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Melissia wrote:H&K make firearms? I thought they made waterguns.

Thats SuperSoaker. I understand your confusion



I agree though, every H&K Ive held on to, just flet weird.

It's an easy mistake to make.

Melissia wrote:It's an easy mistake to make.

One makes the finest combat firearms in the world, the other makes an invaluable aid to any budding wet t-shirt contest organizer.

Seaward wrote:

Melissia wrote:It's an easy mistake to make.

One makes the finest combat firearms in the world, the other makes an invaluable aid to any budding wet t-shirt contest organizer.

I don't think I would call supersoaker the "finest combat firearms in the world", but they are good designs. I never knew that wet t-shirt contest organizers liked H&K so much.

Seaward wrote:People voluntarily purchase firearms not manufactured by Heckler & Koch?

Yes because we are Amurikans and the Germans lost even with their Aryan uber cars.




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Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:People voluntarily purchase firearms not manufactured by Heckler & Koch?

Yes because we are Amurikans and the Germans lost even with their Aryan uber cars.

If you ever want to over engineer something, ask a German.

Frazz, Ive never seen someone make a post, and then quote their own post, to make fun of themselves

Kudos to you good sir


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ITs true though, they will over engineer something. Then you give it to a Russian, and when they are done, you get the best whatever it is ever made, and simplified

If you're trying to claim the kaloshnikov is the best there was ever made, simplified, I would have to say you're more than a bit wrong...

The AK is an amazing sub-machinegun.

You just need to remember that it wasn't ever intended to be an assault rifle.

KingCracker wrote:Frazz, Ive never seen someone make a post, and then quote their own post, to make fun of themselves

Kudos to you good sir


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ITs true though, they will over engineer something. Then you give it to a Russian, and when they are done, you get the best whatever it is ever made, and simplified

GalacticDefender wrote:

Melissia wrote:Given that they gave up on the revolver market*, and generally only have a tiny lineup of the same old same old in terms of he civilian market, I don't honestly know. I guess they survive off of military and police weapons.


*Yes, I nkow they produce replica SAAs. No, that doesn't count. The reason one would buy a Colt SAA is different than the reason one would buy a diamondback, python, or anaconda. Honestly, SAAs are boring, stupid, and ugly, unlike Colt's more modern revolvers.

SAA as in single action army? What's wrong with cap and ball revolvers? (Obviously they can't be used for self defense or anything practical really, but I buy guns mainly as a collector)

And Single Action army/navy revolvers are definitely not ugly. In fact, I think the 1861 is probably one of the most beautiful pieces colt has ever come up with. You don't see pictures of old naval battles imprinted into the cylinder of Colt's modern guns, do you?

The model 1861 and SAA are not the same gun.

Yes, the SAA is an entirely different monster.

I don't know that I agree with you on looks Mel but I literally grew up with a SAA in my hands. My grandfather gave me a pair of beautiful bone handled SAA toys. They had real metallic cartridges that you pressed plasic bullets into and shot. Presumably at targets but for me: older brothers. I suppose that today I am rather fond of Schoefields, but the SAA is rooted in childhood memory.

The M1911 is rooted in mine.

Melissia wrote:The M1911 is rooted in mine.

it would be interesting to see which is more accurate, a $2,700 Les Baer or STI racegun, or Sig X Five, both in terms of 25 yards accuracy and timed action. You can get an STI in 9mm to take out the differential variable for a second version of the test.

I know having shot both genuine GI 1911s and 9mm Lugers, i'd take a GI 1911 hands down.

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:People voluntarily purchase firearms not manufactured by Heckler & Koch?

Yes because we are Amurikans and the Germans lost even with their Aryan uber cars.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:People voluntarily purchase firearms not manufactured by Heckler & Koch?

Yes because we are Amurikans and the Germans lost even with their Aryan uber cars.

If you ever want to over engineer something, ask a German.

If I ever want something engineered, a German's the only person I'd ask. 1911s are cute and fun to shoot, but I don't want a carry piece that needs more maintenance than a reality TV housewife. I fall into muddy quagmires far too often.

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:People voluntarily purchase firearms not manufactured by Heckler & Koch?

Yes because we are Amurikans and the Germans lost even with their Aryan uber cars.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:People voluntarily purchase firearms not manufactured by Heckler & Koch?

Yes because we are Amurikans and the Germans lost even with their Aryan uber cars.

If you ever want to over engineer something, ask a German.

If I ever want something engineered, a German's the only person I'd ask. 1911s are cute and fun to shoot, but I don't want a carry piece that needs more maintenance than a reality TV housewife. I fall into muddy quagmires far too often.

If I ever want a firearm engineered I'll find a Mormon.

Seaward wrote:If I ever want something engineered, a German's the only person I'd ask. 1911s are cute and fun to shoot, but I don't want a carry piece that needs more maintenance than a reality TV housewife. I fall into muddy quagmires far too often.

You must not have been around 1911s then. race guns yea. M&P types no way jose.

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:If I ever want something engineered, a German's the only person I'd ask. 1911s are cute and fun to shoot, but I don't want a carry piece that needs more maintenance than a reality TV housewife. I fall into muddy quagmires far too often.

You must not have been around 1911s then. race guns yea. M&P types no way jose.

M&P types also don't shoot nearly as well as race guns. 's why I picked the HK45. The gun's more accurate than I am, and I could put 50,000 rounds through it without ever stripping it if the zombie apocalypse hit and I ran out of Remoil.

I love 1911 ergos, don't get me wrong. Find me one that I don't have to trick out like a teenager with a Honda Civic, that doesn't need as much lube as a geriatric swinger's convention, and that can be comfortably carried, and I'll convert.

Until then...H&K all the way.

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:If I ever want something engineered, a German's the only person I'd ask. 1911s are cute and fun to shoot, but I don't want a carry piece that needs more maintenance than a reality TV housewife. I fall into muddy quagmires far too often.

You must not have been around 1911s then. race guns yea. M&P types no way jose.

M&P types also don't shoot nearly as well as race guns. 's why I picked the HK45. The gun's more accurate than I am, and I could put 50,000 rounds through it without ever stripping it if the zombie apocalypse hit and I ran out of Remoil.

I love 1911 ergos, don't get me wrong. Find me one that I don't have to trick out like a teenager with a Honda Civic, that doesn't need as much lube as a geriatric swinger's convention, and that can be comfortably carried, and I'll convert.

Until then...H&K all the way.

Define "more lube than a geriatric swinger's convention?" i've never noticed 1911s getting any more antsy than your average Beretta or Sig. I don't know about plastic guns.

Frazzled wrote:
Define "more lube than a geriatric swinger's convention?" i've never noticed 1911s getting any more antsy than your average Beretta or Sig. I don't know about plastic guns.

Well, as above, I could run 50K rounds through your average HK45 without ever lubing it, much less cleaning it, and it'd still perform. My suspicion is the same would not be true of a 1911.

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Define "more lube than a geriatric swinger's convention?" i've never noticed 1911s getting any more antsy than your average Beretta or Sig. I don't know about plastic guns.

Well, as above, I could run 50K rounds through your average HK45 without ever lubing it, much less cleaning it, and it'd still perform. My suspicion is the same would not be true of a 1911.

Have you known anyone to ever shoot a firearm 50,000 times without ever cleaning it? Pics or it didn't happen.

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Define "more lube than a geriatric swinger's convention?" i've never noticed 1911s getting any more antsy than your average Beretta or Sig. I don't know about plastic guns.

Well, as above, I could run 50K rounds through your average HK45 without ever lubing it, much less cleaning it, and it'd still perform. My suspicion is the same would not be true of a 1911.

Have you known anyone to ever shoot a firearm 50,000 times without ever cleaning it? Pics or it didn't happen.

Haven't seen it personally, no, I'll admit that much. Know I've seen it on one of the more serious review blogs, though.

Pistol-training.com ran 91K rounds through a P30 with only 15 total cleanings. A far cry from 50K, but 6000 rounds between field strips is pretty impressive all the same.

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Define "more lube than a geriatric swinger's convention?" i've never noticed 1911s getting any more antsy than your average Beretta or Sig. I don't know about plastic guns.

Well, as above, I could run 50K rounds through your average HK45 without ever lubing it, much less cleaning it, and it'd still perform. My suspicion is the same would not be true of a 1911.

Have you known anyone to ever shoot a firearm 50,000 times without ever cleaning it? Pics or it didn't happen.

Haven't seen it personally, no, I'll admit that much. Know I've seen it on one of the more serious review blogs, though.

Pistol-training.com ran 91K rounds through a P30 with only 15 total cleanings. A far cry from 50K, but 6000 rounds between field strips is pretty impressive all the same.

That is very impressive. Sure as hell isn't "never cleaned in over 50m rounds" though.

Having said all this I do like the HK. I prefer a 1911 for less recoil of a .45 round, and more safeties which is better for constant carry.
But I also like Walthers, and Sigs, and Wilson Combats, and CZ's, and Berettas, and Springfields, and Colt Pythons, and even on rare occasion-Glocks.

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Define "more lube than a geriatric swinger's convention?" i've never noticed 1911s getting any more antsy than your average Beretta or Sig. I don't know about plastic guns.

Well, as above, I could run 50K rounds through your average HK45 without ever lubing it, much less cleaning it, and it'd still perform. My suspicion is the same would not be true of a 1911.

Absolute and utter nonsense. Were you to not lube or clean your gun you would be DEMANDING that it fail. This gun was cleaned 7 times over 50,000 rounds and while it's performance is fantastic. Were you to not clean or lube it over the same period of time you could expect catastrophic failure.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

Guns and Ammo ran a USGI 1911 through a torture test absolutely dry and it functioned flawlessly.
Don't make nonsense statements. You've managed to say that a gun designed nearly a century after the 1911 can edge it out. Bravo.
I certainly don't and would not carry a 1911 bust to claim that the HK45 is vastly superior to it is patently untrue. The 1911 and to a lesser extent the Hi Power is the measuring stick against which all combat pistols will be measured. It didn't become the standard against which others are measured by being unreliable, inefficient, and broken.

Still interesting to look at which would be the most accurate.

Melissia wrote:If you're trying to claim the kaloshnikov is the best there was ever made, simplified, I would have to say you're more than a bit wrong...

Well you simply cannot argue with the staying power, and ruggedness that the AK has, not to mention that in close engagements, you cant really say the AK is inaccurate compared to modern rifles, as they shoot pretty much the same groupings depending on shooters. But no that wasnt what I was referring to. I was meaning in general, and mostly as a joke.

KingCracker wrote:Well you simply cannot argue with the staying power, and ruggedness that the AK has

I can, however, argue that just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

It's a heavy, clunky weapon (nearly twice the weight of many of its competitors), which was a low quality mass production piece. Its only real qualities are that it's cheap and easy to maintain. Armed forces who can afford something better wouldn't settle for it, and for good reason.

Melissia wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Well you simply cannot argue with the staying power, and ruggedness that the AK has

I can, however, argue that just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

Like gay marriage. PA POW!
Had to.

Well yea, your trying to compare a weapon made in the 40s, with modern weapons. Of course a modern military wouldnt pick it, as compared to modern rifles, its short comings start to show. BUT! Its incredibly popular for reasons more then, hey its an AK! They made a gak load of Mosin Nagants too, I dont see those on countries flags anywhere. The AK is a staple, and like a 1911, its design has stayed and been proven in its long life. So at least give the AK some respect, and stop trying to punk it. It was, and still is a really good rifle.

KingCracker wrote:The AK is a staple, and like a 1911

No. Don't compare those two. The kalosh is way below the league of the 1911.

The reason it was so widely used is because it's cheap and easy to get. The reason that ti's popular is beacuse it's so widely used.