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The servo arm is by BRB pg42 a special close combat weapon. The list there is just the most widely used special close combat weapons.

As already explained, the servo-arm conferred attacks are part of the Techmarine's normal attack. It's not that they're weapons, it's that with them, the Techmarine has two additional attacks.

If I were going to try to argue against getting whacked by my own techmarine I'd try to argue that the MSS rule doesn't specify how to handle a model with multiple base attack types. That's the gray area here.

Servo arm is not Special CCW. There is no text whatsoever in servo-arm stating that it is (special) close combat weapon.

Now, lets take 5-6 so first special cllose combat wargear from few different codexes:

C:BA
Crozius Arcanum: ".. is a power weapon"
The Blood Crozius: "..is a master crafted power weapon"
Executioners Axe: ".. is a two-handed power weapon..."
Heavens teeth: "This chainsword ..." (chainsword is defined later)
Glaive Encarmine. "is two-handed power weapon.."
Chainsword: " a close combat weapon"

C:Necrons
Fabricator Claw Array: "... is a close combat weapon.."
Gauntlet of fire: "is a close combat weapon.."
Hyperphase sword: "is a power weapon"
Void blade: "..is a close combat weapon ..."
Warscythe: "is a two handed close combat weapon.."

C:GK
Anointed Blade : " is a nemesis force sword ..."
Titansword: "is a mastercrafted force weapon..."
Blade of Antwyr: " ... is treated as close combat weapon"
Dagger of Midnight: "... is a power weapon..."
C'tan phase sword: ".. is a power weapon.."
Daemon Blade: "is a two-handed close combat weapon"

Notice that in each and every case, they explicitly say they are (special) close combat weapons?
Because Servo-arm doesn't say it is a close combat weapon, it isn't one.

Additionally, if Servo-arm was special CCW, it would break other things. See rules for choosing from multiple special weapons in CC.

Copper is right here, actually

The definition of a special CCW is something used in close combat that differs in effect from a normal CCW (paraphrasing from p42 here).

Thus if the servo arm is used in CC (it is) and offers different effects to a normal CCW (it does - ignores armour, Init 1 always, doesnt use the A value of the wielder, strength not related to bearer) then it is by definition a special CCW

copper.talos wrote:The servo arm is by BRB pg42 a special close combat weapon. The list there is just the most widely used special close combat weapons.

The one place no one would think to look.....awesome reference FTW

nosferatu1001 wrote:Copper is right here, actually

The definition of a special CCW is something used in close combat that differs in effect from a normal CCW (paraphrasing from p42 here).

Thus if the servo arm is used in CC (it is) and offers different effects to a normal CCW (it does - ignores armour, Init 1 always, doesnt use the A value of the wielder, strength not related to bearer) then it is by definition a special CCW

"These include more complex and powerful weapons that enhance the wielder's combat skills and confer bonuses, and sometimes penalties, to the models using them. The most widely used are listed below:" is the exact quote, but remember that servo-arm is not a weapon (at least not according to C:GK), but piece of wargear that grants extra attacks.

Problem with this is following: If servo-arm is special CCW, it causes huge amount of issues:
1. Two servo-arms on same character won't work by RAW. As per pg 42, you can only use one special CCW per turn. GK techmarine has 2 servo-arms by default...
2. You cannot get servo-arm extra attacks if you have special weapon, like power weapon as GK techmarine has.

So now we're faced with two options: We have option 1) servo-arm is not a special weapon, and by RAW everything still works. And option 2) servo-arm is special CCW, which means that GK Techmarine cannot actually use it by RAW....
Occams Razor says we should choose number 1.

Luide wrote:Servo arm is not Special CCW. There is no text whatsoever in servo-arm stating that it is (special) close combat weapon. <snipped irrelevant crap>

Nobody's saying it is. We're saying the servo-arm attacks are part of the Techmarine's normal attacks.

Edit: oh wait - someone is saying that it is!! lol

False dichotomy, as your problems are overcome by the speicifc allowance given in the servoarm entry to use them

The allowance to only use a single CCW per turn (general) is overridden by the allowance to use the special CCW servo harness as well as your normal attacks (specific)

Luide wrote:Problem with this is following: If servo-arm is special CCW, it causes huge amount of issues:
1. Two servo-arms on same character won't work by RAW. As per pg 42, you can only use one special CCW per turn. GK techmarine has 2 servo-arms by default...
2. You cannot get servo-arm extra attacks if you have special weapon, like power weapon as GK techmarine has.

Servo arms don't work by RAW only if you ignore the rules for servo arms. Normaly a model can only use one special weapon per turn unless (as with all things) they're given specific permission to do so. A Techpriest Enginseer for example can make attacks with his power weapon, then use a servo-arm attack (as stated in the servo arm rules). The two servo arms in a servo harness work very well by RAW, The GK techmarine can indeed make his normal close combat attacks with a power weapon followed by two servo arm attacks.

Additionally, a servo-harness gives you 2 sevo-arms (2 identical close combat weapon) which DOES give you a bonus attack (with some exceptions)

At the risk of digressing (AGAIN, sorry), you guys are generally okay with the concept of servo-arms as weapons?

I'm not sure, both reading the BRB's treatment of special CCW and the pp32 GK codex description of the wargear, it looks to me as just a piece of equipment that gives the owning model more attacks. In this case that's probably a moot distinction (ie, MSS usage), but it might be germane to other issues.

??

HIWPI; they are not weapons per se, and cannot be affected by MSS. RTAW, I feel it is somewhat ambiguous (as it does fit all requirements for being a "weapon"), and could possibly be affected by MSS. Hence the reason I submitted the question to INAT for discussion.

Well, whether they'd be affected by MSS is a separate issue than whether they're weapons.

If they're not weapons, but only give the Techmarine extra attacks of a certain type, welp, the Techmarine still has attacks of that type. So it's a "normal" Techmarine attack, and can be employed by MSS owner.