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Cheexsta wrote:

kinratha wrote:I belive IG get grav-chuts that let you get out if its gone flat out.

Doesn't work; vehicle special rules don't work if the vehicle is destroyed (Rulebook FAQ, p5). Once the Valk/Vend fails its dangerous terrain test, it is destroyed and the unit no longer has a means to disembark so is destroyed as well.

You actually get to dismount the people before the vechicle is declared a wreck. It's actually spelled out in the vehicle wrecking page on the order things go. You can still do things for the passengers to get out, THEN it becomes a wreck.

You can't, however, use the vehicles in a different phase like assault out of it but disembarkation rule kicks in first before wreck. (page 67, Vehicle Wrecked paragraph, last line)

Ah, true. Hadn't thought of that...

Sorry for the threadromancy, but I'm still confused over this rule.

After all of the back and forth in this thread, and it's the newest I've found, my interpretation is thus:

If it gets immobilised, wrecked, destroyed in it's last player turn, the transport is destroyed, regardless of whether it failed a DT test, Death or Glory, was shot down by either friendly or enemy fire.

The only time the occupants are killed is if the transport crashed during my movement phase.

Is that right?

ThePhish wrote:Sorry for the threadromancy, but I'm still confused over this rule.

After all of the back and forth in this thread, and it's the newest I've found, my interpretation is thus:

If it gets immobilised, wrecked, destroyed in it's last player turn, the transport is destroyed, regardless of whether it failed a DT test, Death or Glory, was shot down by either friendly or enemy fire.

The only time the occupants are killed is if the transport crashed during my movement phase.

Is that right?

No. The occupants are killed if the transport crashes during your turn, not just the movement phase. (So, that includes if you scatter a shot onto the transport)

Ok. Was the rest of it correct?

ThePhish wrote:Ok. Was the rest of it correct?

Yes (assuming the skimmer goes flat out, which was implied, but I wanted to make sure it was explicit)

Thank you for the quick response.

Grakmar wrote:

ThePhish wrote:Sorry for the threadromancy, but I'm still confused over this rule.

After all of the back and forth in this thread, and it's the newest I've found, my interpretation is thus:

If it gets immobilised, wrecked, destroyed in it's last player turn, the transport is destroyed, regardless of whether it failed a DT test, Death or Glory, was shot down by either friendly or enemy fire.

The only time the occupants are killed is if the transport crashed during my movement phase.

Is that right?

No. The occupants are killed if the transport crashes during your turn, not just the movement phase. (So, that includes if you scatter a shot onto the transport)

Actually, not any more. The Rulebook FAQ v1.5 changed the wording slightly:

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.

Don't see how that changes anything

The guys inside arnt destroyed....

jgehunter wrote:Don't see how that changes anything

Sigh. There's a difference between player turn (old FAQ) and movement phase (new FAQ). The new FAQ is the one that is actually supported by the main rules even.

don_mondo wrote:

jgehunter wrote:Don't see how that changes anything

Sigh. There's a difference between player turn (old FAQ) and movement phase (new FAQ). The new FAQ is the one that is actually supported by the main rules even.

The new Faq only clarifies what happens in the movement phase, it's already been argued over before, just look at the first page.

*sigh*

jgehunter wrote:

don_mondo wrote:

jgehunter wrote:Don't see how that changes anything

Sigh. There's a difference between player turn (old FAQ) and movement phase (new FAQ). The new FAQ is the one that is actually supported by the main rules even.

The new Faq only clarifies what happens in the movement phase, it's already been argued over before, just look at the first page.

*sigh*

That's what I get for clicking "Skip to first unread" and not realising that it was a multi-page debate...that I'd already contributed to anyway...

It's fine, I didn't even remember this thread to be true

Since this thread of mine has come back to life, Let me just be sure i understand

Oppt. movement phase- he moves Wave serpent flat out

My shooting phase- I shoot and immobilize the Wave Serpent. Since he moved flat out, the Wave Serpent is now Wrecked. Since this happend in MY shooting phase..his men do not Die, they simply get out and take a leadership for pinning.

I understand that all said and good, but here is my fuel to the argument. (and i understand the rules, i simply don't like how they are worded it just doesn't make any sense at all to me) So if my opponent gets to use his +3 cover from moving flat out on MY shooting phase and gets all the other benefits from moving flat out that carry into my phase. why not the ill effects as well? To me, if the wording says cannot get out if moved flat out.. then you cant get out if you moved flat out.. think about it... Are those guys really going to sit inside a burning wrecked vehical and say..nah were safe cause it shot us in his shooting phase..were good to go next turn lol. This is simply my thoughts on it, and i do play it as majority vote in my store, even if i do not agree with it.

The reason the negative effects do not carry is due to the rules and what they say. They are not always consistant but it is to punish the stupid and reward the clever, if you destroy your own flyer then you're up the swanny, if you can actually use it you get the cover saves.

It isnt a 3+ cover save when you go flat out in a skimmer, it is 4+

3+ is turboboost

Arrathon wrote:I understand that all said and good, but here is my fuel to the argument. (and i understand the rules, i simply don't like how they are worded it just doesn't make any sense at all to me) So if my opponent gets to use his +3 cover from moving flat out on MY shooting phase and gets all the other benefits from moving flat out that carry into my phase. why not the ill effects as well? To me, if the wording says cannot get out if moved flat out.. then you cant get out if you moved flat out..

To be fair, this was always the rule - the FAQ just reinforced RAW and clarified what actually happened to the unit inside. It might be a little inconsistent, but there are a lot of things in the game that are.

And FWIW, the flat-out skimmer is suffering ill effects in your turn: it has become 50% easier to score a Destroyed result on the damage chart

I know, i simply ama old crabby man and i like to complain sometimes lol

Ok I've read all the posts, even the new ones though I'm still confused.

During my Movement Phase, I move my Vendetta 24" with a full 10 man Stormtrooper squad embarked on it.

On my opponents Shooting Phase, I fail the 4+ cover save from going flat out, and he gets an Immobilization. So that means the squad within come out, take their test for pinning and still live correct?

Does this still apply if I move flat-out in the scout phase with the Vendetta if my opponent have 1st turn?

Greyfox231 wrote:Ok I've read all the posts, even the new ones though I'm still confused.

During my Movement Phase, I move my Vendetta 24" with a full 10 man Stormtrooper squad embarked on it.

On my opponents Shooting Phase, I fail the 4+ cover save from going flat out, and he gets an Immobilization. So that means the squad within come out, take their test for pinning and still live correct?

Does this still apply if I move flat-out in the scout phase with the Vendetta if my opponent have 1st turn?

Answer to Q1: Yes.

Answer to Q2: Yes.

jgehunter wrote:

don_mondo wrote:

jgehunter wrote:Don't see how that changes anything

Sigh. There's a difference between player turn (old FAQ) and movement phase (new FAQ). The new FAQ is the one that is actually supported by the main rules even.

The new Faq only clarifies what happens in the movement phase, it's already been argued over before, just look at the first page.

*sigh*

OK, show me where anything says TURN.

Main rulebook, page 70:

FAST TRANSPORT VEHICLES
Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase.

FAQ:
Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.

As I As I said before, they fixed the FAQ so that it actually agrees with the rulebook. You only lose the unit if your skimmer immobilizes in your own movement phase, per both main rules and FAQ. Nothing in the rulesor FAQs says anything about the penalty applying to the entire turn.

"That movement phase" refers to the movement phase it is moving flat out in; there is no restriction given on when passengers are restricted from em/disembarking

Context suggests just movement phase, but turn is just as valid

Other then being wrecked though you cant disembark at anytime other then the movement phase though. So it is implied as only really applying during the movement phase. And we know for a fact it doesn't matter during the other guys turn.

A shot scattrring onto a tranpsort vehicle from your own shooting can force a wrecked result, so it does have a purpose

A shot scattering onto the transport from my own shooting would happen in my shooting phase, not "that movement phase".

So the only time the occupants are killed outright is during my movement phase. Any other time the transport is immobilised when it moved flat out in it's last movement phase, immobilisation becomes wrecked and the passengers emergency disembark. Correct?

No, because as I said - there is NO duration given on when passengers are prevented from embarking and disembarking

You can take it as movement phase only, or player turn

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, because as I said - there is NO duration given on when passengers are prevented from embarking and disembarking

You can take it as movement phase only, or player turn

well seeing as how you can only voluntarily embark/disembark in the movement phase (pg66) the implied duration would seem to be limited to your current movement phase. while you can't voluntarily embark and disembark on the same player turn, you can embark and be forced to disembark.

so the only time an embarked unit is killed outright is in a skimmer going flat out, and getting destroyed in its movement phase. The FAQ is pretty specific about it only happening in the movement phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lakhota wrote:Okies... Im not English so I prob never reads the rules the right way...

But seriously.. 40k cant be played as a RTS, but turnwise, but still everything happends at the same time.

If a veichle moves flat out it gets an invl save against shooting for one full turn as it goes fast as hell that turn, but you meen that the skimmer only goes that fast that movement turn, and then sits still until the next turn? But still get that invul save as it goes fast as hell! Well, it did go fast as hell 5 mins ago, so it should still get that save!!!!

1+1=2... If you get the invul save rule until your next movement phase, why dont you get the "people inside the skimmer cant disembark" during the same timeframe?

the rule for the cover save states "in the following enemies shooting phase" so the only time they get the save is in the enemies next shooting phase. its not a save for a full turn.

nosferatu1001 wrote:"That movement phase" refers to the movement phase it is moving flat out in; there is no restriction given on when passengers are restricted from em/disembarking

Context suggests just movement phase, but turn is just as valid

Put context and FAQ together and it's pretty solid that they just meant phase, IMO. Especially given that they changed the FAQ to say phase instead of turn.

It may also help to remember why the FAQ ruling came out to begin with. . . It was GW's response to Dark Eldar players purposefully trying to wreck transports in difficult/dangerous terrain 1st turn, forcing a disembarkation that was otherwise not allowed, followed by fleet and then assault move for a 1st turn assault range of 30+D6".
That, coupled with the purposeful rewording of the FAQ to say 'movement phase' makes it pretty clear that their intentions are to limit the 'squad destroyed' ruling to the movement phase.
Just my $.02.

Trefenwyd