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AustonT wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Define "more lube than a geriatric swinger's convention?" i've never noticed 1911s getting any more antsy than your average Beretta or Sig. I don't know about plastic guns.

Well, as above, I could run 50K rounds through your average HK45 without ever lubing it, much less cleaning it, and it'd still perform. My suspicion is the same would not be true of a 1911.

Absolute and utter nonsense. Were you to not lube or clean your gun you would be DEMANDING that it fail. This gun was cleaned 7 times over 50,000 rounds and while it's performance is fantastic. Were you to not clean or lube it over the same period of time you could expect catastrophic failure.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

Possibly, possibly not. I know I've seen it put up somewhere, but I'll allow that it could well be vaporing. If any gun can do it, it's that one.

Guns and Ammo ran a USGI 1911 through a torture test absolutely dry and it functioned flawlessly.

For how many rounds? I can run a Charter Arms dry and it'll fire at least once.

Don't make nonsense statements. You've managed to say that a gun designed nearly a century after the 1911 can edge it out. Bravo.
I certainly don't and would not carry a 1911 bust to claim that the HK45 is vastly superior to it is patently untrue. The 1911 and to a lesser extent the Hi Power is the measuring stick against which all combat pistols will be measured. It didn't become the standard against which others are measured by being unreliable, inefficient, and broken.

I don't recall ever saying it was unreliable, inefficient, or broken. 1911s are fine guns. 1967 Shelby Mustangs are fine cars. It's pretty ridiculous to claim that nothing better has come along in either case.

KingCracker wrote:
I agree though, every H&K Ive held on to, just flet weird.

I must preface this by saying, I have never fired this one, but it did just feel nice... the MP7. My unit did some training with a sister unit, and one of the dudes there had an assigned MP7..I couldn't resist asking to see it, and like i said, it just felt nice.

Melissia wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The AK is a staple, and like a 1911

No. Don't compare those two. The kalosh is way below the league of the 1911.

The reason it was so widely used is because it's cheap and easy to get. The reason that ti's popular is beacuse it's so widely used.

The reason it's popular is because it's popular :p

I did look at getting a 7.62 Saiga and doing a conversion, but in the end, I decided to go with an AR-15, myself.

*cue AR-15 vs. AK variant debate*

Ronin-Sage wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The AK is a staple, and like a 1911

No. Don't compare those two. The kalosh is way below the league of the 1911.

The reason it was so widely used is because it's cheap and easy to get. The reason that ti's popular is beacuse it's so widely used.

The reason it's popular is because it's popular :p

I did look at getting a 7.62 Saiga and doing a conversion, but in the end, I decided to go with an AR-15, myself.

*cue AR-15 vs. AK variant debate*

I like good AK's. They are clunky and feel great in the hands. Plus what else are you going to shout "WOLVERINNNNNNEEEES!!!" with?

Melissia wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The AK is a staple, and like a 1911

No. Don't compare those two. The kalosh is way below the league of the 1911.

The reason it was so widely used is because it's cheap and easy to get. The reason that ti's popular is beacuse it's so widely used.

Uhg, sometimes you make so much sense I have to shut off DAKKA, as its getting weird. Then other times, its like talking to an Oak. I guess all the gun experts and firearms historians or all proven wrong because Melissia has spoken






I too like the feel of an AK, they are just a solid rifle, through and through. Do I want one? Yes, Id definitely like to own one. Would I choose it over a good AR15 or any of its million variants.....probably not. I like them, they are fun to shoot, but a good AR is a fantastic little shooter. My oldest brothers ACR is a fething joy to shoot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The AK is a staple, and like a 1911

No. Don't compare those two. The kalosh is way below the league of the 1911.

The reason it was so widely used is because it's cheap and easy to get. The reason that ti's popular is beacuse it's so widely used.

The reason it's popular is because it's popular :p

I did look at getting a 7.62 Saiga and doing a conversion, but in the end, I decided to go with an AR-15, myself.

*cue AR-15 vs. AK variant debate*

I like good AK's. They are clunky and feel great in the hands. Plus what else are you going to shout "WOLVERINNNNNNEEEES!!!" with?

Awww crap, Frazz has been up all night watching Red Dawn again

Man....living in Malaysia, where one cannot own a paintball gun without a Police permit...so jelly.

I fired a sling shot once though.

It was groovy.

I used to have a sling shot when I was younger. They are one of those weapons, that are hard to shoot UNTIL you learn the secret to aiming them. Used to goto the fishing holes out here and shoot beer bottles with them.

KingCracker wrote:Uhg, sometimes you make so much sense I have to shut off DAKKA, as its getting weird. Then other times, its like talking to an Oak. I guess all the gun experts and firearms historians or all proven wrong because Melissia has spoken

My hate of hte AK is probably a bit irrational, but at the same time, I'm tired of people saying "omg its the betsets tehng evar" all the time They don't even damn qualify.

Melissia wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Uhg, sometimes you make so much sense I have to shut off DAKKA, as its getting weird. Then other times, its like talking to an Oak. I guess all the gun experts and firearms historians or all proven wrong because Melissia has spoken

My hate of hte AK is probably a bit irrational, but at the same time, I'm tired of people saying "omg its the betsets tehng evar" all the time They don't even damn qualify.

You do?

EDIT: You don't get a lot of "AK is the best gun evah!" You get a lot of the 'AK is the best assault rifle in history' citing its effectiveness, durability, length of service, and ubiquitous nature.
A lot of survival types like the AK for these reasons.

The mistake most make with the AK series is treating them as rifles. They were never intended to be as their designers and never viewed as such by the military that used them> They were replacements for WWII-era sub-machineguns and in terms of range, accuracy and lethality they outdid the weapons they replaced so well they ended up as the primary issue arm of the Soviet Military.

There are worse plinkers out there. While not up to the latest western A rifles, a good shooter is reasonably accurate with one out to 150 - 200 yards. I say this of course, based years ago on Eastern Bloc versions so I don't know if current build quality is similar.

Actually I DO see tons of people arguing that...

Melissia wrote:Actually I DO see tons of people arguing that...

Who? Now for some considerations it is. I know if I am playing Zombiepocalypse I'd rather it because they are very very tough, reasonably accurate, and require minimal cleaning like evah.

If you want a good AK, get a Galil. If you want the perfect AK, get a Sig.
-ducks behind cover-

Insurgency Walker wrote:If you want a good AK, get a Galil. If you want the perfect AK, get a Sig.
-ducks behind cover-

or a Smitth and Wesson, or a Ruger.

Agreed. Melissia I think your distaste for the AK is whats clouding your judgment. Insert some Jedi saying here please. The durability of the rifle is friggin legendary, and for good reason. You pretty much, cannot break one. I once saw a video of some Taliban solider, "fixing" his. It was run over by a big ass truck and the barrel was all bent to feth. So he was bashing the barrel strait again, with a rock. He then spit down the barrel to "clean" it and then started firing the damn thing. Im sorry, but any rifle that you can do that with, and STILL fire, let alone hit anything, is pretty awesome.


But again, Im not saying its the best rifle ever, and like I commented on before, my Russian joke was mostly about Russians doing it the "Russian way" I honestly wasnt talking about the AK at all

Frazzled wrote:

Insurgency Walker wrote:If you want a good AK, get a Galil. If you want the perfect AK, get a Sig.
-ducks behind cover-

or a Smitth and Wesson, or a Ruger.

Well, the Galil and the Sig 556 are both have some AK parentage. ( the Galil a lot) I don't think s&w or Ruger have gone down that path yet.
On the subject of durability.
While AKs have a well deserved reputation for being tough, historically many others are also. I have seen a Ruger 10/22 run over by a truck with only stock scratches and a broken scope as a result. Shot the same day with iron sights, still zeroed. The thompson smg used to be demonstrated by a guy who would push the barrel into the dirt, and shoot the gun. This caused the barrel to blow off at the end, and he would repete the process untill no barrel was left. That is CRAZY! You can also YouTube video of some crazy guy shooting an AK untill it bursts into flames! But the argument will rage on. Personally, I like them all!

Insurgency Walker wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Insurgency Walker wrote:If you want a good AK, get a Galil. If you want the perfect AK, get a Sig.
-ducks behind cover-

or a Smitth and Wesson, or a Ruger.

Well, the Galil and the Sig 556 are both have some AK parentage. ( the Galil a lot) I don't think s&w or Ruger have gone down that path yet.
On the subject of durability.
While AKs have a well deserved reputation for being tough, historically many others are also. I have seen a Ruger 10/22 run over by a truck with only stock scratches and a broken scope as a result. Shot the same day with iron sights, still zeroed. The thompson smg used to be demonstrated by a guy who would push the barrel into the dirt, and shoot the gun. This caused the barrel to blow off at the end, and he would repete the process untill no barrel was left. That is CRAZY! You can also YouTube video of some crazy guy shooting an AK untill it bursts into flames! But the argument will rage on. Personally, I like them all!

Both S&W and Ruger have created 5.56s that use a piston driven bolt action now. I'd proffer thats the biggest AK heritage in the market currently.

Piston driven actions are not exactly unique to the AK or AK derivatives. The M1 Garand was using it for about a decade before the AK came into being.

One of the revolutions of the AR-15 series was that it didn't use a piston.

You can reasonably expect 1-3 MOA from most mass produced assault rifles. An AK can expect 2-4 ish. Which is well within the acceptable range. There are outliers on either side better and worse for any type. There are ARs that can't shoot, and ARs that can hold half MoA. Similarly there are AKs that shoot sub MoA and AKs that shoot 8-10 MoA. Truth be told the FAL and AK have similar accuracy expectations. And no one really argues that the FAL is junk(it kind of is).
The person that keeps saying the AK-47 was not designed as an assault rifle is flat wrong. Kalashnikov responded to a solicitation in 1944 for a carbine that lost out to the SKS. No one has ever argued that the SKS is anything less than a battle rifle.The AK 46 models 1 and two were designed for a Soviet solicitation for a main battle rifle. After the AK 46 cleaned up in the first year the Kalashnikov team redesigned the weapon into the rifle, automatic, model of 1947. Intended and specifically designed as a primary infantry weapon rather than a supplementary SMG.

I don't like AKs because of what they've stood for for so long. They reek of dictatorships, ruthless murder and cultural perversion. The vietcong used them to slaughter us in that war. African militants have used them to terrorize their citizens into submission since the 60s, and now radical muslims are using them for the same purpose across the middle-east.

The AK just gives off an aura of murder and crime. That's probably why I don't like it. Seems like a good gun for what it was designed for.

Back to Colt. I'd like to see Colt spank the polymer market with a lightweight double column pistol, and of course a remake of their classic cap and ball revolver.

Frazzled wrote:Back to Colt. I'd like to see Colt spank the polymer market with a lightweight double column pistol, and of course a remake of their classic cap and ball revolver.

I don't think polymers are going anywhere.

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Back to Colt. I'd like to see Colt spank the polymer market with a lightweight double column pistol, and of course a remake of their classic cap and ball revolver.

I don't think polymers are going anywhere.

Who says they were? I'd like to see a Colt entrant. Put an inexpensive SA 9mm double column with active and grip safeties made in the US and I will give you cash.

Alternatively, give me a cheaper 9mm version of this and I will buy it within 30 days.
(Frazzled drools for this like TBone drools for a treed squirrel, yes the one in the back yard that escapes every time curse you squirrel demon!!!)
http://gunsgunsguns.net/sti-vip/

Frazzled wrote:Back to Colt. I'd like to see Colt spank the polymer market with a lightweight double column pistol, and of course a remake of their classic cap and ball revolver.

I'd like them to remake their snake line of revolvers.

Diamondback and Anaconda, specifically. An anaconda with extended barrel is just... sex. And the diamondback was an excellent looking and efficient self defense weapon.

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Back to Colt. I'd like to see Colt spank the polymer market with a lightweight double column pistol, and of course a remake of their classic cap and ball revolver.

I don't think polymers are going anywhere.

Who says they were? I'd like to see a Colt entrant. Put an inexpensive SA 9mm double column with active and grip safeties made in the US and I will give you cash.

Ah, I misread. Thought you meant you wanted to see Colt challenge the polymer market with a non-polymer.

Why the love of grip safeties?

Melissia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Back to Colt. I'd like to see Colt spank the polymer market with a lightweight double column pistol, and of course a remake of their classic cap and ball revolver.

I'd like them to remake their snake line of revolvers.

Diamondback and Anaconda, specifically. An anaconda with extended barrel is just... sex. And the diamondback was an excellent looking and efficient self defense weapon.

I was more particular to the Python, but always thought Colt's .357 revovlers were the personification of the perfect revolver. It didn't get better than that, and I love Ruger and S&W revolvers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Back to Colt. I'd like to see Colt spank the polymer market with a lightweight double column pistol, and of course a remake of their classic cap and ball revolver.

I don't think polymers are going anywhere.

Who says they were? I'd like to see a Colt entrant. Put an inexpensive SA 9mm double column with active and grip safeties made in the US and I will give you cash.

Ah, I misread. Thought you meant you wanted to see Colt challenge the polymer market with a non-polymer.

Why the love of grip safeties?

Its an excellent passive safety and if you're carrying cocked and locked with a 4-5 lb breaking glass trigger you like that. I don't trust Glock trigger safety bs. Thats not a safety. Thats an extra bit of trigger. Your mileage may vary.

I thought the python was okay but I still like the other two more.

I wouldn't mind seeing a revival of hte python though! Especially an 8" barrel marksmanship style python.

The diamondback I like because of its practicality combined with its good looks, while the anaconda I like purely because it is the best looking revolver ever made.

Yep. Having said that I'm not sure we'd such anytime soon. I'd proffer the nonCC revolver market is not what it was.

Problem is most concealed carry revolvers look uuuuuugly.

Especially snubnose ones, ugh. I just want to take a hammer to them whenever I look at them.

I know they fill their purpose perfectly well, but come on, gotta have SOME style.