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GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:Gazghkull in a painboy unit, 2+ Armour, FNP, Eternal Warrior and the posibility of a 2+ Inv lol, Broken as anything!

Even, say, Belial with TH/SS and an Apothecary and TH/SS Deathwing Unit? That's a pretty rock hard counter.

That'd leave a massive battle lasting for the majority of the game.

This coming from someone who looks like they play Grey Knights . The invuln is only 1 turn. Plus look at blood angels and the sanguine priests... I just don't think it is that broken IMO

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:This coming from someone who looks like they play Grey Knights . The invuln is only 1 turn. Plus look at blood angels and the sanguine priests... I just don't think it is that broken IMO

Grey Knights are broken, but they get a lot of hate because of the fact Mat Ward writes it and he can't write fluff, you want to see a broken army, Take a look at Space Wolves and tell me how you can perfectly justify making them much better than normal marines for less. Plus, Grey Knights are pretty expensive and model count is low, bar purifiers and draigowing, orks can do well against Grey Knights, my 10 attacks from a strike squad won't stop you lol

Once again Grey knights are much more broken than even space wolves, I agree Space wolves are pretty tough. Look at adepticon this year, the top players played grey knights and wolves, but there were a smattering of others like IG
Now for instance for the Necrons, they are good but not unbeatable or where I would say broken, in matt ward's defense, which kills me to say that. But I don't know what he was smoking with the Grey knights... I have been playing WH 40k since Rogue Trader and there were some grenades that were taken out of the game after 2nd edition for a reason, they were really broken. But then comes Matt Ward and says hey look at these grenades, lets give them back to something that is already uber strong and make them even more broken. You complain about high points, I play Eldar and Tau, their units are also really expensive, but by no means broken. In fact I think there stuff should be reduced in price or at least a new codex. But GW can't come out with a new edition without Space Marines, so Dark Angels and Chaos Legions get the first go... Sorry ranting there....

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:Once again Grey knights are much more broken than even space wolves, I agree Space wolves are pretty tough. Look at adepticon this year, the top players played grey knights and wolves, but there were a smattering of others like IG
Now for instance for the Necrons, they are good but not unbeatable or where I would say broken, in matt ward's defense, which kills me to say that. But I don't know what he was smoking with the Grey knights... I have been playing WH 40k since Rogue Trader and there were some grenades that were taken out of the game after 2nd edition for a reason, they were really broken. But then comes Matt Ward and says hey look at these grenades, lets give them back to something that is already uber strong and make them even more broken. You complain about high points, I play Eldar and Tau, their units are also really expensive, but by no means broken. In fact I think there stuff should be reduced in price or at least a new codex. But GW can't come out with a new edition without Space Marines, so Dark Angels and Chaos Legions get the first go... Sorry ranting there....

I also play Tau and deal with the high point issue, but as a frequent player as Tau and Grey knights against SW's and sometimes Grey knights with my Tau i have not found Grey Knights too hard to beat, they can become isolated easy and only purifier spam works the best, yes, they are a really good army, but then i come up against SW's and all of a sudden in my Tau's case all of my suits are dead pretty quickly due to long fang fire, yes there's cover but even that can't save you sometimes, if it's not missiles, then it's melta and once my suits are gone that's pretty much game over right there, at least you get saves from Psyrifle Dreadnoughts and that's all they can really put on you from a range. Then when I play Grey Knights the thing that really gets on my nerves is the Wolf Standard, and for me it is arguably the most broken thing in 5E, re-rolling all 1's in combat, including Difficult Terrain, Dangerous Terrain and preventing a double 1 from perils for a force weapon if needs be, I don't see how that can be justified, and even if i charge a normal squad of space wolves, they still get more attacks than me for having counter attack!

With the Tau I agree are a difficult army to play competitively right now. But at my local gaming clubs and tourneys, there is usually 1 space wolf player in the top 5 but it is almost always Grey knights who get 2-3 seats. I will say I have mopped the floor with Space Wolves even with Tau - it depends on the build, but if they go for mainly long range stuff, I pick them apart at long range and with my shield drones with my Broadsides, if the points are high enough I will take 3 squads of 3, it makes short work of vehicles and termies at range. But close combat is where they die, though if you can kill things before they can get into CC. The crisis suits with their assault jump can usually stay out of LOS or get cover and the drones help with wound allocations. If you can bubble wrap your broadsides with FW or Kroot it helps to stop them from getting into cc.
Though I am getting off track, the main reason for the thread is that I do not think having a pain boy for Meganobz makes the Orks overpowered, if anything more competitive, now that being said the Ork codex has weathered the years much better than Tau, Eldar or Black Templars

f74 wrote:

Deadshot wrote:............... "Mad doc Grotsnik" If so at 160 a pop and +5 per squad member, thats a huge pointsink for just getting a squad upgraded with "cybork"

+ Fearless + Feel No Pain

I have seen 6 MANZ + Ghaz + Grotsnik smash their way through half a army in one turn using multicharge....it was fearsome

Deadshot wrote:............... "Mad doc Grotsnik" If so at 160 a pop and +5 per squad member, thats a huge pointsink for just getting a squad upgraded with "cybork"

+ Fearless + Feel No Pain

I have seen 6 MANZ + Ghaz + Grotsnik smash their way through half a army in one turn using multicharge....it was fearsome

I would bet that this is true, although it is a point sink, which means your army is hurting somewhere else... I wish the big mek and KFF was an upgrade for burnas instead of the lame as meks or even for lootas, could give them shockk attack gun Just my opinion.