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@jy2

Try reading the thread first, I didn't say it was an easy win or uphill. I was supporting the fact that the kid deserves a better answer then. "Hey kid, stay at home the game is over before it starts." And its not mercers list, so assuming venom spam is the only list out there seems stupid.

And after cover OR FnP that's 20 wounds on infantry. If I shot 75% of my list at a nid player I would expect at least that.

I'm not going to theorize in a vacuum anymore as it's a useless debate, But, complaining about mismatches is useless advice.

Im confused, I thought Mercer was fighting DE, so when did tyranids comer into this?

Apparently accidentally

Lol dose anyone know if grotesques are any good?

Red Corsair wrote:
@jy2

Try reading the thread first, I didn't say it was an easy win or uphill. I was supporting the fact that the kid deserves a better answer then. "Hey kid, stay at home the game is over before it starts." And its not mercers list, so assuming venom spam is the only list out there seems stupid.

And after cover OR FnP that's 20 wounds on infantry. If I shot 75% of my list at a nid player I would expect at least that.

I'm not going to theorize in a vacuum anymore as it's a useless debate, But, complaining about mismatches is useless advice.

Red Corsair wrote:Actually I think nid player complain too much about this match up.

Oh, so when you were "supporting the fact that the kid deserves a better answer then "Hey kid, stay at home the game is over before it starts.", you do so by saying the tyranid player should not complain?

I never said that you thought it was an easy win or not. All I'm saying is that if you take a competitive All-comer's DE build (not necessarily Mercer's list, but his list certainly is representative of a competitive DE list) against a competitive All-comer's tyranid build, DE will beat nids in probably 4 out of 5 games (my own estimate) barring extreme dice and assuming both generals are about equal in skill. The odds are stacked against the tyranid player unless he resorts to list-tailoring and in most cases, it is a rock-scissors matchup.

Ha ha, OK bend it how you need to. I didn't say Tyranid players weren't allowed to complain. Heck form a support group if it fancies you. When one player asks for advice and another says it's hopeless for one side I would have to say this is not a respectable reply. Sure complain, but bring some meat and potatoes to the table as well.

Tell me please, what are your estimates based on? What are the competitive lists you are using? Surely there are more then one competitive build, are you claiming to know them all? Do you have any respectable data or proof of any kind to back your 4 out of 5 game win/loss claim? Or are you seriously gonna be TFG who fabricates data to support their own argument?

Red Corsair wrote:Ha ha, OK bend it how you need to. I didn't say Tyranid players weren't allowed to complain. Heck form a support group if it fancies you. When one player asks for advice and another says it's hopeless for one side I would have to say this is not a respectable reply. Sure complain, but bring some meat and potatoes to the table as well.

Seriously, from the context of your original message, the only thing I got out of it was you bagging on the tyranid player for complaining and providing support for that. Hey, I can't read your mind and what you really meant....

Tell me please, what are your estimates based on? What are the competitive lists you are using? Surely there are more then one competitive build, are you claiming to know them all? Do you have any respectable data or proof of any kind to back your 4 out of 5 game win/loss claim? Or are you seriously gonna be TFG who fabricates data to support their own argument?

They are based on my own experiences with tyranids and my evaluation of dark eldar....along with all the battle reports I've seen online with regards to DE vs nids in a tournament setting. I will give you several examples

Luke's (Bugs_n_orks) DE tabled Nick Navanti's (yermom) tyranids recently at the Colonial GT (battle report: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/dark-eldar/218761-recent-games-3.html ).

Here's another DE-vs-Bugs batrep: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t965-the-great-hunt-dark-eldar-vs-tyranids-1850-pts

Here's another report: http://sanguinesons.blogspot.com/2011/06/blog-wars-game-1-dark-eldar-vs-tyranids.html

Yet another report: http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2010/11/dark-eldar-vs-tyranids.html


Got any tales you want to share with us regarding tyranids stomping hard on DE?

jy2 wrote:
Ha ha, OK bend it how you need to. I didn't say Tyranid players weren't allowed to complain. Heck form a support group if it fancies you. When one player asks for advice and another says it's hopeless for one side I would have to say this is not a respectable reply. Sure complain, but bring some meat and potatoes to the table as well.
Seriously, from the context of your original message, the only thing I got out of it was you bagging on the tyranid player for complaining and providing support for that. Hey, I can't read your mind and what you really meant....

Again sir I will ask you to read through the thread with more attention. He was the DE player, not the nid player. The nid player wasn't on the thread so how can I bag on him by giving my opinion to the DE player?

jy2 wrote:
They are based on my own experiences with tyranids and my evaluation of dark eldar....along with all the battle reports I've seen online with regards to DE vs nids in a tournament setting. I will give you several examples

Luke's (Bugs_n_orks) DE tabled Nick Navanti's (yermom) tyranids recently at the Colonial GT (battle report: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/dark-eldar/218761-recent-games-3.html ).

Here's another DE-vs-Bugs batrep: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t965-the-great-hunt-dark-eldar-vs-tyranids-1850-pts

Here's another report: http://sanguinesons.blogspot.com/2011/06/blog-wars-game-1-dark-eldar-vs-tyranids.html

Yet another report: http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2010/11/dark-eldar-vs-tyranids.html


Got any tales you want to share with us regarding tyranids stomping hard on DE?

So let me get this straight. In your opinion, accuracy and precision in regards to statistics can be gathered using a handful of examples, by a hodgepodge of players with no control group. And without considering all the variables.... Basically you just proved my point so thank you. Generally I expect rhetorical questions to be considered less literally lol.

Here let me be blunt because clearly you still miss even the simplest points. You have no actual accumulation of data in any sort controlled manner. So your numbers.... are BS and you were being TFG. Very simple isn't it. Show me the data accumulation and equation you used to derive your numbers? Exactly, you haven't done any actual research. You ran no numbers. Your being TFG!





Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:Actually I think nid players complain too much about this match up. A dakka venom will shoot 12, hit 9 times, causing 4.5 wounds, and if a tyranid player is playing correctly he will have a 4+ cover save of FnP on what ever is being shot. 3+ save on big gribblies. That's 2 wounds on the horde or 1 on a big un. Hardly worth complaining. As for dark matter, gimme a break who isn't loaded with AT these days. Poison is good but over rated here.

No, he has every reason to. This is IMO the toughest matchup for tyranids, even tougher than grey knights. He's got 9 venoms!!! That's 40.5 wounds each turn just from splinter weaponry. FNP is hardly any protection at all. At 2K, most tyranid lists will have 2 tervigons at most. That's only 2 sources of FNP. Just fire at the unit not FNP'd. So if the tyranid player FNP's the hive guards, fire at the tervigons. If he FNP's the tervies, then take out his offense by killing his hive guards. And to advance towards the DE player, tyranids will need to eventually move out of cover for the gribblies....not that that matters after you take out their sources for synapse.

Btw to whom are you referring as he.

jy2 wrote:He's got 9 venoms!!!

Yea thats 570 points without the coresponding units, and requires 9 FO slots. All of which can go down to bolter fire. You think shooting most of an army at another should bare less fruit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You no what bro, forget it. The next time I try and give some friendly advice to a third party, I'll stop, think of you, and then PM you first to make sure my opinion is "correct" according to your extensive statistical findings. I'll then get a pre-approved army list from you to submit to him just to make sure he is playing the "best" list out there as well.

Red Corsair wrote:

jy2 wrote:
Ha ha, OK bend it how you need to. I didn't say Tyranid players weren't allowed to complain. Heck form a support group if it fancies you. When one player asks for advice and another says it's hopeless for one side I would have to say this is not a respectable reply. Sure complain, but bring some meat and potatoes to the table as well.
Seriously, from the context of your original message, the only thing I got out of it was you bagging on the tyranid player for complaining and providing support for that. Hey, I can't read your mind and what you really meant....

Again sir I will ask you to read through the thread with more attention. He was the DE player, not the nid player. The nid player wasn't on the thread so how can I bag on him by giving my opinion to the DE player?

I stated my opinion because I did not agree with your assessment, no matter who was playing tyranids. DE is just a tough matchup for nids overall. Mercer might have been a little "disrespectful" with his view on the matchup between the 2, but he is not without basis for it. You know what the say, "the truth hurts...."

So let me get this straight. In your opinion, accuracy and precision in regards to statistics can be gathered using a handful of examples, by a hodgepodge of players with no control group. And without considering all the variables.... Basically you just proved my point so thank you. Generally I expect rhetorical questions to be considered less literally lol.

Here let me be blunt because clearly you still miss even the simplest points. You have no actual accumulation of data in any sort controlled manner. So your numbers.... are BS and you were being TFG. Very simple isn't it. Show me the data accumulation and equation you used to derive your numbers? Exactly, you haven't done any actual research. You ran no numbers. Your being TFG!

No, I do not have any empirical data such as the one you are seeking. It is a red herring what you are asking for. The only thing I was able to do was a google search for dark eldar vs tyranids. I then just picked out 3 of the reports from p.1 & 2 of my search (the first 3 that actually looked like battle reports) and the results speak for themselves. I am not wasting my time with any more work beyond that.

Red Corsair wrote:You no what bro, forget it. The next time I try and give some friendly advice to a third party, I'll stop, think of you, and then PM you first to make sure my opinion is "correct" according to your extensive statistical findings. I'll then get a pre-approved army list from you to submit to him just to make sure he is playing the "best" list out there as well.

In these forums here, we have the right to speak our minds on any issue. You know me. If I don't agree with a certain viewpoint, I will speak my mind. And I know you will speak yours as well. That's fine. This is a debate we are having right now. But if you feel offended, then I'm sorry. I've said what I wanted to say and I see no reason anymore to drag this report any more off-topic than it already is. If you would like to discuss it further, then I will do it with you off-line via PM.

There are no tyranids in this report; further argument about tyranids vs anything is OT, and will draw sanctions as such. Tone it down, folks, and stay on-topic.

Red Corsair wrote: When one player asks for advice and another says it's hopeless for one side I would have to say this is not a respectable reply. Sure complain, but

My reply was only a joke, dude, that's why I put


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:
I stated my opinion because I did not agree with your assessment, no matter who was playing tyranids. DE is just a tough matchup for nids overall. Mercer might have been a little "disrespectful" with his view on the matchup between the 2, but he is not without basis for it. You know what the say, "the truth hurts...."

Disrespect was deinfinitely not intended. It was a joke, hence the smilie ' ' . I think you have both taken my comment out of the wrong context.

Just wondering what is a good court for an Archon? im thinking of 3 Sslyth with 1 lhamaean is that any good?

None of the Court is that good, really. If I would take any, then I would only take those snake things. Really it's best to spend your points on other things, which are more badass.

Agreed with mercer none of the court is that amazing since you have to take one of everything. Lhameans have to be the worst since you upgrade at best the splinter pistol...now if it hit the agoniser too I would be all over that. As for who asked about grotesques...not really. Urien makes them fun but not competative.

As for the batrep itself...It's another good one mercer. I really thought that Poddy was going to roll up the crons. I probably wouldn't have moved forward much turn one and make you come to him. Necrons are very much a mid range army and so if you can get a turn of free shooting then go for it. I'd hit some of the bigger nastier things with the DL and then hit those wraiths with the venoms. For a turn or two the wraiths have to be target priority number 1. As for the cron side I would definently bulk up the warriors some more as they just couldn't get things done in such small units.

Thanks about the report, dude. I also wouldn't have played as aggressive as Poddy did.