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Kevin949 beating all challenges like a boss.

Kevin949 wrote:

Luide wrote:I meant restrictions for choosing the unit to be the target of the power/ability.

But that's just it, the Summoning was FAQ'd to not allow it, sure, but there's no restriction anywhere about a falling back unit disembarking from a vehicle, and through the rules loopholes you could still easily get the 2d6 fall back move.

The Summoning power was probably FAQ'd to not be allowed because utilizing DS rules does count as movement.

Disembarking is also movement. And it's movement which isn't 2d6" toward the table edge, which is the only kind of movement a unit Falling Back is allowed to make.

Kevin949 wrote:
But that's just it, the Summoning was FAQ'd to not allow it, sure, but there's no restriction anywhere about a falling back unit disembarking from a vehicle, and through the rules loopholes you could still easily get the 2d6 fall back move.

The Summoning power was probably FAQ'd to not be allowed because utilizing DS rules does count as movement.

I'm just saying, this is a very WAAC/TFG move but in my perspective there is no actual rules breaking, just some slight bending.

Disembarking is movement exactly the same way Deep Strike is movement. Both rules say that performing the action means the unit is not allowed to move any further, which clearly indicates that both Deep Striking and disembarking are movement. Further, GW's rulebook FAQ clarifies that disembarking is moving explaining that you need to take dangerous terrain tests when disembarking into dangerous terrain and why you aren't allowed to disembark on the other side of enemy models.

Furthermore, the important thing to consider about the Summoning FAQ ruling is that whatever reasoning you can come up with for why GW ruled that way about the summoning would be precisely the same thing for a Monolith teleporting a unit. Yes, the actual method of deployment of the transported unit is different, but what is the reason they are disallowed?

In both cases a separate unit is the one transporting the falling back unit and in both cases the falling back unit that gets moved counts as having moved after being transported.

So I'll say it again: The only logical reason that the Summoning isn't allowed to transport a falling back unit is because doing so prevents the unit from making its fall back move which it must do. The same exact thing applies to a falling back Necron unit being teleported through the Monolith.

So I then revert to the previous statement of, what happens to an embarked unit on a vehicle that fails a morale test and must fall back? You move the vehicle first then they can't disembark because they can't do their 2d6 move? Game breaks? Allow them to disembark and do their 2d6 move regardless to how far the vehicle moved (as long as disembarking is allowed per the vehicle movement rules)? While this situation is very rare, it's still a possibility that it could come up in a game.

And do remember, I'm just playing devils advocate here.

Kevin949 wrote:So I then revert to the previous statement of, what happens to an embarked unit on a vehicle that fails a morale test and must fall back? You move the vehicle first then they can't disembark because they can't do their 2d6 move? Game breaks? Allow them to disembark and do their 2d6 move regardless to how far the vehicle moved (as long as disembarking is allowed per the vehicle movement rules)? While this situation is very rare, it's still a possibility that it could come up in a game.

And do remember, I'm just playing devils advocate here.

The game breaks, See the pre F.A.Q. threads about Doom of Malantai and embarked units from just after the Tyranid codex released.

Kevin949 wrote:So I then revert to the previous statement of, what happens to an embarked unit on a vehicle that fails a morale test and must fall back?.

Technically? Since they cannot make a legal Fall Back move they are destroyed. However, I don't know anyone who would actually enforce this (but I'm too lazy to look for the original thread).

Kevin949 wrote:So I then revert to the previous statement of, what happens to an embarked unit on a vehicle that fails a morale test and must fall back? You move the vehicle first then they can't disembark because they can't do their 2d6 move? Game breaks? Allow them to disembark and do their 2d6 move regardless to how far the vehicle moved (as long as disembarking is allowed per the vehicle movement rules)? While this situation is very rare, it's still a possibility that it could come up in a game.

And do remember, I'm just playing devils advocate here.

The rules don't currently allow a falling back unit to disembark from a vehicle and don't specifically ever seem to indicate that the designers have ever considered that there are situations where embarked units might need to fall back.

This is why for the INAT we've basically just ruled that embarked units do not fall back, because that seems to be how the designer's intent (perhaps through ignorance) has been played out in the rules.

What about the Necron Megalith, does that get to use the same rule?