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liam0404 wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:Harliquins, Wraithlords, wraithguard, and Pathfinders have all seen their glory days pass. There is a reason they are not considered competitive anymore.

Ignore this statement kids. Absolute 100% rubbish.

Harlequins - Good for giving foot dar cover. Besides that they cant do anything lol. There 24" range with footdar means something, because footdar can actually use them, but besides footdar harlequins really arnt useful as if they get out in the open they get smacked, not to mention they are a sub par close combat unit.

Wraithlords - Yea there cool. Are they an AWEFUL unit? No. Are they an amazing unit? What the wraithlord brings is versatility. Wraithlords being good COMPLEATLY depends on what your opponent brings. If you play against Psycannons/Lascannons/Melta Guns/ ANY DARK ELDAR ARMY/ Imperial Guard you will see your 180 point wraithlords fall down turn 1. They arnt good, they arnt bad, but they can be countered very easily now. That being said they DO work with footdar.

Wraithguard - Again, Works as the Barrier unit that Foot Dar counter charge into. Besides that they are sub par in close combat, sub par anti tank, only have a 12" range, HAVE NO invul save. T6 and a 5+ save is "ok". Works with a footdar list, and with everything else it doesnt work.

Pathfinders - Ive run Alaitoc Pathfinder armies at 1500 points, with 3 wraithlords and 36 pathfinders and eldrad. They are hilarious little buggers, But Flamers and the fact that they wound on 4's is just aweful. There only logical setting is to be used as an objective holder, but its still a waste of points when compared to a wave serpent thats scoring.

Phoenix Lords - The only phoenix lord that I like is Karandras. 3+ cover save, 7 PF attacks at WS7, 2+ save. If you can get this guy into close combat he will wreck people. I bring him to tournies for fun with a seer council and the synergy works quite well. Besides Karandras I dont see ANY phoenix lords as viable.

I think one problem on this thread, are kids who like stats on paper are arguing with tournament veterans who know what Eldar is actually like in competitive 5th edition. Is Bluedagger saying the following units should NEVER NEVER NEVER be used? No. Hes saying that in a competitive enviornemnt like a GT, you will have problems using those units because 1) they lack good stats , 2) they are easily countered by good veteran players. If you bring those units to your local FLGS and play some one who isnt good, you can get decent results. HOWEVER, in a 3 Primary objective tournement, I dont see those units doing well.

Harlequin Army - I played against a WWP dark eldar harlequin army at a tournament this weekend, go over and check it out OP.

I absolutely love that anyone who has an opinion thats "against the meta", must be a child and therefore rubbish at 40k. Wraithguard wilt against dark eldar, no arguments there. Thats 1 out of 14 codexes. Wraithguard when employed with harlequins are absolutely devastating, and are capable of beating any opponent when utilized in the correct way. So many people say 40k is point click and win, not so when playing footdar. Im my list I run 30 wraithguard and about 20 harlequins.

Eldrad is mandatory in such a list as well, and with rerollable saves and sensible deployment, its a nightmare to shift. Underestimate their threat at your peril.

When you making a point against what will win tournaments (the meta) effectiveness is what matters. Otherwise any unit is viable. I love playing 3 untis of swoopinghawks and my 3x 3 D-Cannon batteries, however "is it good" leans on if I took it to a GT how would it fair? and the answer is aweful.

30 wraithgaurd and 20 hariles is a blast to play, however against GK (with storm raven mind strikes) or DE (with venoms) the list would have to have some seriously good rolling to not get crushed. I'm not trying to knock you as a player because I'm sure you are great with that list, however statistically speaking it would not be able to win outside of dice rolls or strange scenario. While it may be 1 out of 14 dexes, it will be present at a tournament and you run the risk by not being able to cope.

@ Smitty0305- Saw that before, as I believe I'm subscribed to your thread. Beautiful army, but as a Dark Eldar player for a while now, his list was odd, and all over the place.

I know I wouldn't be winning and compeditive tournaments with a Harlequin army, but I feel that its a fluffy way to run my Craftworld that could put up a decent fight in most cases. (Clearly there are awful match ups for it)

On the Wraithguard note, I haven't had a lot of experience with them, so I dont think I would be able to agree with anyone on this. T6 is sure nice though, but the 12" Range seems like it would be a pain.

Luckily harlies in DE at least have assault vehicles they can jump out of and assault so that makes them a bit more viable. 12" move, 2" disembark, D6 fleet, 6" assault let the harlies get in from quite a distance. However in DE they suffer from there being cheaper units for the job. Wyches, while squishier before PfP, are troops. Incubi for the same cost get 3+ armor, power weapons, and PfP.

If yo uare going for a fluffy look though, harlies all the way. They can make a beautiful looking army.

liam0404 wrote:I absolutely love that anyone who has an opinion thats "against the meta", must be a child and therefore rubbish at 40k. Wraithguard wilt against dark eldar, no arguments there. Thats 1 out of 14 codexes. Wraithguard when employed with harlequins are absolutely devastating, and are capable of beating any opponent when utilized in the correct way. So many people say 40k is point click and win, not so when playing footdar. Im my list I run 30 wraithguard and about 20 harlequins.

Eldrad is mandatory in such a list as well, and with rerollable saves and sensible deployment, its a nightmare to shift. Underestimate their threat at your peril.

You literally have 0 anti tank , and NO shooting above 12" Range.

I have no idea how that will EVER win a game. If an opponent moves within your 12" bubble hes bad, and I gurentee youve never played that list outside of your little gaming circle.

That list suffers from what I call, if X happens X happens syndrome.

If (A Unit) comes (Within 12") then it dies. But If X(A Unit) Doesnt (Move within 12") Then you loose.

So basically your playing a list, where your opponent needs to do what you want him to, and good players dont do that, they do what YOU DONT want them to do.

Unless of course that is exactly what you wanted them to do in the first place.

However, I think this thread has gone quite a bit off topic.

Smitty and BlueDagger are both absolutely correct.

Eldar have a ton of really fun, cool units that work great in a casual atmosphere. But, if you're trying to win against an army that is decked out to win, then our options narrow considerably.

Harlies, Wraithlords, Phoenix Lords, etc do not make the cut when you move from "fun" to "competitive".

If you want to run those fun units, I wish you the best of luck. But, until we see a new codex (or a major shift in either the meta or the rules), they aren't playable.

I cite Reecius again. Lol

Grakmar wrote:Smitty and BlueDagger are both absolutely correct.

Eldar have a ton of really fun, cool units that work great in a casual atmosphere. But, if you're trying to win against an army that is decked out to win, then our options narrow considerably.

Harlies, Wraithlords, Phoenix Lords, etc do not make the cut when you move from "fun" to "competitive".

If you want to run those fun units, I wish you the best of luck. But, until we see a new codex (or a major shift in either the meta or the rules), they aren't playable.

The meta is precisely what makes those units so playable, in conjunction (harlies/pathfinders/wraithlords). The meta favors shooting and AT, neither of which is useful against footslogging units you cannot reliably shoot at. A few fortuned wraithlords in cover for popping landraiders/transports, 3 death jesters for stopping transports - pretty soon you are facing a largely footslogging army whom harlies roundly beat in mobility and killing power. It's the ultimate castle list - trying to budge it through shooting is just a waste of time, and anyone poking their nose in is likely to get hit by 2 or more harlie squads. The wraithlords will go down eventually, but you'll be up in KP and transports should be sparse or gone by then.

It mostly works BECAUSE of the current meta though - it has so few KP and reduces enemy shooting so well you are basically certain to win any KP mission; and with pathfinders guarded by 3 squads of untargetable countercharge units you can generally win or tie objective missions simply by being impossible to budge. A VP system, or less reliance on elite units in AV11/12 transports would be much harder for said list to face.