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There is no single living C'tan now ?

The C'tan are rumoured the be Sharded, and the codex alludes to the fact that were the shards allowed to recombine it would be very unplesant for the Necrons (and likely the universe in general). I believe there is enough scope that there is a slim chance that somewhere in a dark corner there is a c'tan still in one piece, but for the scope of the game there's just the shards of them.

I still consider the "big 4" to be in one piece (The Nightbringer, Deceiver, Outsider and Dragon), but thats just my interpretation of the fluff.

The necrons could not destroy the c'tan so they locked their essence in to 1000's of shards so that they weren't powerful enough to escape.
The only exception to this could be the void dragon as he is locked on mars becuase even the Emperor could not destroy him.
I am personally hoping in the next IA book with the necrons in there will be big c'tan shards tho represent shards that are bigger than normal so that then they will be more powerful, and they may become named, which would be cool as then Forge World would make c'tan that are bigger and much better than the ailcast rubbish from GW.

There is exactly one c'tan that is dead, and that is Llandu'gor, the Flayer. All other c'tan are in the form of shards. This in no way prevents any of their previously stated actions from occurring, as all of those actions could have been performed by a shard (Yes, even the fight with the Emperor) and in fact gives an explanation for any differences in personality or description of a particular c'tan as each shard represents a different aspect of their being. The majority of the shards are kept under lock and key by the Necrons, to be used when they are required, but there could still be hundreds of shards from dozens of c'tan still out there in the galaxy.

It's even debated if Llandu'gor is actually dead or just... dispersed in some way and yet to reform/recombine/whatever it is star-vampires do. It's implied that the C'tan are akin to elemental forces of the physical universe and, as such, cannot ever truly be killed, though this may also apply to some (the currently sharded ones) and not all (the possibly dead one).

They're not gods, not exactly, but they appear to be the next best thing.

The January issue of White Dwarf has an article about the C'Tan and unfortunately, in rather explicit language, it states that Llandu'gor is completely and utterly destroyed. I don't think he'll be coming back any time soon. While under normal circumstances a c'tan will just reform, similar to a daemon, I feel Llandu'gor is a bit of an exception.

The outsider is likely still in one piece, but he's locked away inside of a gigantic dyson sphere anyway. If and when he ever decides to stop crying to himself while listening to my chemical romance and come out, the galaxy is fethed.

From reading the fluff, this is my interpretation:

Llandu'gor is the only C'tan broken so hard that comparatively whereas other C'tan are broken into shards, he was ground into dust. Though he can never hope to regain a material form, he still wreaks his revenge upon the necron, infecting them one by one with portions of his dispersed essence creating the Flayed Ones.

The Outsider I believe now is a collection of shards of many C'tan that have merged themselves to create a new C'tan (the Outsider) designed to wreak vengeance upon the Necrons and destroy life in the galaxy. It still bides its time as it is not strong enough yet to crush the traitorous Necrons and thus avoids them whenever possible to avoid a united Necron front which it could not hope to withstand. Thus in the meantime, the Outsider explores the galaxy for other shards that have escaped the grasp of the Necrons and assimilates them. Whether these other shards are willing or unwilling to become a part of it, the Outsider cares not. All that matters is revenge upon the Necrons who dared to shame the C'tan, and the galaxy will suffer it's unbridled wrath as well.

Listing the 'sharded' ones from WD:

- Mephet'ran
- Aza'gorod
- Iash'uddra
- Og'driada
- Tsara'noga
- Yggra'nya
- Nyadra'zatha
- Mag'ladroth

This includes the 4 known ones.

Codex Necrons doesn't state all C'tan are splintered for sure, as it leaves the chance of rumors of still existing C'Tan as possibly true.
The shard entry for example, says that even the Eldar who should remember how many they had to oppose aren't sure.
( Black library , Ulthwe , Alaitoc ) There be 4 or 4.000.

Based on this, complete C'tan may still exist. The 4 known ones in their 1st dex were the 'big' four and it was like only these remained. Now, we have no C'tan vs C'tan anymore and this leaves room for "minor" C'tan, hidden C'Tan, etc etc.

A bit off-topic, but IMO the idea of shards is just gak. It's like saying Lorgar, Magnus, and the other Daemon Princes went and split the Chaos Powers up into smaller aspects and used them for their own ends. The C'tan in the oldcron fluff were way more badass, especially the Void Dragon. That guy survived a blast from the main Warp Cannon of a Blackstone Fortress. Not to be mention so powerful as to make the Emperor, whom even the Powers fear, unable to kill him, just imprison him. And last of all the name: Dragon of the Void.

As for the others, there's the Nightbringer. He fought and survived a battle with Khaine at height of his power (though I'm not really impressed, Khaine couldn't even defeat Slaanesh, while Khorne punches the lights out of him/her/it on a regular basis), not to mention imprinting all the races, except the Orks, with the fear of death. He's got a badass name as well, even more than the Void Dragon: Kaelis Ra, Devourer of the Light, the Nightbringer.

Its only "Void" Dragon in one source, before splintering him, tough.

Consider the writers to happy on splintering Gods. The Eldar, shards of Khaine. These demons, shards of their "Gods".
Now C'tan... so don't give them ideas of splintered Primarchs

Have them splinter Gork and Mork, the hive mind etc OtoH.....

At worst, we get shards of the Emperor.

1hadhq wrote:Its only "Void" Dragon in one source, before splintering him, tough.

True, but Dragon of the Void is my personal name for the guy, seeing as he was the mightiest of the C'tan.

Now C'tan... so don't give them ideas of splintered Primarchs

Have them splinter Gork and Mork, the hive mind etc OtoH.....

At worst, we get shards of the Emperor.

Torches will burn.

I dont like to think a mere "shard" could effect the entire development of the ad mech on mars.

Tadashi wrote:

Torches will burn.

* pitchfork always ready...*

vodo40k wrote:I dont like to think a mere "shard" could effect the entire development of the ad mech on mars.

Agreed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Torches will burn.

* pitchfork always ready...*

Spoiler:

The maybe unfounded fear of mine is, they think we want big kits of MC and to have those around in imperial armies we'll get
some sort of "avatar" too. A bit like the wave of monsters for WHFB.

By the Throne, aren't Living Saints enough of an 'avatar' for the Imperial armies. It wouldn't fit the Space Marines or the Imperial Guard.

Tadashi wrote:A bit off-topic, but IMO the idea of shards is just gak. It's like saying Lorgar, Magnus, and the other Daemon Princes went and split the Chaos Powers up into smaller aspects and used them for their own ends. The C'tan in the oldcron fluff were way more badass, especially the Void Dragon. That guy survived a blast from the main Warp Cannon of a Blackstone Fortress. Not to be mention so powerful as to make the Emperor, whom even the Powers fear, unable to kill him, just imprison him. And last of all the name: Dragon of the Void.

As for the others, there's the Nightbringer. He fought and survived a battle with Khaine at height of his power (though I'm not really impressed, Khaine couldn't even defeat Slaanesh, while Khorne punches the lights out of him/her/it on a regular basis), not to mention imprinting all the races, except the Orks, with the fear of death. He's got a badass name as well, even more than the Void Dragon: Kaelis Ra, Devourer of the Light, the Nightbringer.

Your opinion is noted, but I find it short-sighted. As far as we know, the necrons were the most technologically advanced race to have existed in the galaxy, with the exception of the old ones who we really know nothing about. If any race would've been able to sunder a being of god-like power, it was going to be them. To use chaos as an example, because under the old background, the chaos gods and c'tan would've been of equivalent power, you're saying that Khorne is awesome, but a Bloodthirster or a Lord of Change could never be badass, despite being of the equal of any one shard. Furthermore, there's no evidence to suggest that the Emperor wouldn't have been capable of destroying a shard of the Dragon, but instead purposefully left it alive and trapped to further his plans.

Everything that the C'tan are described as doing, aside from any major actions during the War in Heaven, could be done by a shard.

Tadashi wrote:

vodo40k wrote:I dont like to think a mere "shard" could effect the entire development of the ad mech on mars.

Agreed.

Why not? If a world had a greater daemon trapped at its heart for hundreds of years, you don't believe the population would be influenced to turn to chaos? In fact, this exact event has occurred in the dark angel books and one of the Eisenhorn books. Mars is still one planet, and in its infancy, it would've been as susceptible to manipulation just like any other world in the galaxy.

On a personal note, the relationship between the Necrons and the C'tan was too similar to the relationship between chaos and their followers. Under the new lore, the necrons hold a unique relationship in that they are the only race to have bested their own gods. Think of all the other races. Eldar gods are fractured and dying, yet they are still worshiped, the Chaos gods laugh at their followers, granting boon and burden at a whim, as millions toil in their name, Gork and Mork couldn't care less (or could they?), and the Emperor is the Emperor. It's refreshing to see each race takes a different approach to this relationship.

The Chaos Powers were actually weaker than the C'tan, because once the C'tan had completed the Great Warding, the Warp would have been disconnected from reality, destroying the Chaos Powers by cutting them off from their lifeblood. The C'tan were the mightiest beings in existence, so I simply find it just plain stupid that they could be defeated by mere mortals, which is why I like the oldcrons who were stripped of sentience so they couldn't rebel against the C'tan. And before you say anything, the Emperor isn't mortal.

Ancient, implacable evil led by beings from the birth of the universe? Oh yes.

Trans-xenos space egyptians/tomb kings in space? I don't think so.

Just because a race has a weapon or a technique capable of wiping out another race, doesn't mean they can go toe to toe with them. I've never seen it anywhere that the C'tan were individually more powerful than a chaos power.

And while yes, they were "mere mortals" they were also a race that had effectively finished science. They were advanced to the point of making Clarke's law their bread and butter, as well as having caught the c'tan at their weakest moment.

Though to bring out a slightly weaker argument, I find it even more stupid to say that the Nightbringer himself was there on the battlefield, which is what the old codex states, as opposed to a fraction of his power, which is the case with every other deific manifestation.

The Outsider and the Void Dragon are most likely still in one piece.

The Outsider is somewhere else and hasn't been with Necrons for a long time.


The Circumstances of the Void Dragon coming to earth suggest he was fleeing from something. Probably the Crons trying to shard him.

So he hides on earth and gets found by the Emperor. Emperor beats him up and they make a deal. Emperor hides Dragon on Mars, mankind gets Technology, and everyone's happy.

The Necron fleet that attempted to land on Mars were searching for the Void Dragon.

Grey Templar wrote:The Outsider and the Void Dragon are most likely still in one piece.

The Outsider is somewhere else and hasn't been with Necrons for a long time.


The Circumstances of the Void Dragon coming to earth suggest he was fleeing from something. Probably the Crons trying to shard him.

So he hides on earth and gets found by the Emperor. Emperor beats him up and they make a deal. Emperor hides Dragon on Mars, mankind gets Technology, and everyone's happy.

The Necron fleet that attempted to land on Mars were searching for the Void Dragon.

That makes sense. The Emperor and the Void Dragon have common goals here - the both have enemies in the form of Chaos and the Necrons, and they're more or less equals; the Dragon cannot defeat the Emperor, while the Emperor cannot destroy the Dragon.

1hadhq wrote:Its only "Void" Dragon in one source, before splintering him, tough.

Consider the writers to happy on splintering Gods. The Eldar, shards of Khaine. These demons, shards of their "Gods".
Now C'tan... so don't give them ideas of splintered Primarchs

Have them splinter Gork and Mork, the hive mind etc OtoH.....

At worst, we get shards of the Emperor.

If they wrote "The Hive Tyrants banded together and killed the hive mind and now rule the tyranids with the power of personality quirks." I'd probably quit the Tyranids right then and there.

Kain wrote:If they wrote "The Hive Tyrants banded together and killed the hive mind and now rule the tyranids with the power of personality quirks." I'd probably quit the Tyranids right then and there.

That idea is great, so many lols recieved, thank you very much

In a way the Hive Mind is splintered about. It is the collected conciousness of every Tyranid.

I personally believe that the Outsider is still around, chilling in the Dyson Sphere, going more and more mad.

It's a matter of time before the last "free" C'Tan will come back. He'll probably grab the Void Dragon, and they'll go stomp the gak out of the galaxy.

smUrfsrUs wrote:

Kain wrote:If they wrote "The Hive Tyrants banded together and killed the hive mind and now rule the tyranids with the power of personality quirks." I'd probably quit the Tyranids right then and there.

That idea is great, so many lols recieved, thank you very much

Oh don't thank me, I was merely paraphrasing. The original quote was "So the Hive Tyrants all up and killed the hive mind. Now this one is trying to rebuild his empire, this one's a brony, this one likes to collect things, and this one likes to wear women's clothing." Made by wits far greater than my own.

well from what i have seen the fluff on the Deciever and nightbringer hasnt changed.

So Urial unlocked the full Nightbringer not just a shard.

And the Deciever must still be kicking around as he goes and does as he pleases (inpersonating imperial officials to nom nom an assassin and having a bout of fisticuff with Cypher)

Plus Deciever could just go "awww you cought me... or did you Hof hof hof Troll lol lol" newcrons being trolled by Deciever sounds funny too

I have to say I find the idea of the Emperor, even back in the day was the equal to a full C'tan kinda laughable. The Codex even stats that some shards get to powerful to safly use and some could be combined. I would say the void dragon on mars is simply that, a shard that got out of hand. By the time it hit earth the Necrons had long ago went sleepy sleep. A shard from a now destoried tombworld, free of its masters makes way more sense then a full C'tan.

The Emperor was Powerful, he was not that damned powerful.

Hunterindarkness wrote:I have to say I find the idea of the Emperor, even back in the day was the equal to a full C'tan kinda laughable. The Codex even stats that some shards get to powerful to safly use and some could be combined. I would say the void dragon on mars is simply that, a shard that got out of hand. By the time it hit earth the Necrons had long ago went sleepy sleep. A shard from a now destoried tombworld, free of its masters makes way more sense then a full C'tan.

The Emperor was Powerful, he was not that damned powerful.

This. If anything I wish the new fluff would once and for all establish that he was, in comparison to other beings/psykers, just a very strong human. I'd even love if they finally came out and said that the whole 'immortality' and 'watching over humanity' was bullcrap, the emperor was just some old crazy scientist/psyker who projected on everyone the belief that he was a supernatual being....

A being that can be a threat to stars and fleets by themselves should never have to worry about some sword-waving dude.

Kovnik Obama wrote:

Hunterindarkness wrote:I have to say I find the idea of the Emperor, even back in the day was the equal to a full C'tan kinda laughable. The Codex even stats that some shards get to powerful to safly use and some could be combined. I would say the void dragon on mars is simply that, a shard that got out of hand. By the time it hit earth the Necrons had long ago went sleepy sleep. A shard from a now destoried tombworld, free of its masters makes way more sense then a full C'tan.

The Emperor was Powerful, he was not that damned powerful.

This. If anything I wish the new fluff would once and for all establish that he was, in comparison to other beings/psykers, just a very strong human. I'd even love if they finally came out and said that the whole 'immortality' and 'watching over humanity' was bullcrap, the emperor was just some old crazy scientist/psyker who projected on everyone the belief that he was a supernatual being....

A being that can be a threat to stars and fleets by themselves should never have to worry about some sword-waving dude.

Oh boy, you just went and opened up a huge can of worms. This is not going to end well. Welp.