Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So basically you are saying you are allowed to "disembark" the ever-living token? This rule was specifically written to counter specifically this situation. You are basically circumventing not being allowed to disembark by... disembarking from the transport.

Actually, since the model technically disembarks before the vehicle becomes a wreck, the setup would be as follows:

Skimmer moves fat-out and get immobiised (becoming Wrecked).
Any embarked models immediately disembark (per Wrecked rules) and are removed as casualties (per FAQ).
EL token is places within 2" of an access point (hull since it is open-topped).
EL is rolled for, and (assuming passed) the model would stand back up.

Darth - "anything faster then 12" prevents models on board from assaulting. "
No such rule exists. Citation needed if you disagree. It is just that normally you cannot exit a vehicle that has moved over 12" in a way that lets you still assault.

Happyjew wrote:Actually, since the model technically disembarks before the vehicle becomes a wreck, the setup would be as follows:

Skimmer moves fat-out and get immobiised (becoming Wrecked).
Any embarked models immediately disembark (per Wrecked rules) and are removed as casualties (per FAQ).
EL token is places within 2" of an access point (hull since it is open-topped).
EL is rolled for, and (assuming passed) the model would stand back up.

They never disembark, as they are not allowed to (the whole reason they are removed as casualties in the first place is because they are not allowed to disembark). The EL token must be placed where the model was removed from play, which is inside the vehicle, which no longer exists, making it impossible to place the token.

The counter is not a model and doesn't have any restrictions in its placement that apply to models. The EL rules cover this situation since the EL counter is placed "on the table" where the model was removed from play. In this case on the wreck of the barge.

Necron Codex pg. 29 wrote: If a model with this special rule is removed as a casualty, do not add a Reanimation Protocols counter to it's unit. Instead place a Ever-living counter where the model was removed from play.

There is no mention of placing it on the table as you tried to highlight. While the counter is not a model, it does have defined rules on where it can be placed (see above). The model was not on the table at the time the counter needed to be placed, so you may not place the counter.

If you want to go down the silly RAW road, you place it on the side table where the model was sitting, or in the case where the model was sitting which doesn't really help you at all.

The only possible way I see it working is if you actually place the physical model on the vehicle as depicted when you are moving it around the board. At that point you could put the counter on the vehicle wreck where the model was standing and if the character makes his role, he pops up 3" of the counter (preferably off the vehicle since it's now difficult terrain and may prove problematic for assaulting.) Like I said though, this requires actually moving the CCB around with the actual model representing the IC.

I stand corrected. The "on the table" thing must be an after effect of all that EL-SA arguing.

Anyway the logic behind it still stands. Counters are not model and are not restricted as such in their placement. You place the counter where the model was removed from play and that is on the wrecked barge.

On the other side the INAT has ruled that you put the counter within 2" of the wreck. Maybe that disembark and then remove casualties thing has some merit.

Well if I explode a ghost ark with 5 warriors and a lord/cyptek, and the lord and 4 warriors die do I not get to place my counted since the models are not physically on the table?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So you are left with one warrior? And no possibility to get back off.

im at work and dont have my brb handy, but i believe the rules specify when a model is allowed to charge. disembarking from a vehicle is one of those that disallows it. just as does firing certain weapons, or running, and so on.

then there are exceptions. if you have fleet, if you disembarked from an open topped vehicle, and so on.

heres how i see it.

- vehicle moved 24" therefore:
- it DOES get a obscured cover save for going flatout. as per the fast vehicle rules.
- it may NOT fire any weapons due to the speed it moved.
- models on board may NOT disembark, as defined by the transport rules and disembarking, since the vehicle moved a certain speed.
- if it enters difficult terrain, its required to make a DT check.
- if it fails that check the vehicle is wrecked, since it would normally be immobilized, but since its a fast vehicle moving at 24" it is instead wrecked.
- faq has this... "Q: If a skimmer is immobilised in its own Movement phase whilst moving flat out is it still destroyed? (p71)
A: Yes."
- as per the faq any vehicle that wrecks itself in its own movement phase has its passengers if any removed as well.
"Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties"
- at this point, your RP/EL would kick in. and heres how i interpret the rule.

you normally place a counter next to the unit that was destroyed per casualtie taken. EL overrides that to simply place a counter where the model was removed from play. since the characters model was NOT on the table or in play when it was slain, there is nothing to place the marker near. and since you have no marker, no roll and no coming back.

i would even go so far as to guess that GW and its rule writers do NOT want people crashing transports into terrain then charging the occupants to get faster or furthar charges off.

as for the transport issue.. if a barge is wrecked or destroyed under normal circumstance the following:
- wrecked. nothing matters. your crons just disembark and take a pinning check, no other problems.
- on the explodes result, everyone takes a str 4 hit, (str 3 if inside an open topped vehicle) a single wound is applied per 'hit' since (im guessing) most necrons with EL have more then 1 wound, this wont matter. but if for some reason it does, you place the counter as normal next to the unit that it was attached to. in the case of a command barge and single character on board, i believe the disembark happens BEFORE the hits are rolled, however again i dont have my rulebook handy. either way, in this case simply place the counter next to the wreck.

(i realize thats contradictory, but since there is no INTENT to loophole a rule, or otherwise 'break the game' some leniance should be allowed. - not RAW i realize but im very much in the camp of not trying to exploit loopholes, just to win. those types of actions should disallowed quickly with no room for argument, since its just a method of trying to justify cheating. normal in game occurance thats just bad luck or vague, when both sides are attempting to play within the rules i generally play it the fairest way possible. )

Lords and crpteks only have 1. Overlords have 3

DarthSpader wrote:
you normally place a counter next to the unit that was destroyed per casualtie taken. EL overrides that to simply place a counter where the model was removed from play. since the characters model was NOT on the table or in play when it was slain, there is nothing to place the marker near. and since you have no marker, no roll and no coming back.

Technically speaking, the model was on the table. It was inside the transport. However, due to the impossibility of physically placing 10 marines inside a rhino (for example) we, the gamers, have a convention where the model is simply left on the side of the table while embarked.

In the case of the Command Barge, the model is actually physically "inside" the vehicle.

Either way, the RP marker should be placed inside (or close to per RAW) the area of the wreck/explosion. Also, because RP happens at the end of each phase I would assume that this is simply one of those loop holes that they didn't think about. So, the RP kicks in and the lord stands up.

Now, while inside the transport the model has actually completed it's move. So I wouldn't allow it to go another 6"; although I would allow it to assault in the assault phase.

IMHO, watching a robot in a vehicle move flat out, crash and get back up to run head long into the enemy would be fun to watch. Even if they were headed my way.

I'd allow this.

Actually no, by the rules the models are removed from the table when they embark - its not just a convention, it's the rules.

Aren't we forgetting that the overlord never actually disembarked from the vehicle. That's why he died in the first place. You could argue that he never disembarked and so when he gets back up he is perfectly fine to assault.

clively wrote:Technically speaking, the model was on the table. It was inside the transport. However, due to the impossibility of physically placing 10 marines inside a rhino (for example) we, the gamers, have a convention where the model is simply left on the side of the table while embarked.

You're wrong on this. By RAW, the models are removed from table.
"When the unit embarks, it is removed from table and placed aside, making a note or otherwise marking that the unit is being transported (we find that placing one of the unit's models on top of the transport works well!)." BRB, pg 75

clively wrote: Either way, the RP marker should be placed inside (or close to per RAW) the area of the wreck/explosion. Also, because RP happens at the end of each phase I would assume that this is simply one of those loop holes that they didn't think about. So, the RP kicks in and the lord stands up.

By RAW, you cannot place the marker anywhere as the model is not on the table when he is removed from game as casualty.

My guess is that GW probably will FAQ this at some point to allow placing of the counter at the wreck.