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Telsiph wrote:Looking at your list Mannahnin, I like it, but couple of things. Lesser daemons? That works for you?

They win me a lot of games.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330745.page#2170605

Telsiph wrote:Vanilla CSM over Plague marines?

CSM have more offense, and are less durable against light antiinfantry weapons and close combat attacks, but more durable (point for point) against power fists, plasma, missile launchers, etc.

Telsiph wrote:I'm definitely going to incorporate an outflanking Chosen squad, just concerned over the randomness.

When I used to Outflank with them I used two squads to mitigate the randomness. When using them as a GD delivery point, you never want to Outflank them, as there's only a 1/4 chance that they'll arrive on the table before the GD shows up.

Telsiph wrote:Termicide squad could go to hell, outflank squad could come in on the wrong side, etc.

Icons mitigate the randomness of terminators a bit. You still have to deal with reserve rolls, but if you land within 6" of an icon you get to precision-place with no scatter. Very nice with meltas.

Telsiph wrote:Do you feel as though the 2 10x vanilla CSM could be replaced with 7x plague marines? Plague marines with 2x melta, and a plague champion with power fist ends up being 221, and so I would only need to setup 4 additional plague marines and go with it.

Yes, you can, and it works. It doesn't put out quite as much offense, but it's more durable and Fearless is really nice.

Telsiph wrote:I have a 5x with the flamer already (old school CSM Flamer model). Do you feel those lesser daemons are vital? I have 1 lesser daemon, he just came with it for kicks, so I would need to order multiple squads for that. 7 khorne berserkers wouldn't have the same bang as those lesser daemons would?

Lesser Daemons are one of the key advantages CSM have that other armies don't. They're there primarily as cheap fearless scoring units which show up where you need them mid-game. They give you greater flexibility and adaptability mid game, and inflate your scoring unit count.

Telsiph wrote:Thanks for your time!

Glad to help!

Ailaros wrote:

KingDeath wrote:Oh great, paying almost 300 points for a full 1ksons squad and all you get is the ability to stand in the open

You get a 4++ save, which means that everywhere on the board is a cover save. You're not beholden to hiding in cover, and can basically ignore this part of the game.

Cover becomes LOS blocking- a unit with a 4++ uses cover to block LOS to say that Leman russ, not so much because you don't get your armor save but more because they wound you on 2+ and theres only so many 4++ saves ye can take...

Ailaros wrote:You get a sergeant who comes with a power weapon that causes instant death for free. He can also take a psychic power that includes the phrase "removed from play" with regards to how he hurts enemy units, along with a lot of other options.

A pricey sarge you MUST take, but he does have a force weapon. But how often can you use the force weapon? I've found people have looked at 1k sons and gone "hmmmm... 4++, hidden force weap, and can spawn me. Have a mob of genestealers, my tyrant has better things to do".
And, again ""removed from play"= win. I wouldn't take bolt, paying 300p for a S8 AP1 shot ain't really worth it. Gift works well with the squad, and with CSM's 0-12" optimum range band.

Ailaros wrote:You get a 4++ save, which means that you basically treat power fist and power weapon and DCCW attacks as if they were regular close combat attacks.

mmmm more you treat PW attacks as regular attacks. LC's still get rerolls, powerfists still wound you on a 2+. Easily causing wounds that you have to make a coinflip armor save against... well they'll last longer than other CSM or marines. But they still don't last very long.

Ailaros wrote:
Your small arm comes with Ap3 which means your opponent absolutely must, under every circumstance, have cover saves. This may not mean much to horde players, but forcing marine armies to behave like horde armies is a real advantage. Being able to hideously gun down monstrous creatures from 30" away is another...

This i feel is another important element to 1k sons. Simply threatening marines with armor save removal will intimidate most MEQ armies and give you much greater board control. You don't have to butcher hordes of marines for AP3 bolters to be effective- if you can keep those GH fumbling through cover to avoid the AP3 volley, you've forced your opponent into doing what you want.

Ailaros wrote:ou get fearless. No long shot pinning check failures. No PBS shenannigans. No running and getting caught in a sweep. Like other things mentioned above, you get to basically ignore the part of the rules that talks about morale.

Eh. Most of the codex IS fearless. It messes with me when i play other armies because I actually do have to take morale checks lol

Whilst I don't think 1k sons are the most "competitive" choice, they are good especially when used to their full capability.