Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Chowderhead wrote:The Humans are rebellious upstarts who brought nothing but terror and destruction in their wake.

It will be a great day when they are rid from the Galaxy. They will never be worthy. Orks have known nothing but war for millions of years, Eldar have watched the Galaxy burn for eons, Necrons look upon them in disgust as masters of time, T'au subjugate them as the new peoples, and the Tyranids are the ultimate predators. These are races who have earned their keep.

The humans and the Chaos will be gone soon. And the Galaxy will be ever happier for it.

Har har har, filthy upstarts, that is a good one. The Tyranids do nothing but eat, they form no civilization, no lasting existence, the Tau have existed for only 6,000 years, and still are so small that they only exist because the Imperium has bigger issues to deal with, the Orks are but pests, only continuing to exist simply because the Imperial Guard and Adeptus Astartes can only be at so many places at once, the Eldar were decadent and foolish enough to bring down the fall of their own empire, which never match humanity's for sheer scale and now cling to their last vestiges of pride to keep themselves from having to admit that they aren't the betters of humanity, their brothers and sisters in Commorragh know nothing but excess and simply scrape a meager existance, attacking shipping and backwater planets, the Necrons have laid dormant for eons and have barely experienced the horrors of the modern galaxy. Against all of these threats however, humanity in all its forms has yet to falter, has yet to show any sign of weakness.

Tadashi wrote:

nomotog wrote:Assuming you are talking about RL, no it's not.

Really? I didn't see the Allied Generals who ordered the fire-bombing of Tokyo and the deaths of over a million Japanese civilians go to trial. Or for that matter President Truman about the nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And let's not forget about how German/Japanese scientists were pardoned in exchange for data on nuclear/biological weapons development in WWII. Or how the US government covers up the inhumanities in Guantanamo Bay Prison or any crimes committed by US Servicemen abroad. I may be 19, but I've studied enough history to know that winners are never prosecuted. My people know that best - we're the only ones in the world to suffer nuclear attack, and the ones behind it were never punished, so don't go all righteous on us all. Even outside of war it's the same - if you have money and influence, you can get scotch-free from a criminal case.

Wining dose get you a lot and in some cases the winner get away with murder, but it's still not winner take all. If it was, then japan would in in permanent poverty trying to pay reparations after losing all their land to the Americans. To use a less wary example, most nations have some form of welfare where the economic winners share with the loser.

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:The Humans are rebellious upstarts who brought nothing but terror and destruction in their wake.

It will be a great day when they are rid from the Galaxy. They will never be worthy. Orks have known nothing but war for millions of years, Eldar have watched the Galaxy burn for eons, Necrons look upon them in disgust as masters of time, T'au subjugate them as the new peoples, and the Tyranids are the ultimate predators. These are races who have earned their keep.

The humans and the Chaos will be gone soon. And the Galaxy will be ever happier for it.

Orks and Eldar obtained their power from the Old Ones, and the Necrons from the C'tan. Only Humans, Tau, and Tyranids got where they are thorugh their own efforts - who is more worthy then?

Space Manatees

Chowderhead wrote:

Buttons wrote:They do rule the vast majority of the galaxy with only the Orks controlling more worlds, and even that is iffy.

That's a joke, right?

Orks rule the entire Galaxy. If they ever joined forces, the combined forces of every race besides the Tyranids couldn't stop them.

Humans own about >10% of the galaxy. If that.

While that is true you are forgetting that politically and military Humans are masters in the galaxy. They have the single, most powerful, united empire while Orks live in thousands of smaller empires, each one battling each other for dominance and fun.

Orks uniting? Good luck with that, it's easier to try and kill all four Chaos Gods...

Humanity gave up when they allowed the Emporers yes man and his ultrasmurfs to cripple what remained of the Imperium, devide the legions, and give over control to corrupt leaders, thats when humanity gave up.

As far as right to rule is concerned Humanity are the only group besides the Necrons to be chosen by Gods, as far as justifications go nothings better than devine right.

Tadashi wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:The Humans are rebellious upstarts who brought nothing but terror and destruction in their wake.

It will be a great day when they are rid from the Galaxy. They will never be worthy. Orks have known nothing but war for millions of years, Eldar have watched the Galaxy burn for eons, Necrons look upon them in disgust as masters of time, T'au subjugate them as the new peoples, and the Tyranids are the ultimate predators. These are races who have earned their keep.

The humans and the Chaos will be gone soon. And the Galaxy will be ever happier for it.

Orks and Eldar obtained their power from the Old Ones, and the Necrons from the C'tan. Only Humans, Tau, and Tyranids got where they are thorugh their own efforts - who is more worthy then?

The Necrons didn't gain their power from the C'tan. The only thing they gained, was the knowledge of Bio-transference. Szeras is the one who implemented it, and the Necrons are the ones who developed their still vastly superior technology. Saying that the C'tan "Gave" the their power, is only partly true.

Sasori wrote:
The Necrons didn't gain their power from the C'tan.

Right.......Necrons wiped out the Old Ones and Emperor know's how many races all by themselves, and received only a pat on the back from the C'TAn

The only thing they gained, was the knowledge of Bio-transference. Szeras is the one who implemented it, and the Necrons are the ones who developed their still vastly superior technology.

And how to do so, how to build and use Gauss Weapons, and many other things...

Saying that the C'tan "Gave" the their power, is only partly true.

It is in fact TOTALLY true, if not for the C'Tan Necrontyr would all die out fighting among themselves while the Old Ones would still rule the galaxy. To say that C'Tan give Necrontyr everything from technology to galaxy in the end is as true as my statement that I am member of Human race.

Humanity gave up when they allowed the Emporers yes man (Guilliman) cripple what remained of the Imperium, divide the legions, and give over control to corrupt leaders and the Ecclisiarchy and then spend ten thousand years refusing to innovate waiting for their destruction, thats when humanity gave up.

As far as right to rule is concerned Humanity are the only group besides the Necrons to be chosen by Gods, as far as justifications go nothings better than devine right. Everything in 40k is about Gods, if you have Gods you cannot lose, if you are Godless you cannot win, the Eldar Gods are dead or in exlile, the Orks just have two old ones, and the Nids really are just glorified virus's constantly seeking host to feed on. Only Humans and Necrons have worthy Gods, the Chaos Gods and the Ctan.
,

The humans and the Chaos will be gone soon. And the Galaxy will be ever happier for it.

Great then it can be inhabited by elves, robots, and communist.


Don't post links like this on Dakka.
Reds8n

The humans have rights to a Galaxy that the Eldar will end when they kill Slaneesh. Let them have their fun until that time. ;D

Right.......Necrons wiped out the Old Ones and Emperor know's how many races all by themselves, and received only a pat on the back from the C'TAn

The C'tan said themselves, that they had tried to wipe out the old ones, and failed. It was the combined force of Necrons, and C'tan, that allowed them to defeat them.

And how to do so, how to build and use Gauss Weapons, and many other things...

That's not true at all. I'd love to see your source for this, but there is none. Once again, you're back to making things up, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

t is in fact TOTALLY true, if not for the C'Tan Necrontyr would all die out fighting among themselves while the Old Ones would still rule the galaxy. To say that C'Tan give Necrontyr everything from technology to galaxy in the end is as true as my statement that I am member of Human race.

As I pointed out before, the only knowledge gained from the C'tan, was the Bio-transference.

It even says in the Codex, that the Necrons had Superior Technology to the Old ones. The only reason they lost, was because the Old ones mastery of the Webway.


Really Coa, it gets tiring arguing with you. You make up stuff, and your arguments have no basis in reality. I don't even know how someone can continue to spout Ignorant garbage, with such zeal. You should embarrassed.

nomotog wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

nomotog wrote:Assuming you are talking about RL, no it's not.

Really? I didn't see the Allied Generals who ordered the fire-bombing of Tokyo and the deaths of over a million Japanese civilians go to trial. Or for that matter President Truman about the nuclear attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And let's not forget about how German/Japanese scientists were pardoned in exchange for data on nuclear/biological weapons development in WWII. Or how the US government covers up the inhumanities in Guantanamo Bay Prison or any crimes committed by US Servicemen abroad. I may be 19, but I've studied enough history to know that winners are never prosecuted. My people know that best - we're the only ones in the world to suffer nuclear attack, and the ones behind it were never punished, so don't go all righteous on us all. Even outside of war it's the same - if you have money and influence, you can get scotch-free from a criminal case.

Wining dose get you a lot and in some cases the winner get away with murder, but it's still not winner take all. If it was, then japan would in in permanent poverty trying to pay reparations after losing all their land to the Americans. To use a less wary example, most nations have some form of welfare where the economic winners share with the loser.

Let's put it this way, up until about twenty years ago, Japan suffered from a chronic economic depression America literally forced the Japanese to dig themselves out of, in addition to abolishing their military, making Japan a US state with no rights that still had its sovereignty, like the American Indians - which we don't need to discuss, because that's an epic saga of sorrow and bloodshed. It is a similar story with Germany, and the only reason why America acted in good faith to rebuild Germany was because Russian communism was already doing it so it could claim Germany as a soviet state. Now, both nations enjoy their own powerful economies because they played by America's rules of capitalism, not because they really wanted to, but because America basically owned them and said they had to. Without America, both nations would look like an eastern block country, and that relationship continues to this day because America's consumer economy keeps their economies alive. It is this very reason why everyone freaks out when the American economy falters or stalls, because it has profound effects on the rest of the world. And that's just the economy. You look up the CIA and start digging around the U.S.'s war crime history and you'll immediately begin to wonder how great capitalism is when you start seeing the atrocities the US has sanctioned by installing dictators and staging coups..... all of which have had 0 accountability.

Relating this tangent to the topic, Humanity does not deserve to rule the galaxy, either by manifest destiny or by sheer might of arms. Those who have power largely manifest the worst qualities of our brutal and arrogant race and unlike the Old Ones,we still have not learned from our mistakes even in the 41st millennium. Possibly because our lifespans are too short for us to learn anything other than what has been written down by others, our ambition is too high to even read these articles, or we rarely care about the fates of others.

Edit: K, I promise I'm done editing this now...

Insults and BS removed.

hey also said that they lacked manpower to stop them, the one thing that Necrontyr had. C'Tan were the brain while Necrons were the meat.

It never uses the term "Manpower". All it says is that The C'tan lost the war, and they wanted Allies to help defeat them. It implies that their smaller numbers were a factor, but there isn't enough information to say that is the prime cause of their loss.

's in your very codex, after Necrontyr leader agreed to C'Tan terms black ships came from the sky, Necrontyr rounded up all their people and inside those ships they were transformed. It was the C'Tan who transform them into what they are today. With that they gave them knowledge, if I am not mistaken they even have organization liek Mechanicus in their hierarchy that is taking care of all technology.

You really have no Idea, what You're talking about. Here is the quote about the Bio-transferrnce for you.

With the pact between the Necrontyr and the C'tan sealed, the star gods revealed the form that immortality would take. Collosal bio-furnaces roared day and night, consuming weak-bodied flesh, and replacing it with enduring forms of living metal

See? There is nothing about "Black ships of the C'tan, that came from the sky" You just made that up. That's what I'm talking about.

The Orgnization you are speaking of, are Called Crypteks, and yes, they are the founders of Necron Technology. However, they existed long before the C'tan.

As well as everything else the Necrons have now...

It does not say that anywhere. You give me a direct quote on that. You keep saying that, but you have no source to back you up. I'll give you a hint: There isn't one.

So? It doesn't say what kind of technology it could even mean the same level like Tau and Imperium. The Necrontyr became unstoppable only when they received even better technology from C'Tan, that is said in your new codex to. And only then when the Old Ones had hard time to kill them they were defeated.

Once again, there is no source for them receiving better technology from the C'tan. None. The only thing it says in the Codex, is that the Necrons gained the knowledge of Bio-transference from the C'tan. There are also Indications, that Living-metal existed before the C'tan even came. All the C'tan did, was provide knowledge, on how the Bio-transferrence. It was Szeras that made it into a reality.

To give you a quote, here is a part about the Celestial Orrey that implies living metal existed long before the C'tan came to them.

Crafted by artisans of the Orscur dynasty, long before the onset of the War in heaven, this web of Hologram and living metal...

This quote implies that they had the Technology of Living metal, long before the C'tan ever arrived. The C'tan did not provide any kind of actual technolgy, to the Necrons. Only the Knowledge of Bio-transference.

To me it seems that you are regular fanboy who think taht his faction is uberawesome and you have wrapped your own opinion of how Necron should work, completely disregarding what your codex is telling us. You should be embarrassed for wrapping out the truth and telling totally diferent versions to all who ask about Necrons - even I am not that much zealous and twisted whe nit comes to the Imeprium.
I am done talking with you - ever.

You are the one who is not based in reality. You have spouted off "Facts" that you have made up, continuously. You fail to provide any sources, over and over again.

Coa, you've done nothing but gain a reputation on this forum, for being a blind imperium fanboy. No one can take you seriously, because of situations like this. I've provided facts and sources to back up my claims, and you've completely fabricated quotes. The problem is, this is just standard posting behavior for you, which is probably why you shoulden't even post. You bring nothing to this forum, at all.

DemetriDominov wrote:
Let's put it this way, up until about twenty years ago, Japan suffered from a chronic economic depression America literally forced the Japanese to dig themselves out of, in addition to abolishing their military, making Japan a US state with no rights that still had its sovereignty, like the American Indians - which we don't need to discuss, because that's an epic saga of sorrow and bloodshed.

I rest my case.

Relating this tangent to the topic, Humanity does not deserve to rule the galaxy, either by manifest destiny or by sheer might of arms. Those who have power largely manifest the worst qualities of our brutal and arrogant race and unlike the Old Ones,we still have not learned from our mistakes even in the 41st millennium. Possibly because our lifespans are too short for us to learn anything other than what has been written down by others, our ambition is too high to even read these articles, or we rarely care about the fates of others.

The strong and powerful live, while the weak and powerless die. It's a sad truth, but a truth nevertheless.

They also said that they lacked manpower to stop them, the one thing that Necrontyr had. C'Tan were the brain while Necrons were the meat.

Technically C'tan were the shadowy masters while the Necrons were used as the soldier and mechanical force. Thus providing their own production and large amounts of soldiers and their own technology to bear.

It's in your very codex, after Necrontyr leader agreed to C'Tan terms black ships came from the sky, Necrontyr rounded up all their people and inside those ships they were transformed. It was the C'Tan who transform them into what they are today. With that they gave them knowledge, if I am not mistaken they even have organization liek Mechanicus in their hierarchy that is taking care of all technology.

What they mostly gave them was the "Immortal Bodies", it never says they've given them knowledge of anything, if they did it would be how to put more of them in more bodies to fight, and how to properly repair, and teleport them.

As well as everything else the Necrons have now...

Just their bodies, they even had things like the gauss weaponry alongside things such as the Tesseract objects.

So? It doesn't say what kind of technology it could even mean the same level like Tau and Imperium. The Necrontyr became unstoppable only when they received even better technology from C'Tan, that is said in your new codex to. And only then when the Old Ones had hard time to kill them they were defeated.

Because gaining new bodies that never die, teleport themselves back, and repair themselves wouldn't give a big distinction in combat vs flesh and bone psykers.

It should be pointed out the Necoytr(SP?) ruled the galaxy long before the C'tan ever showed up. They simply could not win a war with the old ones as the old ones could more or less teleport away at will.

The C'tan brought immorality , not technology for the most part. They did however tell them how the webway worked, allowing them to make those lovely gates, which they used to break open the Old ones hiddy holes.

Troll post removed.

Hunterindarkness wrote:It should be pointed out the Necoytr(SP?) ruled the galaxy long before the C'tan ever showed up. They simply could not win a war with the old ones as the old ones could more or less teleport away at will.

The C'tan brought immorality , not technology for the most part. They did however tell them how the webway worked, allowing them to make those lovely gates, which they used to break open the Old ones hiddy holes.

Heh.
Perverted necrons. There's a thought.

But yeah, the necrontyr had all of that advanced tech before the C'tan came.

Living metal - Before C'tan (They put the C'tan into shells made of the stuff. Ergo, they had it before)

Gauss - Before C'tan

Every single necron war machine - Before C'tan (See: That organization of Crypteks whose name I have forgotten)

Tesla - Before C'tan (but after Nikolai )

Warping of Reality and control of extra dimensions - ...I think they got that from the C'tan actually. I'm not sure, but I would think that if they had it, they would have been able to counter act the Old Ones' webways

biotransference - From the C'tan (obviously)

Tesseract Labyrinth - Maybe before C'tan? They may not have had complete control of all that space-time stuff before the C'tan (I think, I'm not too sure. I gave my justification for thinking this earlier), but I wouldn't be surprised if they had delved into that area of science before.

The Codex explains that the Necrontyr were masters of science that would seem like magic to humans, or any other, lesser race, for that matter, long before the C'Tan arrived.

This is why they have an IC who can travel through time and stuff, as well as another who can impart "upgrades" to the unit he's attached to, and yet another who can throw lightning and stuff... without a C'Tan shard present.

Brother Coa wrote:



This is not true, Necrontuyr never ruled the galaxy - the Old Ones did. When Necrontyr started to expand beyond their original star systems they encountered the Old Ones and start a war against them. After some time they were pushed back in their core systems, meaning that they never had great empire until C'Tan helped them to conquer the galaxy.

This is incorrect. The codex stated they had colonized the whole of the galaxy. The old ones ruled nothing as they really did not care. They liked the meddle and it pissed the Nectyr off they could not out maneuver them. If you read the codex it flat out states the Necotyr were the force in the galaxy. But they were fractured and could never pin the races like the Old ones in as the old ones had the webway and only fought where and when they chose.

The C'tan gave them nothing except some knowledge of "immortality" and how the webway worked.. The C'tan gained far more power from the Necrotyr then the other way around.

I think It has been well established in this thread, that Coa does not know what he's talking about.

It's best to just ignore him, and let him revel in his ignorance.

You will all notice he didn't provide any sources again, for the 3rd time in this thread.

Lets see...


OLD-crons:

- rose on their little planet as one of the first races , but the Old ones were already out there and the C'Tan too.
- Old ones as the first to venture into the stars and also the masters of bio-engeneering.
- in their quest to create races to populate the Galaxy according to their plans, Eldar and orks, amongst others , came to life. Races built on purpose, in case of orks to fight against the C'Tan/Necrontyr alliance.
- C'tan as 'star-vampires' living from the energy of stars and not interested in the affairs of the planet-dwellers.
- the oldcrons had a good grasp of science but couldn't solve their problem: a short and painful life
- they found the C'tan and searching for a method to communicate with them invented the living metal shells.
- the C'tan accepted to help them..for a price.
- the oldcrons, imagining salvation went blindly for this until it was too late.
- after their loss of personality and the 'boon' of immortality, the necrons were basically the servants of the C'Tan.
- the necrontyr didn't establish control over this galaxy before they became necrons. The Necrontyr empire was a small one, and their attack on the old ones and their minions brought their empire to its knees until their homeworld was all thats left.
- the C'tan gave them the means to win, as the necrons had all eternity to fight the old ones in their new immortal existance.
- the old ones and their minions were routed, the necrons advancing relentlessy across the galaxy and harvesting the living for their C'tan masters. Only the upcoming enslaver plague, which endangered the "food" source of the C'tan, put an end to this and saw the C'Tan and the Necrons leaving. To sleep for eons and return when live has repopulated and their masters could feed again..
- but then the upstart humans came and stumbled into tombs, awakening the sleeping necrons and the C'tan.

Codex ( old ) crons page 63, a Eldar prophecy of the fate of the 'young' races describes the end as endless hordes of 'cattle' to feed the eternal masters of the Necrons. All four of them and the marks they put on their herd.

So maybe some of the posts in this thread got old and new fluff mixed?

NEW-crons:

- again, the old ones as the first to go for the stars
- the C'tan, still there from start but no longer as detailed and sucking on stars...
- the necrontyr, setting up their galaxy wide empire
- the empire threathened to loose its unity, starts a war to re-unite the necrontyr under one banner.
- the war isn't going well and the necrontyr are driven back. Too slow in their method of travel....
- this time, its not the threat of defeat, its the threat of disorder that motivates the necrontyr to accept the offers of the C'Tan
- the empire of the necrontyr, at a breaking point.
- a pact is made and the necrontyr turn into necrons, again the C'tan have the god-like powers and the necrons move along, but this time the C'tan aren't the undisputed rulers but the silent king, a necron.
- the C'Tan / necron alliance beats the old ones as before.
- but the necrons are not going to follow a master into a timeless sleep, the necrons rebel and splinter the C'tan.
- fearing the Eldar, they hide on these tomb worlds and the glaxy belongs to space elves for a while...
- the necrons wake up, one by one , since the time of the great crusade and the "sanctuary 101" is the first noticed contact now..

the undead in space is their new theme and terminator is soooo last year...

The Necrons can claim to have the Galaxy in their grasp for a while, but it is in both images, old and new, a temporary control since they had to release control.
Eldar got a chance to claim the Galaxy once and busted it.
Humans were on the way, but sabotaged by xenos and chaos. Still the humans are the ones to stand up after being struck down, so I'd guess
the lack of Eldar prophecys showing a fate as C'tan food hints on an altered course. Thus no more on the receiving end Terminator style,
the question who shall rule is answered by.... M.W. *shudders*

1hadhq wrote:the question who shall rule is answered by.... M.W. *shudders*

Noooo!

1hadhq wrote:the question who shall rule is answered by.... M.W. *shudders*

Emperor preserve us...

Sasori wrote:I think It has been well established in this thread, that Coa does not know what he's talking about.

Let's be polite to each other - posts like this is asking for MOD intervention.

Troll post removed.

Brother Coa wrote: Troll post removed.

By yourself?

When you guys mean by Humans having the right to rule the Milky way, do you mean any surviving human races that are not connected to the Imperium or just the Imperium?

I would like to say that the IoM is cabable of ruling the Milky way, but really with the vast amounts of people to feed and look after not to mention the vast areas to defend they are nowhere near ready for that kind work.

they might need to reform their administration systems first before they try that.

Just my opinion

I think that You can't prove that your worthy honestly , consideriably all that happens is the Imperium is dieing a slow and painful death but are making their enemies pay for every inch in their own blood , i personally play guard but the imperium is streched to thin