, this overrides his previous unit that he was joined to, because he must now declare which unit it is joining.

I'm sure if you put this up on INAT that's exactly what they'd tell you but in RAW the override you mention is not stated. What page is that on?


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Ignatius wrote:I just don't see where/ when it would be practical to do so.

Idk either. Perhaps an IC that provides some benefit to any unit it's joined with? Trying to figure out the mechanics alone would take all night. What happens if one unit has to fall back?etc. I'm sure some one will try to find out but I don't want to be playing when it happens.

If you find a rule against it please let me know. It'd be nice to have a RAW reason instead of just RAI and HYWPI

First off - I can see many reasons to join more then one unit...but I am not going to list all the characters that can do stuff....

As for the argument, I understand what you are saying coming but there is something that you are missing and I just don't think that anyone has pointed it out clearly enough to make it understood....I will try...

Troop A - - - - - - - - - -Troop B
XXXXX IC - - - - - - - - - XXXXX
XXXXX - - - - - - - - - - - XXXXX

A&B are more then 2" away from each other

The first rule IC and joining units *PG 48)

-In order to join a unit, an independent character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the character is within 2" of more than one unit at he end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining. If a character does not intend to (or cannot) join a unit, it must remain more than 2" away from it at the end of the Movement phase. This is to make clear to the opponent if the character has joined a unit or not. Note that after a character joins a unit, that unit may move no further that Movement phase.

Now, let's go back to movement phase

Troop A -Troop B
XXXXX IC XXXXX
XXXXX - - XXXXX

Now if this setup was reached by:

Troop A Moving: then according to the rule " If the character is within 2" of more than one unit at he end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining" takes effect and since he is within 2" of more than 1 unit at the end of HIS movement, then he MUST declare which unit. Since declaring which unit he is a part of is a xingular choice, he could only choose to be a part of one or the other.

Troop B Moving: then according to the rule, the IC CANNOT join troop B yet since Troop A has not moved yet. Even if Troop A moved first, Troop B was not within 2" when TROOP A (inclufing the IC), finished THEIR move ment - "end of their Movement phase"

There is no way to move two units at the same time and since the rule SPECIFICALLY states 'Their' movement phase, and referencing the IC, once he finishes moving/not moving is when the choice is made. There is no ambiguity in the wording - since it states 'their movement phase', once a model is done moving, THEIR movement phase is over. If this stated that 'If at the end of YOUR (or THE) movement phase' - then there would be room for argument - but the word 'THEIR' means the model/unit in reference.

Hope that clears everything up....

The source of the confusion seems to be taking this rule out of its whole paragraph.

"In order to join a unit, an IC simply has to move so that he is within 2" coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their movement phase. if the character is within 2" of one or more units at the end of the movement phase, the player must declare which unit he is joining...."

This whole para only deals with one thing...ICs joining units. The scenario given is that the IC moves within 2" of 2 units he is not already part of. At the end of the movement phase he must choose one of them to join due to being in coherency with both.

I posit that if an IC is already part of a unit and they move so that he is within 2" of another unit he has no option but to remain with his first unit.
And here is why:
-"While an IC is part of a unit he must obey the usual coherency rules. The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together"
-"An IC can leave during the movement phase by moving out of coherency distance with it"

The rules I quoted earlier deal with an IC joining a unit, which he can only do by moving into coherency with them.
An IC may leave by moving out of coherency...at which point he may join another unit.
If the IC remains in coherency he is limited by the speed and coherency of the unit he is with.
So I posit that if Unit A +IC ends so the IC is within 2" of Unit B when the IC has moved with Unit A, then the IC has no choice but to remain with Unit A...and therefore none of this unit stacking is possible.

Seeing as how the IC is a normal member of Unit A, until he leaves, technically the IC cannot move to be within 2" of Unit B as he has no permission to join a unit at that time.

Troop A -Troop B
XXXXX IC XXXXX
XXXXX - - XXXXX

@Amaraxis - If Troop A +IC ended movement this way, the IC would have permission by the IC rules to join Troop B. I'm not seeing where in any of these rules that the IC in this case would have permission to leave Troop A if the player declared it was joining Troop B. It says here "the player must declare which unit it is joining" not 'which unit it is a part of'.

@Lightcavalier - The section does not indicate whether or not the IC is alone or with a unit already. Though we can all assume that it is alone I can't base an RAW argument on that since there is nothing really to back it up.

As for coherency with Troop A, yes the IC has maintained within coherency distance and indeed has no choice but to remain with them. In the example, though all this is true, the IC does find itself "within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase" and so "the player must declare which unit it is joining". The player declares Troop B.

In a permissive rule system we are told the IC in this case has permission to join Troop B but it is not given permission to leave Troop A the absurd but natural conclusion is that the IC would then be joined to both.... grrrr

@Happyjew - If the IC were just a normal member of the unit it would never be able to leave. Nor would it get singled out in CC. It is by necessity considered both a normal member and an IC at the same time. Yes I thought of that too. Especially the whole section about how the IC's Special Rules can be lost when it joins a unit. Unfortunately the IC Special Rule seems to have some exception from this since it is allowed to leave.

Note: I'm starting to feel like the IC section is a puzzle with a piece missing.

So out of curiosity what does "once again treated as normal members of the unit they have joined" mean to you then?

Abandon wrote:
@Lightcavalier - The section does not indicate whether or not the IC is alone or with a unit already. Though we can all assume that it is alone I can't base an RAW argument on that since there is nothing really to back it up.

Even so, you still have to follow the rules for leaving, which got RAW'd to death in my previous thread and ruled that the IC must move away from the unit in order to leave. IC wants to leave a unit (not in a transport) you have one and only one way to do it. The IC must move away from the unit.

That above answer is more about switching which unit the IC is attached to, which this thread seems to have evolved into, not what the OP originally asked. Can an IC be attached to more than one unit? No. There is nothing in the rule book that gives permission for that in any way.

Edit: That is my answer to the question based on RAW. My group and I play it differently because this section of the rule book is a bit messed up in our opinion.

Happyjew wrote:So out of curiosity what does "once again treated as normal members of the unit they have joined" mean to you then?

It is just what it says. Treated as a normal member. One could conclude by this that since normal members can't join other units the model that was an IC and is now just a normal member cannot either. This would be thinking of ICs incorrectly IMO since a normal member has no ability to leave the unit. As is clear, an IC can leave a unit and therefore must maintain it's IC ability. So the correct way would be to regard them as an IC that is a normal member of the unit. A Sergeant is both a Sergeant and a normal member of the unit after all why should these states be exclusive?


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haendas wrote: this section of the rule book is a bit messed up

Yes, indeed.