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Beaviz81 wrote:Most priests of the Ecclesiarchy likely are noble enough, of course scum exists as well just like IRL. I had a lengthy discussion about that with Melissia and the other person with great knowledge about the Sisters of Battle.

Also I didn't know the Asartes disregarded the Imperial Church. Ehm it's not that I don't believe you, but can you show me the source of that?

The Codex entry on Chaplains pretty much sums up how a Chapter regards the Imperial Church. As far as the Astartes are concerned, the Church talks too much, and could use more time actually doing something for the Emperor instead of ranting and raving. I mean, just look at the difference between a Astartes Homeworld and an Ecclesiarchy-run planet. An Astartes Homeworld isn't just productive, it's actually progressive and culturally active by 40k standards. Ecclesiarchy-run planets are slums except for the Cathedrals. Even Forge Worlds are beautiful by comparison. The Church Hierarchy lives in luxury while the people live in poverty - you think the Astartes would appreciate that? Astartes are essentially monks; their Fortresses are grand in design, but are actually quite spartan. Anything that the Astartes don't use for their Chapter and taken from their homeworld is used to improve their homeworld and the surrounding systems, which actually makes it worth for the Administratum to ignore the fact that Astartes Homeworlds don't pay tithe since the surrounding systems can pay more and are safer thanks to the Astartes' efforts.


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pretre wrote:They retconned it in the 3rd edition rulebook by saying the Sensei were unwitting pawns of Tzeentch and they were eliminated by an inquisitor.

Not exactly...the purge was implied to be a cover-up by Illuminati members of the Ordo Malleus. And they haven't been erased from fluff like the Squats. They've simply been "unmentioned".

Some hellish hives or feral worlds are also run by the Space Marines. Fenris is f.ex. not a nice place. Baal sounds like hell, radioactivity and such,

I take the route that some Astartes are good rulers, and some are bad, just like the differencing nobles and priests. Not every priest is father Lilyman in space, not every noble is an inbred prick. Also not every Astartes is a military or more puzzling an administrative genius.

Beaviz81 wrote:Some hellish hives or feral worlds are also run by the Space Marines. Fenris is f.ex. not a nice place. Baal sounds like hell, radioactivity and such,

I take the route that some Astartes are good rulers, and some are bad, just like the differencing nobles and priests. Not every priest is father Lilyman in space, not every noble is an inbred prick. Also not every Astartes is a military or more puzzling an administrative genius.

Fair enough...but those 'bad' Astartes Homeworlds are usually feral worlds, so it's to be expected they're quite savage. And it's true some Chapters are little better than CSMs, but these guys get in trouble with other Chapters, especially with the Salamanders. And it's an unfortunate fact that most high-ranking Ecclesiarchal officials are corrupt, coloring the common view of the Ecclesiarchl hierarchy.

Most high-ranking Ecclesiarchs are corrupt? What is the source? That is quite the claim.

Beaviz81 wrote:Most high-ranking Ecclesiarchs are corrupt? What is the source? That is quite the claim.

Just look at the Ecclessiarchy. They preach austerity and duty, and while the ordinary citizen on a Cardinal World wallows in poverty and eats processed nutrient, they import rich food from Agri Worlds and pamper themselves and engage in games of politics and power. How is that not corrupt?

Then every Space Marine is corrupt, as every meal they take in their monasteries is a feast. There are politics in the ranks of the Space Marines as well.

Beaviz81 wrote:Then every Space Marine is corrupt, as every meal they take in their monasteries is a feast. There are politics in the ranks of the Space Marines as well.

Considering what Astartes do for a living and the enhanced needs of their bodies, it's not really an issue. And while there are politics, Astartes are restrained by the psycho-hypnotic indoctrination they regularly undergo. And Astartes prefer to stay out of Imperial politics, with most political matters confined to the Chapter and to warzones.

As with everything, you hear only about the great or the horrible people. You don't hear of Cardinal Competent, that rules Competentia for 500 in peace, while the planet developes a little, and from time to time sends forth competent IG-regiments to warzones who do totally okay jobs, but nothing spectacular.

Well, Baal isn't exactly the Blood Angel's fault, it was a nuclear wasteland before they even got there.

Fenris' people match the Astartes that rule them. And it's not like Space Wolves are the shining example of the modern space marine in 40k.

Then again, it's typically worlds that were conquered by Gulliman that are well set up and it's peoples happy.

But, on topic, a Saint took out a Baneblade? I approve.

Beaviz81 wrote:As with everything, you hear only about the great or the horrible people. You don't hear of Cardinal Competent, that rules Competentia for 500 in peace, while the planet developes a little, and from time to time sends forth competent IG-regiments to warzones who do totally okay jobs, but nothing spectacular.

Of course. People want to hear the best and the worst, and care nothing for the in-between.