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dæl wrote:Perhaps the mother should tell the kid to do the fething homework in the first place!

Ayup. Cant really agree anymore with this. My son finished 1st grade at near the top of his class, top 5 anyways. Hes a smart kid, does he enjoy doing homework? Of course not. Do we make him do it? Of course we do. Thats KINNDA the job of the parent, you know, make sure your kids not being a feth up

Huh, a reward for failure, raising children right.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now this is the US as classrooms in other countries may not have these problems.
Just think, if classrooms didn't have the ne'erdo wells in them that suck up valuable classroom with their interruptions, with their not getting it, their poor behavior. What if, instead we focused on the other 90% of class, on making the good students better.

Lets face it, the gammas aren't going to get it and MacDonald's needs employees. Lets free up the hard working illegal immigrants for more productive, more skilled labor.

Make it so Number One.

I don't see much mileage in discussing this further because it's just an internet tough guy contest at the moment. Try actually teaching or working in a school and getting to know some kids, good and bad, before posturing with jokes about churning out cheap labour for flipping burgers.

I have taught in both normal and 'special' classes, and can positively say this : some children are beyond hope. Simply enough, there's only so much a good teacher can do to repair years of parental neglect. Regardless of how intelligent the kid is himself, if he heavily tends toward negativism, AND has parents that cannot provide a stable authority, then the teacher might have to simply abandon hope.

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe instead of making a card, the teacher should spend her time, oh, I don't know, helping the kid to do the homework? Or finding out just why it isn't being done?

If you have the time to make a card like that, you have enough time to help the kid.

Making something like that takes 10-15 minutes and that's if you bother to put on those foil seal thingies. Helping a problem kid takes considerably more time and parental involvement.

Yes, because I was completely suggesting that the time it takes to make a gakky card is directly equal to the amount of time it takes to solve a problem like this.

Congratulations, you successfully missed the point.

Avatar 720 wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe instead of making a card, the teacher should spend her time, oh, I don't know, helping the kid to do the homework? Or finding out just why it isn't being done?

If you have the time to make a card like that, you have enough time to help the kid.

Making something like that takes 10-15 minutes and that's if you bother to put on those foil seal thingies. Helping a problem kid takes considerably more time and parental involvement.

Yes, because I was completely suggesting that the time it takes to make a gakky card is directly equal to the amount of time it takes to solve a problem like this.

Congratulations, you successfully missed the point.

That you engaged in idealogical point scoring with no basis in reality?
No I got that. This kid attends a charter school with a low teacher to student ratio and likely receives a great deal more attention and effort to solve a problem like this than a child in public school would receive. I'm sure if she had simply been failed for failing to turn in homework her parent would have made a stink too. I think YOU missed the point...see this pie chart...mmm pie. it's not really a pie chart.

I think you missed the point here Auston...

Frazzled wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe instead of making a card, the teacher should spend her time, oh, I don't know, helping the kid to do the homework? Or finding out just why it isn't being done?

If you have the time to make a card like that, you have enough time to help the kid.

Horsepuckey. The teacher should be focused on the achievers in the class, not the nattering nabobs of negativity. if Princess Drool can't cut it, enough with dragging the rest of the class down. Best to cut our (society's) losses and send the family straight to the Soylent Green farm. under and enlightened Frazzled Administration, every citizen can serve, in one way or another...

Alright, that's the last straw. Frazzled for president. Let's turn the kids who won't work (and their parents) into fertilizer. If the teacher didn't send a letter to the parents, she can go too. If she sent the letter, she's off the hook. Frazzled for Pres, Weiner dogs for the Secret Service. They'd look quite fetching in black suits and shades...

Fetching, get it?

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe instead of making a card, the teacher should spend her time, oh, I don't know, helping the kid to do the homework? Or finding out just why it isn't being done?

If you have the time to make a card like that, you have enough time to help the kid.

Making something like that takes 10-15 minutes and that's if you bother to put on those foil seal thingies. Helping a problem kid takes considerably more time and parental involvement.

Yes, because I was completely suggesting that the time it takes to make a gakky card is directly equal to the amount of time it takes to solve a problem like this.

Congratulations, you successfully missed the point.

That you engaged in idealogical point scoring with no basis in reality?
No I got that. This kid attends a charter school with a low teacher to student ratio and likely receives a great deal more attention and effort to solve a problem like this than a child in public school would receive. I'm sure if she had simply been failed for failing to turn in homework her parent would have made a stink too. I think YOU missed the point...see this pie chart...mmm pie. it's not really a pie chart.

Love the image! I'm stealing this!

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe instead of making a card, the teacher should spend her time, oh, I don't know, helping the kid to do the homework? Or finding out just why it isn't being done?

If you have the time to make a card like that, you have enough time to help the kid.

Making something like that takes 10-15 minutes and that's if you bother to put on those foil seal thingies. Helping a problem kid takes considerably more time and parental involvement.

Yes, because I was completely suggesting that the time it takes to make a gakky card is directly equal to the amount of time it takes to solve a problem like this.

Congratulations, you successfully missed the point.

That you engaged in idealogical point scoring with no basis in reality?
No I got that. This kid attends a charter school with a low teacher to student ratio and likely receives a great deal more attention and effort to solve a problem like this than a child in public school would receive. I'm sure if she had simply been failed for failing to turn in homework her parent would have made a stink too. I think YOU missed the point

No basis in reality? Have you even heard the phrase "if you've got time to ______ then you've got time to _____."? Because I doubt it. It has very sound basis in reality. If you have spare time to do idle crap then that means that you could be using it to do something far more beneficial - in this case, seeing why the kid isn't doing their homework. Asking them to stay behind for a minute after the lesson isn't hard.

As for me missing the point ... No.

Beyond the fact that the parent decided to freak out about this, maybe this could've had the exact effect your mentioning, i.e. bringing attention to the fact that the kid isn't doing homeworks. For all we know there might have been attempts at contacting the parents, or mentions of it at the parent-teacher meeting.

We rewarded both most unexplained absences and most unexcused missed homeworks at our sec. school, and even worse, at the end of year gala, in front of the parents.

purplefood wrote:I think you missed the point here Auston...

I don't think I did. I'll highlight the relevant portions,.

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe instead of making a card, the teacher should spend her time, oh, I don't know, helping the kid to do the homework? Or finding out just why it isn't being done?

If you have the time to make a card like that, you have enough time to help the kid.[/quote]
Making something like that takes 10-15 minutes and that's if you bother to put on those foil seal thingies. Helping a problem kid takes considerably more time and parental involvement.

Yes, because I was completely suggesting that the time it takes to make a gakky card is directly equal to the amount of time it takes to solve a problem like this.

Congratulations, you successfully missed the point.

That you engaged in ideological point scoring with no basis in reality?
No I got that. This kid attends a charter school with a low teacher to student ratio and likely receives a great deal more attention and effort to solve a problem like this than a child in public school would receive. I'm sure if she had simply been failed for failing to turn in homework her parent would have made a stink too.

This kid already has advantage over other kids in the time and attention devoted to her care. The parents bear the burden of responsibility for their children. If the parent wasn't aware of a problem at school, she was willfully ignorant. See after-school homework assistance.

Avatar 720 wrote:

No basis in reality? Have you even heard the phrase "if you've got time to ______ then you've got time to _____."? Because I doubt it. It has very sound basis in reality. If you have spare time to do idle crap then that means that you could be using it to do something far more beneficial - in this case, seeing why the kid isn't doing their homework. Asking them to stay behind for a minute after the lesson isn't hard.

As for me missing the point ... No.

From the OP

adding that she was not aware her daughter had a problem with homework, and that the girl had been enrolled in an after-school homework assistance program.

If the parent had her enrolled in a homework assistance program she knew there was an issue. She received after school help. I suppose you expect the teacher to follow her home too?

Have you even heard the phrase "if you've got time to ______ then you've got time to _____."?

In this case you are using it as a logical fallacy, the time needed to create the award is not equal to the time needed to correct the child's deficiency. You have time to do idle crap like post on Dakka, why haven't you cured cancer yet. Because Avatar 720; If you have time to post on Dakka you have time to cure cancer. Sound basis in reality.

Yes, I expect the teacher to follow her home, which is exactly why I said she could ask her to stay behind after the lesson for a minute or two - Oh, wait, no it's not! I said she could ask her to stay behind for a minute or two because she can do that. I don't see how you can go back and bold parts of your own post, expecting people to read them, and then downright ignore parts of other people's posts when it pleases you. I love a bit of hypocrisy before bedtime.

As for your bit about Cancer, you are - once again - missing the point. I do not have the ability to cure Cancer for myriad reasons, whereas the teacher has both the ability and opportunity to at least attempt to help. Nice try though; 6/10 for effort but a 2/10 for execution.

Avatar 720 wrote:Yes, I expect the teacher to follow her home, which is exactly why I said she could ask her to stay behind after the lesson for a minute or two - Oh, wait, no it's not! I said she could ask her to stay behind for a minute or two because she can do that. I don't see how you can go back and bold parts of your own post, expecting people to read them, and then downright ignore parts of other people's posts when it pleases you. I love a bit of hypocrisy before bedtime.

As for your bit about Cancer, you are - once again - missing the point. I do not have the ability to cure Cancer for myriad reasons, whereas the teacher has both the ability and opportunity to at least attempt to help. Nice try though; 6/10 for effort but a 2/10 for execution.

And do you know for a fact that the teacher didn't bring this problem to the mothers attention before? Because the kid being enrolled in a homework assistance program kind of implies that the mother was aware that the kid had problems with her homework, so the teacher had already called it out to her attention...

But keep making excuses for a bad parent, the current and next generations of under-achiever, self-entitled brats sure seems to be working out for society!

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now this is the US as classrooms in other countries may not have these problems.
Just think, if classrooms didn't have the ne'erdo wells in them that suck up valuable classroom with their interruptions, with their not getting it, their poor behavior. What if, instead we focused on the other 90% of class, on making the good students better.

Lets face it, the gammas aren't going to get it and MacDonald's needs employees. Lets free up the hard working illegal immigrants for more productive, more skilled labor.

Make it so Number One.

Many kids will benefit greatly from the right sort of attention from a teacher, the idea that you can write off children as young as 8 for not doing their homework and concentrate on the rest is just ignorant and stupid. The younger they are when they fall behind the greater the struggle to catch up. There are all sorts of reasons children can't, don't or won't work. And you can make a great difference by taking the correct approach with them and their parents instead of throwing them on the scrap heap. Letting them destroy the education of fellow pupils isn't acceptable, but ignoring them and simply teaching the kids that are easy to teach is not a constructive way to teach the wide variety of children the pass through schools. Sorry the world isn't as fething simple as you want it to be.

I don't see much mileage in discussing this further because it's just an internet tough guy contest at the moment. Try actually teaching or working in a school and getting to know some kids, good and bad, before posturing with jokes about churning out cheap labour for flipping burgers.

Who are you in an internet tough guy contest with? I merely proposed an alternate viewpoint. Hey if its good enough for nature its good enough no? I thought Mother Nature was correct in all ways. Do you have a problem with Mother Nature?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:I think you missed the point here Auston...

No no Auston stumbled upon THE POINT...pie.

Pie is a type of baked good, in the same family as cake. Cake is the overarching category of greatness leading to only one ultimate conclusion...chocolate cake.

Chocolate Cake is THE POINT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

timetowaste85 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Maybe instead of making a card, the teacher should spend her time, oh, I don't know, helping the kid to do the homework? Or finding out just why it isn't being done?

If you have the time to make a card like that, you have enough time to help the kid.

Horsepuckey. The teacher should be focused on the achievers in the class, not the nattering nabobs of negativity. if Princess Drool can't cut it, enough with dragging the rest of the class down. Best to cut our (society's) losses and send the family straight to the Soylent Green farm. under and enlightened Frazzled Administration, every citizen can serve, in one way or another...

Alright, that's the last straw. Frazzled for president. Let's turn the kids who won't work (and their parents) into fertilizer. If the teacher didn't send a letter to the parents, she can go too. If she sent the letter, she's off the hook. Frazzled for Pres, Weiner dogs for the Secret Service. They'd look quite fetching in black suits and shades...

Fetching, get it?

Excellent. Another convert. We will place you high in our councils.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now this is the US as classrooms in other countries may not have these problems.
Just think, if classrooms didn't have the ne'erdo wells in them that suck up valuable classroom with their interruptions, with their not getting it, their poor behavior. What if, instead we focused on the other 90% of class, on making the good students better.

Lets face it, the gammas aren't going to get it and MacDonald's needs employees. Lets free up the hard working illegal immigrants for more productive, more skilled labor.

Make it so Number One.

Many kids will benefit greatly from the right sort of attention from a teacher, the idea that you can write off children as young as 8 for not doing their homework and concentrate on the rest is just ignorant and stupid. The younger they are when they fall behind the greater the struggle to catch up. There are all sorts of reasons children can't, don't or won't work. And you can make a great difference by taking the correct approach with them and their parents instead of throwing them on the scrap heap. Letting them destroy the education of fellow pupils isn't acceptable, but ignoring them and simply teaching the kids that are easy to teach is not a constructive way to teach the wide variety of children the pass through schools. Sorry the world isn't as fething simple as you want it to be.

I don't see much mileage in discussing this further because it's just an internet tough guy contest at the moment. Try actually teaching or working in a school and getting to know some kids, good and bad, before posturing with jokes about churning out cheap labour for flipping burgers.

::applause::

well said... I wish more people understood what teachers do... But sadly... the only way you can fully understand is to be one...

"Helping" the kid with her homework would be counterproductive. The point of homework is for kids to learn to work independently, to develop some psychological resilience and the ability to tackle problems without having to constantly ask for help. Having someone nearby to give a prod if they get stuck is fine, but the teacher would actually be doing a worse job if she "helped" the kid in this way.

I wouldn't have used a method like that to deal with a lack of homework though, possibly a note home (I hate having to call parents over every little thing, especially when I've got 300 students to take care of), a detention, or in extremis I'd call.

Why should the teacher have to help the child with homework, the teacher teaches the students everythings they should know and help them with the work within the classroom. Homework is independent work.

Of course nobody ever liked doing homework but it is a necessary evil and I think its dead funny that the child is getting an award for not doing anything at all. The teacher should be getting an award, not getting yelled at.

Then again, it does seem odd that the teacher is not making the kid do there work. It’s as simple as making her stay in at lunch and work. After not getting to play with her friends for a while, she will quickly learn to do the work when she would have nothing better to do i.e. when she is home.

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now this is the US as classrooms in other countries may not have these problems.
Just think, if classrooms didn't have the ne'erdo wells in them that suck up valuable classroom with their interruptions, with their not getting it, their poor behavior. What if, instead we focused on the other 90% of class, on making the good students better.

Lets face it, the gammas aren't going to get it and MacDonald's needs employees. Lets free up the hard working illegal immigrants for more productive, more skilled labor.

Make it so Number One.

I don't see much mileage in discussing this further because it's just an internet tough guy contest at the moment. Try actually teaching or working in a school and getting to know some kids, good and bad, before posturing with jokes about churning out cheap labour for flipping burgers.

I have taught in both normal and 'special' classes, and can positively say this : some children are beyond hope. Simply enough, there's only so much a good teacher can do to repair years of parental neglect. Regardless of how intelligent the kid is himself, if he heavily tends toward negativism, AND has parents that cannot provide a stable authority, then the teacher might have to simply abandon hope.

Seconded. I've never written off a kid from the get go, but within a few months you know if you are ever going to get work out of the kid or not. After that point, there really isn't much sense in devoting your time to that student- you've got over 20 other little minds to work on.

The other thing is- this is a student that won't do homework. Homework is maybe the one area that is still definitively not the teacher's responsibility. Teach the concept in class, check comprehension with students in general, and your questionable learners in particular, then see if they get it by them trying the homework. If the concept didn't stick, reteach. If it did for most, work with those that it didn't and move along.

But a student not doing homework is like a student that has too many absences- there's a problem there that a teacher can't fix.

I teach 8-12 English for at risk students and expectant or current mothers.

What if the teacher in question spent the entire year working with said child to improve their overall grades, only to finally realise that the kid has the IQ of a Chaffinch?

That would piss me off no end.....

As for the homework part, well sorry but homework prepares you for life by teaching that you can't have free time all the time, and sometimes you just have to knuckle down and get on with it. It's just typical these days that a special snowflake child is protected by overzealous parents who quite clearly don't know any better.... When I was at school, I hated it. Now I realise how cushy and easy it really was, there is not a day goes by that I don't wish I could go back...

In this day and age I'm afraid that as a teacher doing this sort of thing isn't going to fly with certain people, especially a bad parent who is overcompensating for her lack of involvement with her child's education by getting mad about the fact that her daughter's failure to do her homework was pointed out in a humorous fashion.

I understand why she did it, but I'm not sure it was smart given the sad, sad state of the world.

Monster Rain wrote:In this day and age I'm afraid that as a teacher doing this sort of thing isn't going to fly with certain people, especially a bad parent who is overcompensating for her lack of involvement with her child's education by getting mad about the fact that her daughter's failure to do her homework was pointed out in a humorous fashion.

I understand why she did it, but I'm not sure it was smart given the sad, sad state of the world.

Yeah that's mostly my concern : poor teacher should have seen the gakstorm coming. That there are still naive people in the world restore my faith in humanity.

What if the teacher in question spent the entire year working with said child to improve their overall grades, only to finally realise that the kid has the IQ of a Chaffinch?

That would piss me off no end.....

I think teachers learn quickly about cutting their losses, or they simply don't last. If you decide to turn every each one of them into geniuses, that's a breakdown inside the year. I started working with special classes when I was 16-17, for the 'charity' work we were told to do in the International Program. I worked for two months with this really hard kid who was totally anti-social, and was about to get kicked out of the school because he was getting violent (private schools = parents ready to sue). About two months in, I taught I had the trust of the kid, we were actually getting off better than him and his teacher, and I was starting to feel pretty damn good about it. Then the little gak head sucker kicked me, and a really, really vicious kick at that. I was beyond understanding him or anything. One second we were talking maths, and getting him to put a lot of effort in it, the next he kicks me in the back of the leg, you know, that spot where it really hurts and your knee just drops on the floor...

Every time I think about the guy, I wanted to kick his little face in.

So you cut your losses...

Kovnik Obama wrote:[

Love the image! I'm stealing this!

I tried to find it on the interwebz and just gave up and scanned it from our fridge.

Nah, homework, or at least the way most schools give homework, is a fethed up thing and we don't need it. Doing a report at home or something else that is actually worthwhile is fine, but I find myself staring at my Algebra, and wondering, "is this pointless trivial grinding really worth my time if I already know how to do it?". Seriously, its the freaking equivalent of skill grinding in an MMO, except it doesn't do you any good at all.

But feth it, I make a 4.0, I must be doing something right. I hate our education system though. If it was up to me I'd have been in college 2 years ago dammit.
/rant

Orlanth wrote:


This is an excellent piece of satire that shouldn't be hidden away in spoiler quotes. Copy saved.

So true...
The other day I read in a magazine teachers are looking for psychological help for student bullying around here. .
Makes me kinda proud when my grandma brags she was the most feared teacher back in her day

GalacticDefender wrote:Nah, homework, or at least the way most schools give homework, is a fethed up thing and we don't need it. Doing a report at home or something else that is actually worthwhile is fine, but I find myself staring at my Algebra, and wondering, "is this pointless trivial grinding really worth my time if I already know how to do it?". Seriously, its the freaking equivalent of skill grinding in an MMO, except it doesn't do you any good at all.

But feth it, I make a 4.0, I must be doing something right. I hate our education system though. If it was up to me I'd have been in college 2 years ago dammit.
/rant

Because grinding in an MMO 'do you any good'? You have a pretty bad opinion of what does you good... Maybe a bit of practice in those logic courses would've helped?

What you describe was true for a few of my friends up until they went to University. Before then, I was convinced I had a learning disorder ; after, it seemed like it was them who couldn't follow the class. Needless to say, as someone who as spent over 10 years of his life learning 'the hard way' how to play piano, I know for a fact that practice is an incredibly important skill to learn. I wouldn't hire anyone who believed otherwise for any position whatsoever...

Lol, I actually don;t play any MMO's, though I assumed it would be slightly more productive in the virtual sense.

But I find that hours of homework that I already know how to do makes me so burned out on it that it is difficult to focus the next day in class. A little practice is fine, but 4 pages? Frikkin ridiculous.

Wow... I guess 4 pages of homework a night doesn't look that bad to me. Besides the homeworks, the piano lesson and the book of the week, I didn't plan on doing anything during my weekdays evenings.