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TedNugent wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:
I don't like putting Dok with manz, Manz need to be used w precision much moreso than boyz. The Dok is not exactly precise. I am a huge fan of Dok and use him almost every game, but he is better off in a pack of choppa boyz or with snikrot. 20 cyborked choppas is about same price as 30 choppas and can handle alot of things that make normal boyz cry like purifiers, blood talons, hormagaunts with adrenaline, zerkers, etc.

Hey ted
20 Cyborked Boyz cost 220 pts

30 Choppa Boyz cost 180 pts

BTW, 20 Cyborked Boyz still lose against a 10 man squad of Purifiers regardless of their equipment and regardless of whether you get the charge.

I always put the Dok with the Cybork boyz, sorry that wasn't clear.

20 Cybork Nob BP Klaw 260
30 Boyz Nob BP Klaw 220

You can't say that anyone takes a boyz squad wo the PK nob option, so once you do this the price is pretty close. It's a tough question to say which is better though. The dok's FNP is what makes the biggest difference vs purifiers since it greatly reduces cleansing flame.

Grots R OP wrote:

TedNugent wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:
I don't like putting Dok with manz, Manz need to be used w precision much moreso than boyz. The Dok is not exactly precise. I am a huge fan of Dok and use him almost every game, but he is better off in a pack of choppa boyz or with snikrot. 20 cyborked choppas is about same price as 30 choppas and can handle alot of things that make normal boyz cry like purifiers, blood talons, hormagaunts with adrenaline, zerkers, etc.

Hey ted
20 Cyborked Boyz cost 220 pts

30 Choppa Boyz cost 180 pts

BTW, 20 Cyborked Boyz still lose against a 10 man squad of Purifiers regardless of their equipment and regardless of whether you get the charge.

I always put the Dok with the Cybork boyz, sorry that wasn't clear.

20 Cybork Nob BP Klaw 260
30 Boyz Nob BP Klaw 220

You can't say that anyone takes a boyz squad wo the PK nob option, so once you do this the price is pretty close. It's a tough question to say which is better though. The dok's FNP is what makes the biggest difference vs purifiers since it greatly reduces cleansing flame.

That would be pretty leet

One thing I was thinking is that if the Purifiers opt to use Cleansing Flame, they can no longer instant death Grotsnik.

interesting point, since they are psykers level 1 I am not totally sure if they can use flame and activate NFW in the same turn or not either. I will ask in rules forum. I have a grey knights codex but don't play them.

They can't. That's why when I fight purifiers, I try multiassaulting with a boyz unit and a nob unit (after shooting them of course). Then he's gotta choose one or the other, but he's damned either way.

It's activating NFW or Purifing Flame or Hammerhand. Anything but striking squads with Justicar Thawn or GK units joined by ICs won't get more than one power per turn.

Many GK player play this wrong, both accidentally and on purpose.

I've used them to great effect in apoc games. People don't really expect 6 meganobs to come out of a truuk, and then that many PK attacks can take down baneblades, titans, etc...

I put 9 in a unit with Grotsnik, stick them in a deffrolla wagon, and shoot them across the board. When they disembark, I just use the wagon to tank shock something else. Granted, I play them with another deffrolla wagon filled with slugga boyz/nob, lootas, and Ghaz with Snikrot and kommandos in the army. I think that's decent threat saturation, on my part.

They tend to do their points worth and more in damage in my army, because the opponent is usually moving in from the sides to get away from any chance of being hit by Ghaz and the burna-kommandos. Gauge the unit that is closest to the MANZ, shoot them with the lootas to soften them up, and the MANZ will wreck them. Chances are they've got their units close to each other, and rush in one or two to help melee them. This bogs the opponent down for at least a turn while you come in with the boyz and get everything else in place.

Ultimately, by themselves, MANZ don't work well. When supplemented and used with forethought, they are an amazing unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote:I've used them to great effect in apoc games. People don't really expect 10 meganobs to come out of a truuk, and then that many PK attacks can take down baneblades, titans, etc...

They don't expect it because 10 meganobz can't fit in a trukk.

TheHarleqwin wrote:They don't expect it because 10 meganobz can't fit in a trukk.

Edited to the correct number of 6. Thanks.

TheHarleqwin wrote:I put 9 in a unit with Grotsnik, stick them in a deffrolla wagon, and shoot them across the board. When they disembark, I just use the wagon to tank shock something else. Granted, I play them with another deffrolla wagon filled with slugga boyz/nob, lootas, and Ghaz with Snikrot and kommandos in the army. I think that's decent threat saturation, on my part.

They tend to do their points worth and more in damage in my army, because the opponent is usually moving in from the sides to get away from any chance of being hit by Ghaz and the burna-kommandos. Gauge the unit that is closest to the MANZ, shoot them with the lootas to soften them up, and the MANZ will wreck them. Chances are they've got their units close to each other, and rush in one or two to help melee them. This bogs the opponent down for at least a turn while you come in with the boyz and get everything else in place.

Ultimately, by themselves, MANZ don't work well. When supplemented and used with forethought, they are an amazing unit.

You realize that you have no say in where and how fast Grotznik's battlewagon goes? In addition a single land speeder/kopta/viper/whatever can force Grotznik and those MANz to disembark in the middle of nowhere. Deep striking armies might even force the battlewagon to turn around and drive the other way.

Jidmah wrote:
You realize that you have no say in where and how fast Grotznik's battlewagon goes? In addition a single land speeder/kopta/viper/whatever can force Grotznik and those MANz to disembark in the middle of nowhere. Deep striking armies might even force the battlewagon to turn around and drive the other way.

I'm quite aware of this and perfectly fine with it. In fact, I said I run this list regularly and do very well with it.

At worst, they kite it. Fine. I have lootas that can blow away whatever unit is running around them, and I can always just ignore that they're kiting it. They get somewhat concerned when dealing with a second battlewagon, Ghaz/Snikrot, and lootas. This often means they focus too hard on one end of the field over the other and make mistakes because they're taking heavy threats everywhere else.

If I jump a kopta right in front/next to/behind your battlewagon on my turn (or even scout move), Gortznik must exit his wagon during that movement phase, before you have any chance to shoot or move the battlewagon anywhere. He might even block your other wagons by doing so, as MANz bases are pretty wide.

Sure, that kopta is going to die, but I just delayed a good portion of your army for an entire turn.

You have a rock-paper-scissors argument going, which really means nothing. You could make the same type of argument about how to trump any other kind of unit in the game. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that while yes, you can do that, how likely is it that every army you face will have something to turboboost at your MANZ before they get across the table? Not many.

I could easily say that I could down your kopta before it does anything with my lootas if I sieze initiative. Does that make it useless? Not really. It seems to me that you're just trying to invalidate my strategy purely on the basis that you don't like MANZ and don't like your opinion challenged.

Im very new to orks but i like mehanobz how can you not like ork terminators id stick 4 of em in a truck with ghaz move foward with my kan wall then boost fowrd turn 2 call the waagh and get krumpin will this work also are walkers effected by the waaagh

Walkers are unaffected, I believe. The kans definitely are, as it only affects orks, not grots/gretchin. I advise putting the MANZ in a transport because of their low slogging speed.

TheHarleqwin wrote:You have a rock-paper-scissors argument going, which really means nothing. You could make the same type of argument about how to trump any other kind of unit in the game. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that while yes, you can do that, how likely is it that every army you face will have something to turboboost at your MANZ before they get across the table? Not many.

I could easily say that I could down your kopta before it does anything with my lootas if I sieze initiative. Does that make it useless? Not really. It seems to me that you're just trying to invalidate my strategy purely on the basis that you don't like MANZ and don't like your opinion challenged.

No, that's not a rock vs scissors argument. Every single army in the game has some sort of unit that can appear next to your battlewagon turn one or two and force grotznik do disembark, at minimal costs. Many of those units would be going there anyways, to melta your wagons. If your opponents don't see that glaring weakness they can easily exploit, great for you. A chimera driving up and simply dropping 10 random guardsmen in your way will force him to disembark. A landspeeder will force him to disembark. A suiciding unit of flamers/chaos terminators/DoA marines will force him to disembark. And that's just counting units that have chance of winning against him. And there is absolutely nothing your lootaz can do about that, except wiping the entire enemy army off the board in turn one. Seizing the initiative has absolutely no bearing on the kopta at all.

You simply can not compensate the dok's weaknesses by putting him a transport. For that reason you should never add him to a unit of MANz, as they make each other weaker. Having no control over a unit that is moving slower than any other unit on the board outweighs FNP multiple times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheHarleqwin wrote:Walkers are unaffected, I believe. The kans definitely are, as it only affects orks, not grots/gretchin. I advise putting the MANZ in a transport because of their low slogging speed.

Only infantry models get fleet from the Waaagh!. So no stormboyz or bikers either.

Crimson-King2120 wrote:Im very new to orks but i like mehanobz how can you not like ork terminators id stick 4 of em in a truck with ghaz move foward with my kan wall then boost fowrd turn 2 call the waagh and get krumpin will this work also are walkers effected by the waaagh

it seems good, but main rule of thumb is ghaz with boyz not nobz. ghaz or really any warboss with a power claw will kill almost anything it hits (assuming the warboss isn't killed by str 10 before he gets his hit in, which isn't an issue for ghaz) nobz also kill almost anythign in close combat. what are you going to run into that needs 4 mega nobz (4 str 9 attacks each on charge so 16 pk attacks. total) really if it was going to survive this then it was going then you aught not have charged it. also mega nobz are not termies, termies are very different than mega nobz

mega nobz - lack invunerable save, terrible leadership, lack weapons upgrades beyond kombi wepaons which are assault resulting in slow and purposful being only to slow them down, the positive is they have 2 wounds but due to lack of inv save they often get taken out in one hit due to power fists or failed saves to missles/rokkits. and the higher base attack., and can catch and wipe in an assault (though you have to argue every time because peopel think they are termies)

termies - more weapons options with cyclonemssles being incredibly awesome.. relentless instead of slow and purposful so they move faster, have a 5+ inv save, atsknf so they aren't caughtand rally when they get away with thier high initiative. downside is 1 wound so one failed save to a low powered weapon kills em, lower base attack number so 3 on charrge and 2 on regular attacks. and they can't chase, so if they charge in and the unit rallies and escapes it can charge them again the next turn.

main similarity is a 2+ armour but they behave completely differently on the table.

^Are you sure termies are only one attack each? I could have sworn they had two...

loota boy wrote:^Are you sure termies are only one attack each? I could have sworn they had two...

fized, yea you're right, sorry i meant 1 less base attack

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