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kronk wrote:More is better. All codecies will get fliers. Calm down. [Que resests watch references]

What do you mean all codices will get fliers, you know they are skimmers, right?

sierra 1247 wrote:

Agent_Tremolo wrote:@sierra 1247: Hey! You army boys were the first to get a flier worthy of that name, and now us poor neglected xenos get some, you get jealous. It's unfair!

@Vaktathi: Good point. You know, while I was counting the LBRT variants, a voice in my head kept saying 'Tremolo, yer cheating'. Yes, most IG options are variants of a single chassis and worse, most need Forgeworld/conversion work to be properly represented ingame.

Still, I think the Guard codex needs some streamlining, leaving out the unusable and the redundant...

actually i think its good that the xenos have some fliers, i was more getting at SM who now have about four of them...


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labmouse42 wrote:

riplikash wrote:the C:SM need a flyer when the entire game is being taken in the direction of fliers?.

This.

Every army in the game are getting flyers. You can reasonably assume that flyers will be a big part of the 6th edition game.
Flyers are like tanks. Their cool and neat to see, and you can expect armies to be fielding them in the future. In this release 2 xenos got them and one imperial.
So cut down on the marine hate.

yeah but considering that SM got the stormraven last year and have always had landspeeders, its not exactly fair to see the IN or IG to have only one flyer when a lot of armies have a lot more airbourne vehicles than what is essentially an extremely diverse fight unit using airbourne, mechanised and armoured divisions,

Well, actually it was Blood Angels and Grey Knights who got the Stormraven. I wouldn't mind having that in my base codex as an option, but it's not there.

Badboybellman wrote:

kronk wrote:More is better. All codecies will get fliers. Calm down. [Que resests watch references]

What do you mean all codices will get fliers, you know they are skimmers, right?

It's heavily implied by GW that 6th edition will add a new unit type called fliers to the game, which will include the units with the large flier bases that are high in the air, such as the new units, valks/vendettas, stormravens, and the things in the DE codex.

Milisim wrote:Well if GW is a mini company first... maybe they should hire some mini sculptors then instead of the gakkers they have now pumping out the Storm talon.


I see Infinity jumping leaps and bounds this year based on GW pricing AND GW model quality.

Now you are just being silly. Every company makes some design mis-steps (and many people love the storm talon), but GW unquestionably has some of the best quality models in the industry.

Very few if any other western model companies offer anything like the possibility, configurability, ease of assembly, and interactive movement GW does. (I am of course specifying WESTERN companies. Many asian countries offer models that blow GWs stuff out of the water...for a measly 250$ per gundam. )

While GWs sculps are unfortunately rooted in the "heroic scale" design, which I'm not a fan of, but within that design they offer sculpting and detail equal the best any other mainstream mini producer offers.

As for pricing...while I don't like GW's pricing policy, why compare them to Infinity? They cost the same amount! $15+ for characters, $30+ for troops. With no bits or extra pieces, no posability, and very little modding potential. Certainly infinity minis have more dynamic, interesting poses, but that is a trade-off you have to make. Bits and possibility/modablility vs dynamic poses. Certainly you can get together an army in Infinity for cheaper, but on a model for model basis they are roughly equivalent price-wise.

GW's recent track record as a miniature company is fantastic. The Necrons, DE, GK, BA, and flyer release have all been fantastic. Even the Storm Talon looks like it is an excellent, high quality kit, even if you don't agree with the aesthetic choices.

Again it's silly to claim GW is a bad mini company just because you don't like the design of ONE model release.

sierra 1247 wrote:get the guard some much neded air support

Guard currently have more air support options than any other:

Valkyrie
Vendetta
Thunderbolt
Lightning
Lightning Strike
Arvus Lighter
Marauder (apoc only super-heavy)
Marauder Destroyer (apoc only super-heavy)

ETA I forgot:
Vulture
Sky Talon

A plastic thunderbolt would be aces though.


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riplikash wrote:Now you are just being silly. Every company makes some design mis-steps (and many people love the storm talon), but GW unquestionably has some of the best quality models in the industry.

To be fair - GW does pretty decent heroic infantry and their new designers definitely know way more about cars/trucks/bikes than the old ones.

However, it's also clear that they know little about tanks (track designs on Chimera, Leman Russ and LandRaider chassis are laughable) and even less about aircraft.

riplikash wrote:

Milisim wrote:Well if GW is a mini company first... maybe they should hire some mini sculptors then instead of the gakkers they have now pumping out the Storm talon.


Very few if any other western model companies offer anything like the possibility, configurability, ease of assembly, and interactive movement GW does. (I am of course specifying WESTERN companies. Many asian countries offer models that blow GWs stuff out of the water...for a measly 250$ per gundam. )

uhm, have you ever heard of airfix, revell, italeri and flames of war...
all WESTERN companies with damm good miniatures


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Scott-S6 wrote:

sierra 1247 wrote:get the guard some much neded air support

Guard currently have more air support options than any other:

Valkyrie
Vendetta
Thunderbolt
Lightning
Lightning Strike
Arvus Lighter
Marauder (apoc only super-heavy)
Marauder Destroyer (apoc only super-heavy)

ETA I forgot:
Vulture
Sky Talon

A plastic thunderbolt would be aces though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

riplikash wrote:Now you are just being silly. Every company makes some design mis-steps (and many people love the storm talon), but GW unquestionably has some of the best quality models in the industry.

To be fair - GW does pretty decent heroic infantry and their new designers definitely know way more about cars/trucks/bikes than the old ones.

However, it's also clear that they know little about tanks (track designs on Chimera, Leman Russ and LandRaider chassis are laughable) and even less about aircraft.

yeah, most of these aircraft arent in the current IG codex and the only models available are on forgeworldwhich are insanely expensive...
and the lighting strike fighter is only different because of its autocannon, if this was the case for all armies that just because a vehicle has a slightly different armament then every army would immediatley have the same number of air support options.


though you last point is very true, a battle cannon is definatley not 120 mm and a leman russ' armour probably would be penetrated by autocannon fire, and the ork bommer is probably the only aircraft produced by GW that would actually fly (apart from the razorwing).

sierra 1247 wrote:yeah but considering that SM got the stormraven last year and have always had landspeeders, its not exactly fair to see the IN or IG to have only one flyer when a lot of armies have a lot more airbourne vehicles than what is essentially an extremely diverse fight unit using airbourne, mechanised and armoured divisions,

Space Marines only have the Storm Talon. The Storm Raven is only available to GK & BA. So, technically, no Space Marine codex has more than one flyer, and some of them (Black Templars, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves) have none.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

sierra 1247 wrote:yeah but considering that SM got the stormraven last year and have always had landspeeders, its not exactly fair to see the IN or IG to have only one flyer when a lot of armies have a lot more airbourne vehicles than what is essentially an extremely diverse fight unit using airbourne, mechanised and armoured divisions,

Space Marines only have the Storm Talon. The Storm Raven is only available to GK & BA. So, technically, no Space Marine codex has more than one flyer, and some of them (Black Templars, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves) have none.

yes but the expanded DA black templars and space wolves codexes still use the standard SM codex as well, the chapter specific codexes are used to explore the chapters a bit more and to represent the chapters better in the game to suit their fighting styles.

sierra 1247 wrote:
yes but the expanded DA black templars and space wolves codexes still use the standard SM codex as well, the chapter specific codexes are used to explore the chapters a bit more and to represent the chapters better in the game to suit their fighting styles.

No they don't, otherwise they would have land speeder storms and thunderfire cannons. SW would probably like land speeder storms with their elite scouts.

dæl wrote:

sierra 1247 wrote:
yes but the expanded DA black templars and space wolves codexes still use the standard SM codex as well, the chapter specific codexes are used to explore the chapters a bit more and to represent the chapters better in the game to suit their fighting styles.

No they don't, otherwise they would have land speeder storms and thunderfire cannons. SW would probably like land speeder storms with their elite scouts.

well considering that most space wolves are superstitous about airbourne vehicles i think they wouldnt really.

sierra 1247 wrote:

dæl wrote:

sierra 1247 wrote:
yes but the expanded DA black templars and space wolves codexes still use the standard SM codex as well, the chapter specific codexes are used to explore the chapters a bit more and to represent the chapters better in the game to suit their fighting styles.

No they don't, otherwise they would have land speeder storms and thunderfire cannons. SW would probably like land speeder storms with their elite scouts.

well considering that most space wolves are superstitous about airbourne vehicles i think they wouldnt really.

Fair point.
I guess they're superstitious about artillery too though, hence no thunderfire.

they might not be superstitous about artillery but they are about flying

We don't mind flying, it's the sudden stop that concerns us.

GW do make nice miniatures but they do seem to have difficulty with balancing rules. Fantasy 8th for example is reasonably balanced, right up until you have level 4 wizards 6 dicing spells in order to remove the majority of units in one shot. That said, the army books released so far seem balanced against each other, so hopefully (if they can get them all done before 9th comes around) when the armies are all redone there won't be any extraordinarily powerful or weak armies.

40k is in a similar state where some armies are still using 4th edition codexes, while 6th edition is just around the corner. Although I know that people would dislike it, I would almost want to see Blood Angels/Dark Angels/Black Templars rolled into the Marine Codex so armies like Tau could actually get a break.

sierra 1247 wrote:

Agent_Tremolo wrote:Extra units? For the IG?

If there's an army that would probably benefit from less units/variants, it's the Guard. Not all of us can boast 14 different heavy support options!.

actually the guard is one of the most varied units in the imperium, some people would quite like to have more than just tank armies or infantry regiments, get the guard some much neded air support and it
would provide some links to the background of the IG

IG has no air support in the fluff, even Valkyries are technically Imperial Navy property. They only really need more options for troops. Let squads in the platoon structure take the same options they could when doctrines were around, let them take carapace armour, camo cloaks, meltabombs, and maybe a few USRs. Odds are they will be terrible options to take, but it will allow more options for fun armies.

Do SM need more units?- not really.


Are they going to get them anyway? - Probably

Is there anything that will change GW's mind about this?- Not really.

*shrug*

The more SM kits they put out, the more i can loot and paint blue, and claim that they belonged to my recently deceased grandmother, who only drove them on Sundays, to church

I still think that if they were going to release the Stormtalon then they needed to make it usable by Dark Angels and Black Templars as well as the generic Marines. Those are the 2 loyalist codexes out that are the oldest so it would have breathed a little new life into those 2 armies, they could have even sold more models but they were idiots and didn't.

I am really hoping the rumor about the Chaos Dragon Daemon Engine thing is true, I want to see a Daemonic mechanical dragon eat some Grey Knights or at the very least blow them to pieces with some sort of ranged weaponry.