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Without reading a lot of this thread because most of it is childish bickering:

Some retail chains(like Gamestop, where I have worked) have a policy of not accepting cards if they don't swipe. This is mostly to save their own asses.

I once had a customer who through a huge fit about his card not swiping right. I entered it manually just to get him out of the store before he made a bigger scene. An hour later, my store manager saw the receipt and promptly told me that if I ever did it again(since this was the first time and I hadn't been told not to) that I would be fired immediately.

So it could be that the guy didn't want to lose his job over your purchase. Could he have explained why he couldn't enter it manually? sure, and he should have.


As to people who claim to work retail and don't know how to enter cards manually: really? Were you alive when cards were read physically? EVERY POS system has the capacity to accept a credit card where the cashier has to enter the numbers by hand, should the card reader break.

What happens when a stores card reader breaks? are they supposed to just stop taking sales until it's fixed? Do they close the store until tech support shows up?

Damned kids these days and their techno dependence.

Exactly, Aerethan! If he couldn't manually enter for any reason (including not knowing how like someone in this thread) that would have been acceptable. But to re-swipe it after being told that doesn't work is insane! But from some of the stuff the owner said today, I'm under the impression that others have complained about him and I won't be seeing him again. He also spent the whole time ignoring me as a customer to talk with his girlfriend (which I ignored, because for all I know, she's going through something and needs him more than I need a codex.)

While the OP may or may not have an attitude problem, which I can't comment on since I do not know him, I fail to see what antagonizing and provoking him is going to accomplish.

TheHarleqwin wrote:While the OP may or may not have an attitude problem, which I can't comment on since I do not know him, I fail to see what antagonizing and provoking him is going to accomplish.

Thank you.

Radiation wrote:Get a new card. Stop pestering store clerks.

It's not like they're paid or anything.

Emerett wrote:

Radiation wrote:Get a new card. Stop pestering store clerks.

It's not like they're paid or anything.

My thoughts exactly. But, I do have a new card now anyway. So if the fellow is there again, he won't have to work too hard for his money.

...regardless of all the other circumstances the cashier should have tried to enter the card number.

It is amazing what gamers will bicker over on the internet.

Tronbot2600 wrote:...regardless of all the other circumstances the cashier should have tried to enter the card number.

It is amazing what gamers will bicker over on the internet.

To be honest, my biggest problem isn't even that he didn't enter it (even though that is what he is paid to do). Even an "I can't" without an acceptable excuse would have been enough. But to swipe it again!

Bwhahahahahaha

similar thing happened to my sister at wal mart trying to buy a picture frame.

The scanner wouldn't read the bar code

Cashier: Computer won't read it

My Sister: Just Type it in.

Cashier: Huh? but it won't scan.

My Sister: I know, you can punch in the bar code numbers manually.

Cashier: But I can't sell you something if I can't scan it.

My Sister: That's why the item has numbers, in case the bar code does not work.

Cashier: How much was it?

My Sister: 10 bucks

Cashier: Just give me the 10 + tax.


Not exact quotes, but a good rundown what happened.

Not sure if this was laziness, stupidity, she was new, having a bad day.

At the very least, ask for help if you don't know what you are doing.

But if it actually truly said "declined" then there is no point in typing in the numbers. The reader read the strip, it got the numbers, it send them along, and it got a "declined" result back.

Why would/should he type in a number if he already knows it will not work?

"Card read error", yes type in the number because it didn't take it.

"Declined", it took the number, it could just not authorize the transaction. No point in typing the number in at that point.

Entering in the number manually doesn't overcome 'declined' it only overcomes 'it won't swipe'

OP said he was DECLINED.

also credit card companies charge the store a higher fee for less secure standards which increase the chances of fraud. Stores who do not require signatures to speed checkout pay higher. Stores who punch in numbers manually also pay more. It is not his job to enter it in manually as he probably has store policies he needs to stick to. You do not get to choose that the store will take a less secure payment method to take the risk of fraud being put back on them or losing more to fees.

Seriously people, take your entitled abusive attitude of people working for a living elsewhere. Put yourselves in their shoes.

Declined =! can't swipe
Declined =! can't swipe
Declined =! can't swipe

If your card is declined, call your bank, don't pitch a scene at the store. 9/10 times it isn't the stores fault and punching it in manually will do nothing for declined.

nkelsch wrote:If your card is declined, call your bank, don't pitch a scene at the store. 9/10 times it isn't the stores fault and punching it in manually will do nothing for declined.

Without backing evidence of 90% failure rate, I call shens.

The fact that he asked for the employee to try typing it in and the employee DID NOT even acknowledge the request is seemingly more why OP is upset. OP even stated:

PlagueJester wrote: To be honest, my biggest problem isn't even that he didn't enter it (even though that is what he is paid to do). Even an "I can't" without an acceptable excuse would have been enough. But to swipe it again!

Acknowledging a customers request and responding "Sir, typing in the numbers is unlikely to make a difference, I can try swiping it again, however" would make a world of difference in this case.


Being curt with customers is not a right of someone working retail. Not everyone likes their job. That does not entitle them to ignore their job responsibilities or basic customer service.

gunslingerpro wrote:

Being curt with customers is not a right of someone working retail. Not everyone likes their job. That does not entitle them to ignore their job responsibilities or basic customer service.

And Customers are not entitled to threaten them with throttling because they don't explain their actions, especially someone who as far as the cashier knows is using a stolen card or trying credit card fraud which the store would have to eat. If the OP was as 'nice' as his post fails to suggest and about to commit a felony physically assaulting the dude, maybe he didn't want to confront a possible criminal using a stolen card?

Oh and someone working retail can be as 'curt' as they wish, especially when they are a non-customer with a card which is declined. It may not be smart in all situations, but stores don't have to take your money or do business with you, especially if you are being rude or making a scene. Considering the OPs bad attitude, violent temper and warped view of how to handle a minor inconvenience, I could see valid reasons not to 'get into it' with him and just try to get him to leave.

Being rude customers is not anyone's right. I will always advocate for working folk when I see a customer being unreasonable in public often because there are things the working person can't say.

And you don't have the right to have your number manually punched in. Declined is declined and they don't want to accept the risk fo fraud. Imagine if the cashier said something like "Sorry, declined may be an error, but we don't want to accept the risk the card is stolen or you are committing fraud." The OP probably would have murdered the poor guy for dare questioning him from his previous statements... Simply telling him it is declined and nothing more is the least confrontational way to deal with a potential thief.

Aerethan wrote:As to people who claim to work retail and don't know how to enter cards manually: really? Were you alive when cards were read physically? EVERY POS system has the capacity to accept a credit card where the cashier has to enter the numbers by hand, should the card reader break.

What happens when a stores card reader breaks? are they supposed to just stop taking sales until it's fixed? Do they close the store until tech support shows up?

Damned kids these days and their techno dependence.

I'm sure the hardware functionality exists, but there is no software support for it. Once I hit that EFTPOS button, the only option I, as a cashier, had was to press the 'escape' button which brought up the option for a manual offline. A manual offline is where you take a physical impression of a card on a piece of carbon paper, and was only done in times of power outage. There was no option to enter a card number into the register.

And as already said, if the 'declined' error is recieved, then there is no problem with the card being read. It's reading fine, and it's telling you it's declined.

I have had it happen where I go to pay with a card, and it swipes, and they tell me its declined.

I know it is NOT due to insufficient funds.

Here's the thing, it is NOT the clerk's fault.

So I ask for the printout. Do you know how many times it has been a "communication error" or no info because it didn't swipe? MOST of the time. So I say, oh, wow, yeah, its not declined, its a comm error. Can you try again? OR I'll use another card. To let them know, I am sure to say, "you scared me, I thought I'd have to go home and investigated if false charges were on my card"...

Any time I have looked at the printout and it says "declined", I thank the clerk, step aside, and call the bank. Right there. You know what I have found out?

- It triggered an automatic security algorithm because it was "out of pattern"
- There actually were unauthorized charges and the card had been locked down
- My bank was using some sort of system that didn't communicate correctly with the store's system

In those cases, either the bank releases the security hold, or I pull out ANOTHER card and use it. Done.

That all said, it is extremely exasperating when the store clerks don't bother to look at the code and just say its declined. *I* need to know the reason so *I* can troubleshoot with the bank. The other crappy part is when I say there is no reason for a hard decline... and the clerks roll their eyes, or give that dead, "yeah, right" stare. I understand why they do. But I hate being put in the same category as "those people" when there are valid reasons for card declination that has NOTHING to do with my ability to manage my money. But the reason that is the assumption? Everyone who can't manage their own money claims its a problem with the card, not them. Everyone.

But, yes, seriously, it does no good to get mad at the register jockeys. Even if they didn't look at the code. They are not there to troubleshoot my bank or the IT system. So, that said, when it occurs, I only inform them that the code means a "comm error" or something so they may have problems with other cards, or can we try again. Most are more than happy to do so and usually it goes through fine.

Anyway, TL;DR

OP yes it is crappy when a card "decline" occurs, but there are many reasons. I know it is aggravating.

Yes there are crappy clerks who assume any problem is because you, the customer, don't pay their bills and really don't care to help at all. But many times they are more than willing to print it out so you can troubleshoot.

Several here have mentioned that "no manual entry" is a common store policy, and I have to agree. When I ran a register, we used to have to do a clicky-clack swipe imprint of the card when a manual entry occurred to prove we had the physical card in hand. Otherwise, there is no proof that signature was verified and store has more liability issues for fraud (I don't know the details TBH). But it is infinitely easier for a scammer to call in a number than to have the physical card.

Edits - spelling

nkelsch wrote:I will always advocate for working folk when I see a customer being unreasonable in public often because there are things the working person can't say.

Which is why you come across as heavily biased and seem to not understand that the cashier was acting like a jerk in the first place, something that, amazingly, tends to trigger angry reactions.

Hyd wrote:

nkelsch wrote:I will always advocate for working folk when I see a customer being unreasonable in public often because there are things the working person can't say.

Which is why you come across as heavily biased and seem to not understand that the cashier was acting like a jerk in the first place, something that, amazingly, tends to trigger angry reactions.

LOL yeah, there was miscommunication in the situation described by OP, which comes down to the register jockey NOT communicating at all. It is completely reasonable to become aggravated when someone is passive aggressively being a jerk. In fact, the passive aggressive game is a Maryland specialty. Be passive and do you best to anger someone, and when they get mad, you WIN!

Also, there are too many assumptions that the register dude actually received a "decline" code. There is no proof of that because OP didn't get the printout.

Many times, "decline" is a short hand way of saying "didn't work". Just because the folks in this thread actually care to understand codes doesn't mean anyone else does, and in fact, this is rare. This is why I always ask for a copy of the printout so I can, as I tell them, "call the bank and figure out what is going on. I need the decline code so I can tell the bank exactly what is wrong."

Gymnogyps wrote:

Hyd wrote:

nkelsch wrote:I will always advocate for working folk when I see a customer being unreasonable in public often because there are things the working person can't say.

Which is why you come across as heavily biased and seem to not understand that the cashier was acting like a jerk in the first place, something that, amazingly, tends to trigger angry reactions.

LOL yeah, there was miscommunication in the situation described by OP, which comes down to the register jockey NOT communicating at all. It is completely reasonable to become aggravated when someone is passive aggressively being a jerk. In fact, the passive aggressive game is a Maryland specialty. Be passive and do you best to anger someone, and when they get mad, you WIN!

Also, there are too many assumptions that the register dude actually received a "decline" code. There is no proof of that because OP didn't get the printout.

Many times, "decline" is a short hand way of saying "didn't work". Just because the folks in this thread actually care to understand codes doesn't mean anyone else does, and in fact, this is rare. This is why I always ask for a copy of the printout so I can, as I tell them, "call the bank and figure out what is going on. I need the decline code so I can tell the bank exactly what is wrong."

And many times there is no code, and many times it says theft or fraud which leaves a cashier in a dangerous situation dealing with a potential criminal who could turn dangerous, considering the OPs attitude, it sounds like his visible anger and threatening manner might have been all the cashier needed to 'not engage' the declined customer on the issue as not to anger him further or risk dealing with a theft.

People by default don't give you a printout, they usually get mad and yell a lot and at that point, the customer needs to leave the store.

And there is still the perfectly reasonable aspect where he could have been doing his job and following store policy.

All we have is an internet tough-guy story advocating committing a felony when he doesn't get his way VS a cashier who can't defend himself whose actions are perfectly reasonable and explainable in many situations... I still declare shenanigans on the OP and believe his card was declined for legitimate reasons outside the cashiers control, he was an angry violent-looking jerk to the cashier and the OP lacks understanding how creditcard systems work and is just another of the hundreds of "whaaaat? I am richer than bill gates, I can never be declined!" entitled customers who make a scene instead of calling their bank.

If the op can make unreasonable stories attacking someone with a one-sided story with no evidence, then I can totally discount everything he says and believe the OP is a liar and the cashier was justified and reasonable based upon the unreasonableness of the OP's post.

Hyd wrote:

nkelsch wrote:I will always advocate for working folk when I see a customer being unreasonable in public often because there are things the working person can't say.

Which is why you come across as heavily biased and seem to not understand that the cashier was acting like a jerk in the first place, something that, amazingly, tends to trigger angry reactions.

Why was the cashier acting like a jerk?

For what it's worth, my card has been declined a number of times, most often caused by an unusual purchase that the credit card company flagged as being out of my normal habits (e.g., gas purchase in a different city, when I used the company travel agency to book and pay for the flight). They put a hold on the card until I can call/text to tell them the transaction was legitimate.

Edit - nevermind, pointless.

When I've worked retail aand had the credit card swipe problems I always tried the swipe a few times (even with a long line, because my boss WANTS the money and, the customer wants to spend it.) If that wouldn't work, I would manually enter the information, a few times if neccessary. If th card was still declined I'd tell the customer that they need to call their ban, usually they would give up or give me another card. I was always told to try a few times and if it didn't try it manually. That same process was told to me by a corporate video rental store and an independant video rental store. what I took from that means "if the customer wants to part with their money make it happen." I believe the OP was thinking about choking the poor guy, the same we we think about telling our bosses how stupid they are. His comment about being able to buy whatever amount of stock was not meant to say how well endowed his account is rather, to merely say that he has enough to cover his purchases.
However, my last comments may not be as truthful as I believe as I don't know the OP. I tend to think the clerk was just trying to be a Randal (not the funny version, just the spiteful version).

marielle wrote:Why was the cashier acting like a jerk?

My first post (and, incidentally, the OP) covers this, but it seems a number of people stopped reading it after the first line.

Hyd wrote:Dude goes to pay with his card. Employee scans card. Card payment is declined. Dude suggests to enter the card's information manually. Employee scans card again and stares at dude while repeating "Declined" like an obstructive bureaucrat.

Those are the facts as explained by PlagueJester. With the elements we have, I see nothing that warranted the employee's behaviour. Even if he thought he was dealing with a stolen card, it was not the proper attitude to defuse the situation.
I am not saying it would have justified hitting him, but nothing justified his attitude a priori (and there is no such thing as a so-called "overreaction" retroactively validating it).

nkelsch wrote:
And many times there is no code, and many times it says theft or fraud which leaves a cashier in a dangerous situation dealing with a potential criminal who could turn dangerous, considering the OPs attitude, it sounds like his visible anger and threatening manner might have been all the cashier needed to 'not engage' the declined customer on the issue as not to anger him further or risk dealing with a theft.

There is a difference between not engaging, and patently ignoring the request made by the customer. A simple 'I can't enter this in manually' would have done much more to come the situation than saying nothing and swiping again.

And there is still the perfectly reasonable aspect where he could have been doing his job and following store policy.

For some reason I doubt he was following store policy by not saying anything other than 'declined'.

All we have is an internet tough-guy story advocating committing a felony when he doesn't get his way VS a cashier who can't defend himself whose actions are perfectly reasonable and explainable in many situations

Perfectly reasonable to whom? His actions were neither A. reasonable by a customer service standard or B. explainable given the information about the situation we have been given. To be reasonable, he just has to explain why manually entering the card will not work. To be explainable, we need a policy. Never in my life of working/interacting in retail have I ever heard that ignoring a customer and making them more upset rather than trying to calm and explain things to be a policy. Ever.

I still declare shenanigans on the OP and believe his card was declined for legitimate reasons outside the cashiers control, he was an angry violent-looking jerk to the cashier and the OP lacks understanding how creditcard systems work and is just another of the hundreds of "whaaaat? I am richer than bill gates, I can never be declined!" entitled customers who make a scene instead of calling their bank.

I think you've failed to read the responses from the OP that stated he was not upset about his card being declined, rather the manner in which the cashier handled it. He wanted a manual punch in, and if not, an explanation. He received neither. I would be upset (albeit not to OP levels) as well.

If the op can make unreasonable stories attacking someone with a one-sided story with no evidence, then I can totally discount everything he says and believe the OP is a liar and the cashier was justified and reasonable based upon the unreasonableness of the OP's post.

Yes, yes you can. But to what benefit?

Everyone can just read Gymnopops' two posts and this thread is done.

Yes, the clerk seems to have had a failure of communications skills in not attempting a manual input. Yes, the OP's anger reaction might have been excessive. It's really impossible for any of us to say. We weren't there, we can't read their expressions or vocal tones, and it could be that neither or both of them were out of line. There's absolutely no need to be hostile or rude to other posters. If you can't offer constructive criticism or information without being rude, don't post.

Gymnogyps wrote:I have had it happen where I go to pay with a card, and it swipes, and they tell me its declined.

I know it is NOT due to insufficient funds.

Here's the thing, it is NOT the clerk's fault.

So I ask for the printout. Do you know how many times it has been a "communication error" or no info because it didn't swipe? MOST of the time. So I say, oh, wow, yeah, its not declined, its a comm error. Can you try again? OR I'll use another card. To let them know, I am sure to say, "you scared me, I thought I'd have to go home and investigated if false charges were on my card"...

Any time I have looked at the printout and it says "declined", I thank the clerk, step aside, and call the bank. Right there. You know what I have found out?

- It triggered an automatic security algorithm because it was "out of pattern"
- There actually were unauthorized charges and the card had been locked down
- My bank was using some sort of system that didn't communicate correctly with the store's system

In those cases, either the bank releases the security hold, or I pull out ANOTHER card and use it. Done.

That all said, it is extremely exasperating when the store clerks don't bother to look at the code and just say its declined. *I* need to know the reason so *I* can troubleshoot with the bank. The other crappy part is when I say there is no reason for a hard decline... and the clerks roll their eyes, or give that dead, "yeah, right" stare. I understand why they do. But I hate being put in the same category as "those people" when there are valid reasons for card declination that has NOTHING to do with my ability to manage my money. But the reason that is the assumption? Everyone who can't manage their own money claims its a problem with the card, not them. Everyone.

But, yes, seriously, it does no good to get mad at the register jockeys. Even if they didn't look at the code. They are not there to troubleshoot my bank or the IT system. So, that said, when it occurs, I only inform them that the code means a "comm error" or something so they may have problems with other cards, or can we try again. Most are more than happy to do so and usually it goes through fine.

Anyway, TL;DR

OP yes it is crappy when a card "decline" occurs, but there are many reasons. I know it is aggravating.

Yes there are crappy clerks who assume any problem is because you, the customer, don't pay their bills and really don't care to help at all. But many times they are more than willing to print it out so you can troubleshoot.

Several here have mentioned that "no manual entry" is a common store policy, and I have to agree. When I ran a register, we used to have to do a clicky-clack swipe imprint of the card when a manual entry occurred to prove we had the physical card in hand. Otherwise, there is no proof that signature was verified and store has more liability issues for fraud (I don't know the details TBH). But it is infinitely easier for a scammer to call in a number than to have the physical card.

Edits - spelling

I've had my credit card with a clear balance (as in zero owing on it and an $8000 limit) declined because the POS terminal (Point-of-Sale - but can also means Piece-of-Sh*t in this case) had issues chatting with the bank network (it was on a shared line, and if another terminal was in use, it bounced the second transaction as if declined).

Waiting and running it through again after they had finished the first transaction generally worked, though.

It's funny how many people know every POS terminal ever made so well that they confidently conclude that DECLINED can only mean insufficient funds. Cards can indeed get DECLINED results on bad swipes on some terminals.

I'd say go with partial store purchases and partial internet purchases. The OP is in the US, so Miniature Market is what? 25% off + free shipping fpr $100+ orders?

I think the healthiest way forward for the hobby is internet retailers and the money saved used to build terrain and rent club space with other gamers. Like how most of the non-GW gaming scene is in the UK. Lots of ways to meet up with local gamers rather than just at stores too.

I wouldn't use him anymore. If you play at his store maybe give them a chance to fix things for you but rudeness is unacceptable.

Norn King wrote:If you want to buy something, surely he has to comply? Seems a bit weird. Maybe you could withdraw cash and pay him with that. Buying on the 'net is fine but i for one hate the wait. Once i bought something from Russia and it took over 40 days to get here. That being said, you can find some great bargains on ebay and other sites.

In Australia A store owner is legally allowed to decline a purchase - he does not have to sell anything to you and he is NOT bound by advertising. (it looks really, really bad if he doesn't follow his advertisements though.) I believe the same will stand in the land of the free.

Scipio Africanus wrote:In Australia A store owner is legally allowed to decline a purchase - he does not have to sell anything to you and he is NOT bound by advertising. (it looks really, really bad if he doesn't follow his advertisements though.) I believe the same will stand in the land of the free.

It does. Businesses are perfectly right to deny a sale to anyone if they so decline. Not being bound by advertising, though, is a lot more restrictive - essentially you don't have to honor blatant printing errors or typos, but you'd have a problem with a state attorney general not honoring a validly published sale. Most advertising circulars are loaded with escape clauses, though, such as some franchises may not participate, etc etc.

So far as the OP goes, I have definitely had my card declined despite quite sufficient funds - not refuse to swipe, but actually decline. Just a week ago, as a matter of fact, I stopped at Lowe's and bought a $2 plumbing piece, and my card was rejected - the cashier advised all cards from my local credit union had been doing it that morning. I can't imagine having her manually type in the credit card number would have generated a different result.