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That is incorrect. It's maximum 12" movement after embarking/disemberking.
edit: BRB pg70

copper.talos wrote:That is incorrect. It's maximum 12" movement after embarking/disemberking.
edit: BRB pg70

He is still supporting the fact that you can declare a flat out movement, not use it, and then move 12 and disembark units instead, even though he's already measured 13-36 inches from the transport. Though what I was stating was that the rule says "You cannot disembark if the transport moves or is going to move Flat Out."

I was responding to what time wizard wrote: "Disembark the troops and then move flat out. " which is forbidden.

And in general you don't "declare" a flat out move. You move the vehicle and if it is over 12" then it has moved flat out. So it is strictly up to the player to not abuse checking movement range to actually check weapon range.

Yes, its true when you measure to move you can also see other measurements that can be useful to shooting. You're also not allowed to pre-measure, but I personally think its silly to pretend we're all stupid and don't know how to do math for the sake of appearing that we cant' deduce a pre-measure sometimes.

When firing you might shoot your longer range guns first, to get an idea if your shorter range guns will reach various targets. This is just smart play. Just make sure you're not holding the measure out for anything but legitimate measurements.

If you just measured a 36" range gun and found the target is within 24", no need to pretend you don't also know that the unit you have right next to it with the 24" range can also hit the same target. It's OoooKaaaay.

copper.talos wrote:I was responding to what time wizard wrote: "Disembark the troops and then move flat out. " which is forbidden.

And in general you don't "declare" a flat out move. You move the vehicle and if it is over 12" then it has moved flat out. So it is strictly up to the player to not abuse checking movement range to actually check weapon range.

Sorry for the confusion copper.talos, I said "you cannot;" and put the semicolon there to indicate you could not do either of those things, but I could have written it clearer.

I was telling Jstncloud why the rule said 'you could not disembark from a transport that moved, or was going to move, flat out' was to reinforce that you could not disembard troops and then move flat out. Declaring, articulating or thinking out loud of where you planned to make a move had no bearing on the actual movement of the unit.

Again to all, I am not advocating or proposing anyone should play this way. My point was simply that there was nothing per se in the rules to make it illegal.

If your opponent measured out 24" and didn't move his unit, before you cry foul and accuse them of pre-measuring, realize that it might be a legitimate measurement made within the scope of the rules.

It is virtually impossible to prove otherwise.

It makes sense now. I was wondering how you could make such an obvious mistake.

time wizard wrote:

Luide wrote:Actually, the die is cast when you choose the unit, which you have implicitly done by measuring from it. The moment you do that, you're committed to either A) moving that unit or B) stating that the unit will not move this movement phase. Those are your only options.

There is nothing in the rules to support this.

Actually, there is. (edit: I removed hostile language, no reason to be so uncivil)

BRB, page 3 wrote:
"In general. players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy, to work out a rule's area of effect, when eploying their forces, etc)."

This means that you're not allowed to start measuring from the unit, before you have chosen to move that specific unit. (Unless there is a special rule that calls for it)

time wizard wrote:
The rule only states that once I start moving a unit, I have to finish its move before I go on to move another unit.
Measuring a unit's move does not equal moving it. Granted, you usually choose a model, measure and move it, then go on to another, but there is nothing in the rules preventing you from measuring a distance from one unit, then measuring a distance from another unit, then moving the first unit.

Brb page 3 explicitly disallows this measuring like this.

time wizard wrote:
What's to stop me from looking at a unit on the table, saying "I'm going to move them forward." then looking at another unit and saying, "First though, I'm going to move this unit to get them out of the other unit's way." Nothing.

Absolutely nothing. Assuming you haven't measured anything yet. If you measure, you're committed to moving that unit, as you're not allowed to measure anything, unless rules require it.

time wizard wrote:
A unit doesn't begin moving until you physically pick up the models and move them, or roll for a difficult terrain test for the unit.

You're not allowed to measure anything, unless rules require it. If you measure 6" from unit A (and unit A doesn't have 6" area effect special rule/wargear), you have implicitly chosen to move that unit. Or you cheated by measuring when you weren't allowed to do so.

time wizard wrote:
The rule says that models can't disembark from a transport that moved or is going to move flat out to make it clear that you can't disembark from a fast transport and then move it flat out.
Nowhere in the rules does declaring how you intend to move a unit, or saying how you might move it equate to actually moving the unit.

Luide wrote: Actually, there is. You just assumed that you are right and didn't bother checking BRB.

BRB, page 3 wrote:
"In general. players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy, to work out a rule's area of effect, when eploying their forces, etc)."

This means that you're not allowed to start measuring from the unit, before you have chosen to move that specific unit. (Unless there is a special rule that calls for it)

I did in fact check the rulebook. I suggest you check page 11 which talks about the more specifc Movement phase.

"It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, then change your mind and decide to move it someplace else {etc}"

Luide wrote: If you measure, you're committed to moving that unit, as you're not allowed to measure anything, unless rules require it.

There is nothing in the rules that states this.

Luide wrote: You're not allowed to measure anything, unless rules require you to do so. And until you have committed to moving an unit, you don't need to measure from it.

First part is correct. Second part is incorrect. The rule on page 11, as I have quoted, allows you to do this.

Luide wrote:Fact still remains: The tactic you advocated is plain cheating.
You're either 1) measuring, when you haven't got a permission to do so by rules (measuring distance from the Trukk before choosing to move that unit) or 2) going back and changing move you've already made by previous unit (Select Trukk, decide not move it, Disembark boyz, move Trukk).

I'm sorry, but when you say above, "The tactic you advocated ", you quoted many snippets of my previous posts, but you must have missed this one,

time wizard wrote:Again to all, I am not advocating or proposing anyone should play this way. My point was simply that there was nothing per se in the rules to make it illegal.

I can measure the movement distance of a unit behind another unit, see where I would want to place them, then 'select' the unit in front, measure and move that unit to get it out of the way. Once that unit has completed its move, I can now 'select' the rear unit and move them. Perfectly within the rules.

Saying that I cannot measure a unit's move until I actually begin to move them is not supported by the rules. If it is, then please provide the quoted rule, or at least the page and section so I can refer to it.

time wizard wrote:

Luide wrote: Actually, there is. You just assumed that you are right and didn't bother checking BRB.

BRB, page 3 wrote:
"In general. players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy, to work out a rule's area of effect, when eploying their forces, etc)."

This means that you're not allowed to start measuring from the unit, before you have chosen to move that specific unit. (Unless there is a special rule that calls for it)

I did in fact check the rulebook. I suggest you check page 11 which talks about the more specifc Movement phase.

"It is perfectly fine to measure a unit's move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else (even the opposite way entirely!) or decide not to move it at all."

Emphasis and posting rest of rule mine.
Yes. You're allowed to move it (that specific unit) somewhere else. Or to choose not to move it at all. You're not allowed to measure from the original unit, decide not to "move it at all" and then select and move some other unit and then go back to and move the original unit again.
So this means with normal infantry, you're allowed to measure 6" bubble from each model after you have chosen to that unit for movement. You're not required to move them though, but if you don't, you cannot select that unit again in that movement phase.

time wizard wrote:

Luide wrote: You're not allowed to measure anything, unless rules require you to do so. And until you have committed to moving an unit, you don't need to measure from it.

First part is correct. Second part is incorrect. The rule on page 11, as I have quoted, allows you to do this.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. It does allow you to measure the full movement distance of the unit to all directions, but nowhere does it give you permission to measure other units movement. brb, pg 11

time wizard wrote:

Luide wrote:Fact still remains: The tactic you advocated is plain cheating.
You're either 1) measuring, when you haven't got a permission to do so by rules (measuring distance from the Trukk before choosing to move that unit) or 2) going back and changing move you've already made by previous unit (Select Trukk, decide not move it, Disembark boyz, move Trukk).

I'm sorry, but when you say above, "The tactic you advocated ", you quoted many snippets of my previous posts, but you must have missed this one,

time wizard wrote:Again to all, I am not advocating or proposing anyone should play this way. My point was simply that there was nothing per se in the rules to make it illegal.

My apologies. I will retract all those from my previous posts

time wizard wrote:
I can measure the movement distance of a unit behind another unit, see where I would want to place them, then 'select' the unit in front, measure and move that unit to get it out of the way. Once that unit has completed its move, I can now 'select' the rear unit and move them. Perfectly within the rules.
Saying that I cannot measure a unit's move until I actually begin to move them is not supported by the rules. If it is, then please provide the quoted rule, or at least the page and section so I can refer to it.

"In general. players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy, to work out a rule's area of effect, when deploying their forces, etc)." Brb page 3.
So before you choose to move the unit in back (brb pg 11), you have no permission to measure distances from it (unless unit in the back has special rules with area of effect, etc). What you're allowed to do though, is select the front unit, measure it's movement towards the rear unit and continue moving the front unit forward. And after that move the rear unit.

time wizard wrote:
So until you actually start moving a unit, do rules require you to measure it's possible movement in any way? They don't.

Right. But rules don't allow you to measure from a unit (exceptions apply) before you start moving that unit either.

Disclaimer: This isn't how I'd actually play, except in extremely competitive enviroment. Only place where I'd pick on the "measure from unit A means you now have to move unit A" is if opponent tried to do some dirty premeasuring tricks.

Thank you time wizard, good call.




editing to add:
On the explanation, in case that confused anyone. . .else.