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Meh, I still think the act was fitting, given the circumstances. This is 40k, Imperial organisations "betray" each other all the time. The GK's don't have much of a moral problem slaughtering Sisters just like the Sisters don't have much of a moral problem slaughtering Marines.
In fact, I thought it was interesting that the GKs needed the Sisters' purity to protect themselves, insinuating that the Sisters are more pure and less corruptible.
Draigo on the other hand ...

As for Tadashi's statement concerning the sex symbols, he does have a point, though I would use a different wording. It's not so much that some aspects of the faction are sexualized in the eyes of some people that is the problem - this happens all the time, is likely intended by their designers, and goes for many of the male armies as well - it's that some people seemingly don't see them as anything more. Which mirror's an issue of society in much the same way as idiotic/unfunny sandwich and/or kitchen "jokes" do. So let's just try to make this world a better place, shall we?

This might be a topic better suited for another thread, though, if it warrants further discussion.

Kroothawk wrote:Seems, my statement was misunderstood:
Sororitas would call Grey Knights traitors, heretics, Khorne worshippers, kinslayers and things not appropriate for a family friendly forum . And they know Grey Knights, because they once met.

If the Grey Knights books (specifically Grey Knights) are anything to go by, Sororitas usually don't know much about GKs and can be fairly easily convinced that they are CSM. Those that do seem to be high enough rank to understand the necessities of war and don't let it color their niceties.

DoW

I had always assumed that the reason why many people are only interested in the 'female" part of the SoB is because that's the only thing about them that's unique at all. They're zealots which isn't exactly unique (Templars, Inquisitors, Grey Knights, DkoK, etc), they're not kickass enough to be Space Marines but they're not fodder enough to be like the Guard.

So they're weaker Space Marines with similar levels of spiritual zealotry. What's the one thing they have that sets them apart from all the other Imperial factions? Boobs. Unfortunately.

I blame GW personally. They had the opportunity to really make something interesting with the SoB. Instead they settled for space nuns, which are basically just space knights with female parts. Le sigh.

Tadashi wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:You have my sympathies.

If you're trolling, die.

If you're serious: thanks.

You take this game far too seriously.

I'm pretty sure Tadashi has actually stated on this forum that the fact that real life on Earth isn't more similar to how living on an Imperial world is 40K would be like depresses him.

BlaxicanX wrote:I had always assumed that the reason why many people are only interested in the 'female" part of the SoB is because that's the only thing about them that's unique at all. They're zealots which isn't exactly unique (Templars, Inquisitors, Grey Knights, DkoK, etc), they're not kickass enough to be Space Marines but they're not fodder enough to be like the Guard.

There's a few very important points missing from this assessment, though. No Marine Chapter is as zealous and fanatical as the Sisters - which becomes evident when you consider their unique faith-powered abilities, though I think that their very style (visuals, organisation, operations) strengthen the image even more. Amongst Inquisitors, you may find some that get close in their zeal, but it seems they would be fairly uncommon as Inquisitors, in spite of the monicker, actually tend to be quite secular and adaptive rather than letting themselves be confined by the narrow borders that come with adherence to the Imperial Cult. On top of this, the Sisters' high level of indoctrination, their elite training, and the Marine-grade equipment they operate with allow them to be almost as "kickass" as Marines without actually having to rely on transhuman genetic manipulation. If the Guard is hailed for doing its job whilst being "only human", then the Sisters take it one step further.

I think GW did a pretty good job in establishing these points. Unfortunately, half the material is somewhat hard to come by these days and very few people bother to research it. So people, including certain authors of licensed products, tend to oversimplify their unique attributes, and in some cases sexism (opposing the concept of a "woman warrior") may warp perception even further. That GW has copied some aspects of the Sororitas onto some Marine Chapters over the years certainly does not help the differentiation, but I maintain that all current armies of the franchise have distinguished features, and "boobs" certainly isn't the only one setting the Sisterhood apart.

Lynata wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:I had always assumed that the reason why many people are only interested in the 'female" part of the SoB is because that's the only thing about them that's unique at all. They're zealots which isn't exactly unique (Templars, Inquisitors, Grey Knights, DkoK, etc), they're not kickass enough to be Space Marines but they're not fodder enough to be like the Guard.

There's a few very important points missing from this assessment, though. No Marine Chapter is as zealous and fanatical as the Sisters - which becomes evident when you consider their unique faith-powered abilities, though I think that their very style (visuals, organisation, operations) strengthen the image even more. Amongst Inquisitors, you may find some that get close in their zeal, but it seems they would be fairly uncommon as Inquisitors, in spite of the monicker, actually tend to be quite secular and adaptive rather than letting themselves be confined by the narrow borders that come with adherence to the Imperial Cult.

"More fanatic" isn't a unique trait, however. If you have a team of three super heroes, and two of them have "super strength" as their power, the third guy's superpower isn't unique just because his super strength is stronger than the other two. Super-strength is still super strength. In a similar vein, as a member of a faction (the Imperium as a whole) who's entire moniker is "religious fanatics", having your "super trait" be "mega-fanaticism" isn't unique. Especially when the fluff doesn't even support that characteristic (there is nothing in the fluff that supports the idea that the SoB are the most fanatic Imperial faction, despite the fact that the codex pretty much says it is. Not when we routinely see Inquisitors condemn entire systems to destruction because they thought they smelled chaos taint on someone, or Commisars running head-first into destruction screaming litanies to the Emperor along the way, or just Space Marines in the fluff in general. There is no SoB character who measures up to fools like Draigo on the hopelessly faithful scale, for instance, and the Space Wolves have done a good job of winning the title for most likely to slaughter an entire world for no reason).

On top of this, the Sisters' high level of indoctrination, their elite training, and the Marine-grade equipment they operate with allow them to be almost as "kickass" as Marines without actually having to rely on transhuman genetic manipulation. If the Guard is hailed for doing its job whilst being "only human", then the Sisters take it one step further.

You're contradicting yourself here. The fact that they receive all the best equipment and the Marine-level indoctronization is proof that they aren't better at filling the role of the "only human" defenders of the Imperium. Which just proves my own point. They're not human enough to be Gaurdsmen due to their training, brainwashing and armaments, but they're aren't strong enough to be Space Marines.

I think GW did a pretty good job in establishing these points. Unfortunately, half the material is somewhat hard to come by these days and very few people bother to research it. So people, including certain authors of licensed products, tend to oversimplify their unique attributes, and in some cases sexism (opposing the concept of a "woman warrior") may warp perception even further.

If anything, the current iteration of SoB is the most sexist thing in 40K. There is nothing empowering for women about female characters who have suppressed emotions and are essentially rabid warrior-slaves of the Ellesiarchy that have no individuality. Female guardsmen are a better example of female empowerment than the SoB are because they can show female traits while still being competent. The SoB on the other push the idea (though this is probably unintentional on the writers' parts) that in order to be a badass female character you have to ignore the traits that make you a female in the first place.

For example, I always think it's hilariously stupid that no one cares about male characters like Gaunt running around with no shirt on killing everything in sight, yet if a female character were to do that, the entire world goes up in an uproar. Can you say "discrimination"?

BlaxicanX wrote:"More fanatic" isn't a unique trait, however. If you have a team of three super heroes, and two of them have "super strength" as their power, the third guy's superpower isn't unique just because his super strength is stronger than the other two.

This logic negates any and all unique traits of all factions throughout the Imperium, though. Marines are just "more strong" than Catachans, etc. 40k is a setting of extremes where just about any trait is comparatively widespread, so it does come down to variances in expression, as well as combination.

BlaxicanX wrote:Especially when the fluff doesn't even support that characteristic (there is nothing in the fluff that supports the idea that the SoB are the most fanatic Imperial faction, despite the fact that the codex pretty much says it is.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

The Sisters' standing out as the most fanatical and zealous faction has always been a staple of 40k, expressed throughout Codices, the Core Rulebook, GWs website and numerous publications of White Dwarf - I'm genuinely surprised that anyone is disputing this.

BlaxicanX wrote:Not when we routinely see Inquisitors condemn entire systems to destruction because they thought they smelled chaos taint on someone, or Commisars running head-first into destruction screaming litanies to the Emperor along the way, or just Space Marines in the fluff in general.

The Sororitas live in a "regime of constant hardship, deprivation and arduous work". Commissars don't, at least not to this extreme degree. The Marines with their 15 minutes spare time per day may get close to it, but I don't think even they are this devoted to ridiculously masochistic rituals steeped in a fervent belief in "the purpose of life being to suffer". I also think there is a drastic thematic difference between fanatism in general and religious fanatism, though they may all express themselves in a somewhat similar manner. The latter is usually regarded as more tragic, however, unless you have a setting where there actually are real gods giving sense to the religious zeal. In 40k, however, the Marines' fanatism is, I think, merely regarded as a productive focus, whereas the Sisters may easily seem misguided. Thus I think the Astartes having chosen to remain apart from the Imperial religion is a fairly important difference to consider.

But I do agree that it would have been better if GW would have chosen to let certain attributes that were copied over to certain Marine Chapters remain exclusive to the Sisters. Even though similarities remain small, it would have made them even more distinguishable.

BlaxicanX wrote:There is no SoB character who measures up to fools like Draigo on the hopelessly faithful scale, for instance

Pretty much every Repentia ever. In fact, I'm at a loss for what would make Draigo "more hopelessly faithful" than any Sororitas, considering their utter belief in their cause and the sometimes creepy willfulness of laying down their lifes or enduring the worst sorts of physical and psychological abuse for it.

BlaxicanX wrote:You're contradicting yourself here. The fact that they receive all the best equipment and the Marine-level indoctronization is proof that they aren't better at filling the role of the "only human" defenders of the Imperium. Which just proves my own point. They're not human enough to be Gaurdsmen due to their training, brainwashing and armaments, but they're aren't strong enough to be Space Marines.

There is no contradiction. The way I see it, technology simply isn't as decisive for the question of what makes people human, compared to excessive reconstructuring of the body to a point where the setting itself insinuates they are no longer human at all. Technology levels are different between IG forces as well, after all - as is the brainwashing.

BlaxicanX wrote:If anything, the current iteration of SoB is the most sexist thing in 40K. There is nothing empowering for women about female characters who have suppressed emotions and are essentially rabid warrior-slaves of the Ellesiarchy that have no individuality. Female guardsmen are a better example of female empowerment than the SoB are because they can show female traits while still being competent. The SoB on the other push the idea (though this is probably unintentional on the writers' parts) that in order to be a badass female character you have to ignore the traits that make you a female in the first place.

I disagree. When Marines are commonly regarded as "the crown of masculinity" amongst the playerbase, then the Sisters are the perfect example for women to be capable of similarly epic feats on the battlefield. This isn't about emotions, it's about a degree of equality in what kind of roles the genders can play in the setting. The range of characters, basically. The men can either be terrible "gods of war" in the Adeptus Astartes or brave underdogs retaining a degree of humanity in the Imperial Guard. Thanks to the Sisters, the same goes for women.

The very idea that "badass female characters" need to conform to some sort of emotional behavior when the same rules apparently do not apply to badass male characters is something that just sounds wrong. The truth is that badass characters can come in any form or shape of personality, at which point it gets down to individual preference which you prefer.

Also, Sororitas characters can indeed have individuality. Fanaticism has them conform to many strict rules which makes them naturally appear more uniform, but just like with real life hardcore nuns and monks and priests there will be variances. If you'd be interested in reading a novel, I would recommend Swallow's Faith & Fire or Hammer & Anvil, which focus on a number of Sororitas characters all with unique personalities, experiences and small but visible different modes of behaviour.

BlaxicanX wrote:For example, I always think it's hilariously stupid that no one cares about male characters like Gaunt running around with no shirt on killing everything in sight, yet if a female character were to do that, the entire world goes up in an uproar. Can you say "discrimination"?

Well, there I actually agree, but this is just something our generations have to live with - at least on most parts of the world. There was a time when women could run around barechested as men and even participate in warfare, but changes in society led to many centuries of suppression and the establishment of a new code of "decency". Depending on which country you're looking at, there have been advances made to revert this, but I assume it will take at least another couple centuries to get rid of this.

This reminds me, though - there is a rather popular P&P franchise in Germany (more popular than D&D) where there are countries that do not consider bare-chested females running around killing everything in sight to be strange at all.

Lynata wrote:This logic negates any and all unique traits of all factions throughout the Imperium, though. Marines are just "more strong" than Catachans,

Only if you strawman it by taking it to an extreme. The Space Marine gimmick that sets them apart from Catchans is not "they are stronger". Even if you took away a Space Marine's physical strength, it would still be vastly different from a Catachan by way of philosophy and pathos. The same is not true for SoB.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

No, it's not. I said that despite what the codex and other "official" fluff say about the SoB being the most fanatical Imperial faction, this is not shown. There has never been an instance where a SoB has done something that made us go "damn, even a Space Marine isn't that hardcore". The distinction is between implied ability and displayed feats. And the reason why we don't ever see it displayed is because there is nothing a SoB would do that a Space Marine wouldn't do in a heart-beat.

The Sororitas live in a "regime of constant hardship, deprivation and arduous work". Commissars don't, at least not to this extreme degree.

Commisars run fearlessly head-long in to enemy greater deamons armed with a cloth uniform and a sword. There are many showings within the Black Library and other stories to the point where the "fearless Commisar" is iconic and is practically a meme. SoB do not approach this level.

The Marines with their 15 minutes spare time per day may get close to it, but I don't think even they are this devoted to ridiculously masochistic rituals steeped in a fervent belief in "the purpose of life being to suffer".

Space Marines have the greatest showings of beating the odds in the entire 40K mythos, examples being the defense of Ultramar against the Tyranids, or the Grey Knights on Armageddon. The SoB do not. How many stories off the top of your head can you think of that show SoB fighting alone against unbeatable odds, never giving an inch? I can think of a few, and not much more than that.

I also think there is a drastic thematic difference between fanatism in general and religious fanatism, though they may all express themselves in a somewhat similar manner.

This is pedantic.

Pretty much every Repentia ever.

No. No Repentiaa has ever been shown to wander the warp for years jumping over every hurdle the Chaoss gods can throw at her, while simultaneously smacking down daemons in said warp and making the Gods look like incompetent goons. Draigo has, literally the greatest "act of faith" feats in the entire mythos. The SoB do not. Also, the pain glove says hi.

There is no contradiction. The way I see it, technology simply isn't as decisive for the question of what makes people human, compared to excessive reconstructuring of the body to a point where the setting itself insinuates they are no longer human at all. Technology levels are different between IG forces as well, after all - as is the brainwashing.

Well, you're certainly entitled to see it that way. It's incorrect though, regardless. A man armed with a stick fighting against a bear is a far greater example of human courage than a man in a tank fighting a bear.

I disagree. When Marines are commonly regarded as "the crown of masculinity" amongst the playerbase, then the Sisters are the perfect example for women to be capable of similarly epic feats on the battlefield.

They aren't, because the only thing "feminine" about SoB are their body parts. There is not a single metapyhical or symbolic aspect of SoB that could be considered "feminine". Look up a character like Ellen Ripley for an example of a character who empowers women and symbolize female tenacity.

The very idea that "badass female characters" need to conform to some sort of emotional behavior when the same rules apparently do not apply to badass male characters is something that just sounds wrong.

Exactly what I said. Hence why it's a shame that the SoB are all suppressed space nuns.

Also, Sororitas characters can indeed have individuality. Fanaticism has them conform to many strict rules which makes them naturally appear more uniform, but just like with real life hardcore nuns and monks and priests there will be variances. If you'd be interested in reading a novel, I would recommend Swallow's Faith & Fire or Hammer & Anvil, which focus on a number of Sororitas characters all with unique personalities, experiences and small but visible different modes of behaviour.

I enjoyed both books. The only issue I had with them was that nothing was shown that distinguishes them from Space Marines.

Well, there I actually agree, but this is just something our generations have to live with - at least on most parts of the world. There was a time when women could run around barechested as men and even participate in warfare, but changes in society led to many centuries of suppression and the establishment of a new code of "decency". Depending on which country you're looking at, there have been advances made to revert this, but I assume it will take at least another couple centuries to get rid of this.

This reminds me, though - there is a rather popular P&P franchise in Germany (more popular than D&D) where there are countries that do not consider bare-chested females running around killing everything in sight to be strange at all.

I agree. The problem I have with the issue is that it's perfectly fine to glorify men as sex symbols, but if you do so to women it's apparently "wrong". Silly, imo. I like equality on all fronts.

BlaxicanX wrote:

Isn't that an oxymoron?

No, it's not. I said that despite what the codex and other "official" fluff says about the SoB being the mot fanatical Imperial faction, this is not shown. There has never been an instance where a SoB has done something that made us go "Damn, even a Space Marine isn't that hardcore". The distinction is between implied ability and displayed feats.

To be fair there is far less material covering the SoB than the marines and even less where they seemed to be hyped up to an extreme. Even then the marines become less so when you realise they are essentially walking tanks.

There is a reason why the amount of SoB coverage is miniscule. It's the same reason you don't see any novels for the Xenos. The majority of writers have no idea of how to write them that both makes sense and also distinguishes them as "not just space marines with boobs".

I give Gav Thorpe credit for that. The Path of ____ novels are hit and miss, but he did a great job at fleshing out the Eldar pathos. Too bad Deliverance Lost was terrible.

Hence we end up with even more marine crap and having everything constantly compared to them. Mostly the comparisons seem to be aiming to make the marines appear better in that respect. Basically it just makes the setting appear dull.

Wonder what the Space Wolves have to say about the SoB...or vice versa

n0t_u wrote:Hence we end up with even more marine crap and having everything constantly compared to them. Mostly the comparisons seem to be aiming to make the marines appear better in that respect. Basically it just makes the setting appear dull.

Agreed. The Space Marine overexposure combined with the authors' fetishes for making them the "everyman" soldier (as tactically brilliant as any IG commander! As mechanically brilliant as any Mechanicus priest! As fanatical as any Sororitas! Who needs an Ordo Malleus when you have the Grey Knights! etc) has made all the other Imperial factions just seem dull at worst, inefficient at best.

The only thing that keeps the Space Marine spank in check is their lack of numbers.

BlaxicanX wrote:Only if you strawman it by taking it to an extreme. The Space Marine gimmick that sets them apart from Catchans is not "they are stronger". Even if you took away a Space Marine's physical strength, it would still be vastly different from a Catachan by way of philosophy and pathos. The same is not true for SoB.

Of course it is. Hell, even "Marine equipment but Guard bodies" is already enough to make them unique, for there is no other organisation in the entire Imperium sporting such armies. In addition to this, the Sisters' philosophy and pathos is as different to the Marines as is the Marines' to the Catachans'.

BlaxicanX wrote:I said that despite what the codex and other "official" fluff say about the SoB being the most fanatical Imperial faction, this is not shown. There has never been an instance where a SoB has done something that made us go "damn, even a Space Marine isn't that hardcore".

Then you've simply not read all the stuff there is. Do you know the short story with the barbed pen from the 3E rulebook, for example?

BlaxicanX wrote:Commisars run fearlessly head-long in to enemy greater deamons armed with a cloth uniform and a sword. There are many showings within the Black Library and other stories to the point where the "fearless Commisar" is iconic and is practically a meme. SoB do not approach this level.

Of course they do, and not just the Repentia. I was referring to the characters' behavior off the battlefield, however. Basically, what they do when not deployed on some campaign.

BlaxicanX wrote:Space Marines have the greatest showings of beating the odds in the entire 40K mythos, examples being the defense of Ultramar against the Tyranids, or the Grey Knights on Armageddon. The SoB do not. How many stories off the top of your head can you think of that show SoB fighting alone against unbeatable odds, never giving an inch? I can think of a few, and not much more than that.

Which is what ultimately makes them more tragic and realistic. With the Sisters, it's less about beating any and all opposition into a pulp (which the Marines seem to have an exclusive right to, teetering on marysueism depending on the Chapter you're looking at) but rather about sacrifice and about not giving up. That doesn't mean they don't have their epic victories, though. Canoness Praxedes single-handedly bashing a Tyranid Hive Tyrant's head in with her power maul? Badass.

BlaxicanX wrote:This is pedantic.

Maybe, but it still is a major thematic difference for me. If I want to play fanatical crusaders, I just wouldn't go to a Marine Chapter but pick the Sisters, because they have a religion they are devoting their life to. The Marines do it "for honour", which may appeal to many people as well, but it still is a difference.

And if you still think it's pedantic, it is no more pedantic than claiming that the Sisters fanatism is negated as a trait because Marines have some sort of fanatism as well.

BlaxicanX wrote:No. No Repentiaa has ever been shown to wander the warp for years jumping over every hurdle the Chaoss gods can throw at her, while simultaneously smacking down daemons in said warp and making the Gods look like incompetent goons.

How does it challenge one's faith if one has no problem smacking down Chaos gods left and right? Also, time is perceived differently in the warp. We literally do not know whether it bothers Draigo at all.

BlaxicanX wrote:Also, the pain glove says hi.

The thing is, from what I have read, Marines don't have as much of a "problem" with pain as normal humans do, which is why it takes considerably more to actually hurt them (to a point where they're genuinely bothered). Normal human females are more sensitive than genetically enhanced superhumans recruited from feral world barbarian stock, yet torture (or rather "purifying castigation of the flesh") is an everyday thing in their convents.

BlaxicanX wrote:Well, you're certainly entitled to see it that way. It's incorrect though, regardless. A man armed with a stick fighting against a bear is a far greater example of human courage than a man in a tank fighting a bear.

No argument there. Yet a woman in power armour fighting a demon is also a far greater example of human courage than a superhuman in powered armour fighting a demon.

BlaxicanX wrote:They aren't, because the only thing "feminine" about SoB are their body parts. There is not a single metapyhical or symbolic aspect of SoB that could be considered "feminine".

Which is exactly my point. The Sisters serve to challenge some people's understanding of what "femininity" might mean. Because maybe the currently propagated form of femininity has been influenced by 1.000 years of sexist oppression, and that this femininity does not appeal to everyone.

BlaxicanX wrote:Exactly what I said. Hence why it's a shame that the SoB are all suppressed space nuns.

Here I don't understand the point you were trying to make, sorry.

BlaxicanX wrote:I enjoyed both books. The only issue I had with them was that nothing was shown that distinguishes them from Space Marines.

Uh ... well, seems to be a question of personal perception, then.

BlaxicanX wrote:I agree. The problem I have with the issue is that it's perfectly fine to glorify men as sex symbols, but if you do so to women it's apparently "wrong". Silly, imo. I like equality on all fronts.

Yup. All I'm saying is that there should be a balance. It's wrong to see Sisters just as sex symbols because of boobs, just as it would be wrong to see Marines just as sex symbols because of abs. I do not think there should be a problem with having certain fantasies about them, but at the same time one should respect what they are actually all about rather than belittling their capabilities and achievements.

Few thoughts:

I would certainly agree about the fanatical nature of the SOB - although I am not sure that the newer fluff about the Black Templars has brought them into a similar place - although one could argue their strength seems to come equally from hatred rather than Faith I guess? They do seem to be much more centered round their Faith and the "Endless Crusade" They are certainly fanatical Crusaders as much as the Sisterhood. Indeed the Order of the Bloody Rose and the Black Templars united in the Vinculus Crusade in 833.M41 (BT Codex p19)

Sexuality has always part fo the imagery for the SOB - which is unsurprising given the target audiance - there has always been an awful lot of high heeled boots, corsets etc and there is definately alot of self inflicted or recieved pain (purifying castigation of the flesh etc ) but then thats not that unusual in the devout in many religions - past or present............ However the better fluff does try to go beyond these fetishes......

I also don't know how much the Sisterhood sees itself as a Crusading Force as much as guardians of the Faith/Faithful - certainaly the non militant orders have little comparison with the Astartes - with perhaps only the Salamanders, Ultramarines (perhaps) seeing protection and guardianship as as important as killing the enemy............ James Swallows books were pretty good - and did touch on the interesting (to me at least) relationship between the Sisters of Battle and their other orders - its interesting that it did give the impression that some SOB did seem to consider themselves superior to their non militant Sisters?

I am really not keen on the revised GK fluff........at all....

I do think their depicition in BL novels is getting better - in Legion of the Damned they are shown as unflinching and (somewhat uncaring(*)) guardians of the Faith able to stand against the unnumbered enemy with the Astartes on a equal footing, respected as formidable warriors.

(*) I do think that, like the Astartes, many of the SOB, unlike their non militant sisters will often have difficulty in relating to the more human inhabitants of the Imperium....

Jihadin wrote:Wonder what the Space Wolves have to say about the SoB...or vice versa

I imagine the conversation would go thusly:

WOOF!

Down boy!

DoW

Refering to the three orders that accompany the Ecciasleywhatever that got burned down in Fenris space as they tried to inspect a 2nd time the Space Wolves "pagan" ways (Space Wolf codex)

Mr Morden wrote:there has always been an awful lot of high heeled boots, corsets etc

To be fair, the high heels exist solely in Blanchet's works, who - without trying to diminish his ability in committing grimdark visions of the far future onto paper - does seem to have an extreme tendency for this in any female character he's drawing. Everywhere else, including the miniatures, the Sororitas have combat boots with a deep-lugged soles, and personally I'd hope that this image will be retained in the future.
As for the corsets, I suppose one might say that they convey a sexual image, yet not any more sexualized than, say, the form-fitting cuirasses of Roman Centurions, which do exist in 40k as well. What matters is that they do make sense, which is the case given that they seem to serve as protection ("dust cover"?) for the underlying armour plates that we can see on some of the minis that lack the corset. Furthermore, going purely by shape, a metal type of "corset" was actually a fairly popular piece of medieval plate armour: http://www.medievallifestyle.com/image-files/bodyharness.gif

Mr Morden wrote:I do think their depicition in BL novels is getting better - in Legion of the Damned they are shown as unflinching and (somewhat uncaring(*)) guardians of the Faith able to stand against the unnumbered enemy with the Astartes on a equal footing, respected as formidable warriors.

I wouldn't say it is getting "better" - there is no uniform development in the licensed material, after all. Changes in perception are thus mere coincidence, based solely on the individual authors' personal preferences. There's bound to be ups and downs all the time.

Mr Morden wrote:I do think that, like the Astartes, many of the SOB, unlike their non militant sisters will often have difficulty in relating to the more human inhabitants of the Imperium....

Undoubtedly, their upbringing will have simply vested them with a much stricter set of doctrines to adhere to. Since I often like comparing the Schola Progenium to Nazi-German Napolas, I suppose the problems resulting out of this kind of education/indoctrination would be similar.

"[...] The training program took pupils to the limits of their physical endurance. War games conducted at these schools used live ammunition, at times resulting in deaths of pupils. Those who graduated from Order Castles expected to gain important positions in the Party. Both Ley and the Ordensjunkers, however, were disappointed with the reception graduates received, as few Gauleiters and other Party officials wanted them. Albert Speer explained why in that they apparently "knew nothing about practical life, while on the other hahd their arrogance and conceit about their own abilities was boundless." The Ordensjunkers thus instead of obtaining plum positions in the Party apparatus in the Reich were mostly drafted into the military, many joining the ranks of the Waffen-SS. Others were assigned to serve in the occupation regimes in the East."

Granted, one important difference might be that unlike the Napolas, the Sisterhood also cultivate a good deal of humility, which may serve to curb the arrogance of its members - yet I am certain it would not extinguish it entirely, and the problem that normal people outside Ecclesiarchal life are so different still exists. Yet we also know that they have apparently little problem adapting to duties such as pilgrim protection or leading hastly-armed militias inspired by rousing speeches of the Sisters Superior into battle. I suppose that this kind of compatibility only exists during a crisis, however, when both the normal people as well as the Sisters are united in resistance and can or rather are forced to focus on a greater problem.

"As we are all aware, the Order of the Argent Shroud are renowned for their mandate of regulating the activities of not just members of the Ecclesiarchy, but of other Imperial organisations they come into contact with as well. Whilst I appreciate their dedication and success at rooting out traitors and dissenters within our midst, the effect upon the general morale of any fighting arm during their investigations almost always depreciates as their purges continue. [...] Now that the Third Armageddon War has started in earnest, the Order of the Argent Shroud will be concentrating more upon defeating the Ork invaders than governing our own forces. In spite of the reputation that often precedes them in extended campaigns, the Order is a fine fighting organisation that will provide a solid back bone for the rest of our armies in the Fire Wastes."
-- from a communique of General Kurov to Commissar Yarrick, Third War of Armageddon

Jihadin wrote:Refering to the three orders that accompany the Ecciasleywhatever that got burned down in Fenris space as they tried to inspect a 2nd time the Space Wolves "pagan" ways (Space Wolf codex)

As far as I recall, these Orders were not exterminated but rather forced to retreat as their campaign dragged on for weeks without any tangible successes. Still, I am quite sure that the Sisterhood is not on best terms with the Space Wolves. Perhaps less because they crossed arms, but rather because the Wolves dared to kill a bunch of clerics - official emissaries of the Ecclesiarchy - in cold blood, and due to the tales of genetic mutation and heretic rituals in this Chapter. All of this is pretty much anathema to the Sororitas, so I doubt the Sisters have anything but scorn for them.

And yet there was a comic I think was called "Wolf and Sister" that had a SoB and a Space Wolves Member together.
http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2011/02/wolf-sister.html

Rather non canon to say the least but the artistic urge was there.

In the game "Space Marine", a Guardsmen Corporal says "Yes sir...er, that is my lord" and Captain Titus does not seem to mind.

It might also depend on the situation, say in a combat situation they might be called "Sister" or otherwise, but formally they might be called M'lady.

All though I doubt a Sisters Hospitaler (Spelling I know) would enjoy being put on such a high pedestal.

Zakiriel wrote:And yet there was a comic I think was called "Wolf and Sister" that had a SoB and a Space Wolves Member together.
http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2011/02/wolf-sister.html
Rather non canon to say the least but the artistic urge was there.