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You could try taking another Prince with just the MoN and using him as a distraction. They take a lot of firepower to stop, which would be better served taking out your Rhinos; and if he does manage to make the other side of the table he is powerful enough that he should do at least some damage. Quite expensive for a meat shield though but its worth a thought.

The other HQ choice that I think is interesting is the Sorc but once he has been properly kitted out you would be as well to take a second Prince.

One more thing, take lash! Not really, especially since it has been nerfed.

I do find the homogenised and commitee designed internet lists funny though.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing a pure god list. In fact, every CSM player would do well to try playing a pure list of each type to learn that there's very little really "broken" with the codex in general. The only thing really broken about it is that it's very difficult to make an all-comers list with a single god while staying competitive. That's difficult, not impossible. Each patron does some things well, and makes sacrifices to do so.

Now, to your list of problems. Daemon Prince is being shot up...yes, yes he is. You play against semi-intelligent people, which is good. There's three ways to have him not shot up that are actually effective. One, don't run him...initially, place him in reserve to come out later. Two, run two of them and be careful where you place them (duck and dodge behind buildings\rocks\tanks\large babies\etc.). Three, put something more threatening on the board. Which comes to my next option for the whole HQ debacle.

Have you seriously considered the named HQ's, staying fluffy, typhus? He does remarkably well when you run him correctly...which in my experience involves a land raider and four of his favorite buddies, typically decked to the teeth with nastiness for a close combat assault. Run them shooty if you'd prefer, throw in a flamer, doesn't really matter. They're a nasty bunch to throw in your opponents face.

Also, to the OP, you keep mentioning a standard lord with MoN and a daemon weapon...it's not a bad idea, but the nurgle daemon weapon is very situational. It's purpose is strictly high toughness targets, which are typically monstrous creatures. However, there's a fun idea to play around with if you felt like doing some modeling. Nurgle Lord, with a demon weapon, wait for it...on a bike. Trust me when I say a lot of fun can be had. And bikes can still be fluffy. Plus, you'll get a T4(6) lord. No eternal warrior, so he'll still die to a well placed rocket, but the fun which can be had! Zoom around, turbo-boosting right up to your target, and assault that big bad boy. Oh, don't forget, if you roll a 1 on the demon weapon, you get 0 attacks and suffer a wound with no armor save allowed. You said you were failing 2+ armor saves, so if you roll a lot of 1's...yeah, dont take demon weapons .

Definitely keep the oblits, try and keep 4 troops if possible with all your changes, and a nurgle list will do fine. Make sure the DP's have wings, and seriously try and squeeze two into the list.

Aipoch wrote:There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing a pure god list. In fact, every CSM player would do well to try playing a pure list of each type to learn that there's very little really "broken" with the codex in general. The only thing really broken about it is that it's very difficult to make an all-comers list with a single god while staying competitive. That's difficult, not impossible. Each patron does some things well, and makes sacrifices to do so.

There is absolutely nothing right about doing it either. There are no free champions, bonus summoning roles, free weapon upgrades, changed force organization charts or any bonus at all. Limiting yourself to a legion meant something in the older editions. It means nothing in this edition other than all your guys are painted the same color. And nothing is stopping you from painting your berzerkers green anyway.

The only point I'll concede is that it's a debatable topic best suited for it's own thread, and isn't worth ninja'ing this one.

Thought about something else too. To the OP, did you ever think of running chosen marines? They can certainly be nurgle themed and get access to some potent weaponry. Might provide some useful sneaky tactics as well with infiltrate ability.

i wasn't planning on posting in this thread until i got some more games in to try out the help i had gotten. But some of the topics brought up demand some interaction.

First off, I don't care if this thread gets high jacked with the mono god argument. It actually helps to stimulate ideas and get more thoughts out of people. Personally i like the arguments back and forth, just keep it civil.

Second, I am truly sick of people telling me to bring lash, YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT. Hey bring a squad of X, replace a squad of Y, ANYTHING and i would listen and judge as to what i will do. But the same d-bags keep coming in, and not even reading the thread. I said don't bring up lash at least three times in this very thread. I know the d-bag players want me to bring lash and its the worlds best thing for chaos and its the only way chaos will win and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, get off your high horses and start reading the damn thread. I WILL NOT EVER RUN LASH! unless i run an EC army, then of course i would. But i will not bring a lash prince in a nurgle list. I hate to tell you ares holes, ITS A MONO GOD LIST. So shove the lash up your butt and get over it. I don't care.

Third, A mono god list has to allow for fewer troops, less in each squad and the lack of long range weapons. Its easy to do if you don't dump all your points into the named troops, Plague marines, thousand sons and so on. A normal chaos space marine squad with an icon belongs in a mono god list and can cover what the other untis can't do. Thats why my nurgle list has oblits. oblits seem to fit the best fluff wise. They can move forward and still shoot the heavy weapons.

Fourth, I thank you all that have helped with this, and haven't said lash. or even hinted at it. I like the fluff of nurgle. but hate the number. Thats just to get under the skin of another player. and will change depending on what i want to run. The ideas you have given me have helped to form my list into something i wouldn't have thought about before. I added oblits because of what you have said, in this thread and others. And i move forward to hopefully have a great fun/comp list. I thank you all very much for your help.

Fifth,

There is absolutely nothing right about doing it either. There are no free champions, bonus summoning roles, free weapon upgrades, changed force organization charts or any bonus at all. Limiting yourself to a legion meant something in the older editions. It means nothing in this edition other than all your guys are painted the same color. And nothing is stopping you from painting your berzerkers green anyway.

Is such a false statement that i can't even yell at you loud enough. There is one reason to play a mono god list, And i think it falls under the fact that this is my army and i want to run a mono god list. Now if you think i should run the same list you run and be a d-bag please don't post. There isn't room for donkeys in my thread. There really isn't. Yes we all know that there isn't a bonus for playing a certain way. We all know if i wanted to win each and every game i would use my chaos models with the grey knight codex and be a d-bag. But i don't, I play for fun and because i like how i am playing.I started this thread not to be told that mono god lists suck and i shouldn't play them, and blah blah blah blah. If you read the thread name, Plague marine help... THAT NAME DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT LASH OR ZERKERS. If you had half a brain cell you would think a little bit, lets see, Plague marines... Nurgle.... nurgle army... Where in that line of thinking do you get Nurgle army.... LAsh oblit with 2 squads of plague marines.... mono god hate. WHERE DOES THAT COME IN FOR YOU? How'd you screw that line of thinking up? I mean really... Its not that hard... O wait... You play lash oblit... No wonder you don't know what you are talking about... Are you thinking about stealing my list now? You saw it on the internet... I guess you better go play it. You fething d-bag.

PapaPiggy wrote:

Is such a false statement that i can't even yell at you loud enough. There is one reason to play a mono god list, And i think it falls under the fact that this is my army and i want to run a mono god list. Now if you think i should run the same list you run and be a d-bag please don't post. There isn't room for donkeys in my thread. There really isn't. Yes we all know that there isn't a bonus for playing a certain way. We all know if i wanted to win each and every game i would use my chaos models with the grey knight codex and be a d-bag. But i don't, I play for fun and because i like how i am playing.I started this thread not to be told that mono god lists suck and i shouldn't play them, and blah blah blah blah. If you read the thread name, Plague marine help... THAT NAME DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT LASH OR ZERKERS. If you had half a brain cell you would think a little bit, lets see, Plague marines... Nurgle.... nurgle army... Where in that line of thinking do you get Nurgle army.... LAsh oblit with 2 squads of plague marines.... mono god hate. WHERE DOES THAT COME IN FOR YOU? How'd you screw that line of thinking up? I mean really... Its not that hard... O wait... You play lash oblit... No wonder you don't know what you are talking about... Are you thinking about stealing my list now? You saw it on the internet... I guess you better go play it. You fething d-bag.

Look kid, play what you want. If you want to end up on table 15 in a 30 man tournament you are well on your way.

PapaPiggy wrote:

There is absolutely nothing right about doing it either. There are no free champions, bonus summoning roles, free weapon upgrades, changed force organization charts or any bonus at all. Limiting yourself to a legion meant something in the older editions. It means nothing in this edition other than all your guys are painted the same color. And nothing is stopping you from painting your berzerkers green anyway.

Is such a false statement that i can't even yell at you loud enough. There is one reason to play a mono god list, And i think it falls under the fact that this is my army and i want to run a mono god list. Now if you think i should run the same list you run and be a d-bag please don't post. There isn't room for donkeys in my thread. There really isn't. Yes we all know that there isn't a bonus for playing a certain way. We all know if i wanted to win each and every game i would use my chaos models with the grey knight codex and be a d-bag. But i don't, I play for fun and because i like how i am playing.I started this thread not to be told that mono god lists suck and i shouldn't play them, and blah blah blah blah. If you read the thread name, Plague marine help... THAT NAME DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT LASH OR ZERKERS. If you had half a brain cell you would think a little bit, lets see, Plague marines... Nurgle.... nurgle army... Where in that line of thinking do you get Nurgle army.... LAsh oblit with 2 squads of plague marines.... mono god hate. WHERE DOES THAT COME IN FOR YOU? How'd you screw that line of thinking up? I mean really... Its not that hard... O wait... You play lash oblit... No wonder you don't know what you are talking about... Are you thinking about stealing my list now? You saw it on the internet... I guess you better go play it. You fething d-bag.

Dude, stop replying to him, and take it easy on the name calling.

PapaPiggy wrote:Oblits and their plasma cannons. That and rapid firing squads and hoping that they didn't bring 100 models. only way i have to deal with horde armies.

Plasma cannons don't do that much for hordes, Rapid firing can easily be avoided in a few ways now. Hordes are a problem. Maybe scrap the raptors for some good Anti-personnel firepower (Berzerkers maybe). Though I did always like raptors, way cooler than assault marines anyday!

Actually, flamers would do well against hordes. Maybe even lightning claws, but only if you have the points (for the Raptors, that is). TL flamers, esp on the Obliterators, are good option if they get too close.

Kevlar wrote:

Look kid, play what you want. If you want to end up on table 15 in a 30 man tournament you are well on your way.

So what you are saying is that in order to be 'competitive' you need to adhere to a highly conservative internet list irrespective of you personal play style or metagame?

Palindrome wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

Look kid, play what you want. If you want to end up on table 15 in a 30 man tournament you are well on your way.

So what you are saying is that in order to be 'competitive' you need to adhere to a highly conservative internet list irrespective of you personal play style or metagame?

I don't believe I said any such thing. But if you want to build a competitive list you would do well to use a variety of troops that excel at different things.

Building a mono god list based around plague marine feel no pain spam is not very competitive. While they are hard to kill they lack the ability to quickly kill anything themselves.. It would take a plage marine squad three or four turns to beat a tac squad off an objective and they can easily be tied up by cheap troops or slaughtered by monstrous creatures.

Surprisingly enough taking some berzerkers gives you a much easier time in assaults.

I could take an army of 30 raptors and call it fluffy. Doesn't mean it will be any good. It is silly to post a crap list with self imposed restrictions and ask how to make it competitive. It won't ever be competitive..

PapaPiggy wrote:I am having some issues, And i was hoping for some help with them. I have played some games. and i keep finding that my plague marines lack some back line fire. So i changed my list to the following.

The whole point behind this list is an all comers list, and a base guide line for higher and lower point games. I plan on using a rhino wall to shield the raptors and the prince so they can move up to meet with the things coming forward. and to be able to take objectives with some speed. The reason behind all the meltas is for those land raiders that make it on the table, and so i can assault after shooting into a unit. I was thinking having the oblits in the back line would give me the much needed horde and tank pop that my list needs. Other than those i don't have long range fire power. What do you guys think? Should this list be good for an all comers list? Or is there something i should change? The reason why i have over looked tanks, is because one good shot and they are gone. And they have either anti tank, or anti horde but not both. Whereas the oblits can do just about anything and still get a cover save and are multi wound models. Just need to watch out for lascannon shots.

Please help me out if you guys would.

Where does it say in this post that i want to win every game and hold the top spot in every tournament? I keep missing that. See i think i typed that i wanted a nurgle list for all comers. But i don't say that i want the most competitive list and i want to win every game. This thread started out and i asked for help. Then i asked people not to bring up lash. and after about 4-6 posts saying that i should just bring lash i got nasty because i told you people don't say lash its a waste of time. And if you take 1 squad of plague marines into a tac squad, you have a good chance of winning combat in one round if you get the charge. Now I may have gotten rude, but if you read i have thanked the people who actually helped multiple times. Maybe when some one posts and they say they are looking for other options, maybe it would help if you didn't name the one option they aren't looking for. I don't know, maybe that is common sense.

Kevlar wrote:

I don't believe I said any such thing. But if you want to build a competitive list you would do well to use a variety of troops that excel at different things.

Building a mono god list based around plague marine feel no pain spam is not very competitive. While they are hard to kill they lack the ability to quickly kill anything themselves.. It would take a plage marine squad three or four turns to beat a tac squad off an objective and they can easily be tied up by cheap troops or slaughtered by monstrous creatures.

Surprisingly enough taking some berzerkers gives you a much easier time in assaults.

I could take an army of 30 raptors and call it fluffy. Doesn't mean it will be any good. It is silly to post a crap list with self imposed restrictions and ask how to make it competitive. It won't ever be competitive..

You didn't explicitly say it but your meaning is abundantly clear.

Quite simply themed lists are 'competitive' for the most part for the simple reason that army list fitness is not wholey derived from list building; it is also strongly influenced by player skill, type of opposition and perhaps most significantly of all exactly what is meant by 'competitive'. Some lists will do a lot better than others, mostly due to balance issues, but thats not to say that fluff lists are inherently inferior to some cookiecutter internet list. Besides don't you get tired of playing the same army over and over again?

I strongly suspect that I would find games against you tiresome.

Palindrome wrote:Besides don't you get tired of playing the same army over and over again?

I strongly suspect that I would find games against you tiresome.

Yes, which is why a mono-god list is especially unappealing.

And thankfully you will never have to suffer one.

Just because a list is mono god doesn't mean its the same list over and over again. Thinking that is is is just plain stupid. I can trade out plague marines for chaos marines with an icon and still be mono god. I don't have to run a single plague marine and still be mono god. The only thing i can't do in a mono god list is run 2 different named troops, IE noise marines and plague marines. everything else is free game in a mono god list. So how is that the same army? I can run a solid gun line or a rhino rush in a mono god list. But i guess you would count that as the same army with only one function huh.

The point is, with in a mono god list you can change what ever you want to fit what you need. Just need the same mark on all the guys. With the current codex its not like we get a lot of choices as to what we run in chaos. And so sue me for not wanting to run a internet list designed to be as cheese as it gets.