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Kovnik Obama wrote:

A being that can be a threat to stars and fleets by themselves should never have to worry about some sword-waving dude.

So very very wrong...

The beings who could threathen stars etc usually find their end by some sword waving dude. Because said being tend to be the villain and thus some upstart hero will be their doom.

1hadhq wrote:

Kovnik Obama wrote:

A being that can be a threat to stars and fleets by themselves should never have to worry about some sword-waving dude.

So very very wrong...

The beings who could threathen stars etc usually find their end by some sword waving dude. Because said being tend to be the villain and thus some upstart hero will be their doom.

A ''steamboat to the face'' plan I could get behind. A sword should be about as threathening as a hair, to an Elder Being-ish creature.

If history has showed us anything (well fictional history) that the sword waving mass murdering psychotic good guy always kills or defeats the well meaning misunderstood extra-galactic peace misionary... poor poor Cthulu gribblies

Kovnik Obama wrote:
This. If anything I wish the new fluff would once and for all establish that he was, in comparison to other beings/psykers, just a very strong human. I'd even love if they finally came out and said that the whole 'immortality' and 'watching over humanity' was bullcrap, the emperor was just some old crazy scientist/psyker who projected on everyone the belief that he was a supernatual being....

A being that can be a threat to stars and fleets by themselves should never have to worry about some sword-waving dude.

If anything, I have to believe that the Emperor was this powerful. He felt, and very successfully until the HH accomplished, taking over the entire Galaxy with Humans at his side. We know Humans suck through and through, so he had to make up for it somehow by being probably as awesome as you don't want to admit he was.

plus your all forgetting the C'tans biggest weakness was the big E's strongest trait.. psy powers, a lone C'tan would have no defence from this, as i have said before... how the hell did he get it to mars!

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:I have to say I find the idea of the Emperor, even back in the day was the equal to a full C'tan kinda laughable. The Codex even stats that some shards get to powerful to safly use and some could be combined. I would say the void dragon on mars is simply that, a shard that got out of hand. By the time it hit earth the Necrons had long ago went sleepy sleep. A shard from a now destoried tombworld, free of its masters makes way more sense then a full C'tan.

The Emperor was Powerful, he was not that damned powerful.

This. If anything I wish the new fluff would once and for all establish that he was, in comparison to other beings/psykers, just a very strong human. I'd even love if they finally came out and said that the whole 'immortality' and 'watching over humanity' was bullcrap, the emperor was just some old crazy scientist/psyker who projected on everyone the belief that he was a supernatual being....

A being that can be a threat to stars and fleets by themselves should never have to worry about some sword-waving dude.

I think he was far above mortal human. He was nowhere in the range of Chaos gods or the C'tan, but he was damned powerful. He could have well been a supernatural thing, but before the age of stiff psykers where not very common, at most he might, might have a a few hundred psykers combined within him, but those are old psykers, before the warp became so active He may have been immortal and very smart and had a nice level of power but, As I said, he was good and he was powerful, but he was not take on a full C'tan level of power.

The four Chaos Gods got together to smash the Emperor.

Isn't that enough of an indication to show how powerful he was/is?

Medium of Death wrote:The four Chaos Gods got together to smash the Emperor.

Isn't that enough of an indication to show how powerful he was/is?

by possessing the most powerful primarch... and only wounded him (nearly to death), i mean that is badass

Medium of Death wrote:The four Chaos Gods got together to smash the Emperor.

Isn't that enough of an indication to show how powerful he was/is?

Considering that they are all pathetic and nonsensical beings? Yes, it makes sense. They can't be bothered to accomplish anything by themselves, so... And contrarily to most, I don't think the Chaos God so much feared the Emperor, as much as they saw an incredible opportunity in him. And a risk, of course.

And there is a difference here. A Chaos God can barely do anything on this plane of existence without influencing an agent. Nurgle seems the most apt at directly doing something through his diseases, but even then, it's a bit more random and indirect then killing you with a death ray. A C'tan can personally go and eat the sun, instead of dealing with you, leaving after to let you work out the fun question of 'how long can I last without heat, food, energy, etc... ?'. That difference means that in a straight up fight, yes, a C'tan is more powerful than a Chaos God, simply because a Chaos God shouldn't get in a position to fight you in direct combat.

Of course, this might all be changing in the era of Draigo 'I Pawn The Immaterium'...

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:The four Chaos Gods got together to smash the Emperor.

Isn't that enough of an indication to show how powerful he was/is?

Considering that they are all pathetic and nonsensical beings? Yes, it makes sense. They can't be bothered to accomplish anything by themselves, so... And contrarily to most, I don't think the Chaos God so much feared the Emperor, as much as they saw an incredible opportunity in him. And a risk, of course.

And there is a difference here. A Chaos God can barely do anything on this plane of existence without influencing an agent. Nurgle seems the most apt at directly doing something through his diseases, but even then, it's a bit more random and indirect then killing you with a death ray. A C'tan can personally go and eat the sun, instead of dealing with you, leaving after to let you work out the fun question of 'how long can I last without heat, food, energy, etc... ?'. That difference means that in a straight up fight, yes, a C'tan is more powerful than a Chaos God, simply because a Chaos God shouldn't get in a position to fight you in direct combat.

Of course, this might all be changing in the era of Draigo 'I Pawn The Immaterium'...

i see, so a being that can only affect one plane of existence is more powerfull than one that can affect any number of existences... ok

The Chaos goes do interact with the real world on a regular basis, in the deamon book Khorne got angry and the sky started raining blood...upwards.. and deamons pooped into existence, when a C'tan gets angy.. it eats a star... big woop lol, also on that note... does the Cron fluff tell us how long said star eating takes, because if its miliions of years.. who cares lol.

Also mastery of the Universes pysics dont mean didly in the face of something that turns water into multilimbed killer ducks from Heeeeeeeeellllll!! (to be clear you can master gravity all you like, but it means nothing when the chaos gods go "no gravity doesnt exist lalalalalalalala")

Formosa wrote:i see, so a being that can only affect one plane of existence is more powerfull than one that can affect any number of existences... ok

The Chaos goes do interact with the real world on a regular basis, in the deamon book Khorne got angry and the sky started raining blood...upwards.. and deamons pooped into existence, when a C'tan gets angy.. it eats a star... big woop lol, also on that note... does the Cron fluff tell us how long said star eating takes, because if its miliions of years.. who cares lol.

Also mastery of the Universes pysics dont mean didly in the face of something that turns water into multilimbed killer ducks from Heeeeeeeeellllll!! (to be clear you can master gravity all you like, but it means nothing when the chaos gods go "no gravity doesnt exist lalalalalalalala")

The C'tan can influence a myriad of life, if they aren't sharded. Not in the same means of possession and temptation, sure, but the Necron Empire is a testament to their influence. So they can do that, and they can take a direct influence on the world. Khorne hit a fit, and khornate deamon worlds and areas where ''the reality is thin" will see bouts of deamonic incursion.

Mind you, I'm not downplaying the might of the Chaos Gods, they are amongst the most powerful beings in known 40k, it's just that their power isn't expressed in the same way. It's a question of domains of might. Chaos rules emotions, and when it's powerful enough, it projects those emotions on reality. C'tans directly impose their will on reality, and have no registry on the warp level.

The Emperor is subject to both.

Formosa wrote:plus your all forgetting the C'tans biggest weakness was the big E's strongest trait.. psy powers, a lone C'tan would have no defence from this, as i have said before... how the hell did he get it to mars!

And you forget that in the old fluff, the Void Dragon took several hits from the Blackstone Fortresses and all it did was make him sleepy (Okay, weakened him a bit and then he was further weakened as he was starved out by Mr. Troll (aka The Deceiver) but was still in this weakened state able to give the Emperor the fight of his life for 2 straight days until the emperor found a weakness that probably wouldn't have been there if the Void Dragon was at full strength).

King Pariah wrote:

Formosa wrote:plus your all forgetting the C'tans biggest weakness was the big E's strongest trait.. psy powers, a lone C'tan would have no defence from this, as i have said before... how the hell did he get it to mars!

And you forget that in the old fluff, the Void Dragon took several hits from the Blackstone Fortresses and all it did was make him sleepy (Okay, weakened him a bit and then he was further weakened as he was starved out by Mr. Troll (aka The Deceiver) but was still in this weakened state able to give the Emperor the fight of his life for 2 straight days until the emperor found a weakness that probably wouldn't have been there if the Void Dragon was at full strength).

Which is one reason I hate the newcron fluff. The Void Dragon was the mightiest being in existence taking multiple hits from the most destructive weapon ever created - the Blackstone Warp Cannons - was barely imprisoned by the Emperor only because the Dragon was hungry and weak.