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Can't wait to see new firewarriors. Transport moves 12, disembark, dakka out to 30"
Hell, doubletapping out to 30" even without markerlights will be impressive.

MrMoustaffa wrote:I though it just allowed you to make 1 shot at up to 24" if you moved. If this is true though, FRFSRF just became slightly redundant for IG. If we dont move, it lets us shoot 2 shots up to 24", so the order would only help within 12" for a 3rd shot. Unless they decided to faq the order, getting us 3 shots if we don't move up to 24", and 4 per lasgun within in 12" (or just stay at 3) Which would make the IG combined squad (aka blob) one of the scariest infantry units at range ever Although I'm sure we won't see that, that'd be rediculous.

On the other hand, watching a single platoon put out more lasgun shots than most armies have models would be pretty friggin hilarious to watch, even if it'd take half an hour to resolve al the hits

Doesn't FRFSRF just give them an extra shot for lasguns? Doesn't seem like it needs an FAQ or explanation. Boosts them a lot by tripling their fire power at long ranges, but doesn't look like it needs any debate.

FRFSRF gives you three shots if you rapid fire iirc.
So you'd be able to do that standing still. Is a good buff to shooty, they'll need it when we consolidate into new combats

Oppressor wrote:

Amanax wrote:

Captain Avatar wrote:

Oppressor wrote:

Amanax wrote:Sadly, standard Eldar don't have a single rapid fire weapon in their codex.

Not sure if serious.

Tis true, Eldar do not have a single Rapid Fire weapon in their current codex.

Yup. Pure truth. Right now, it's not that big of a deal, but if the current rumor mill turns out to be correct (Such as any S being able to wound any T combined with improved rapidfire flexibility) it will really put more pressure on the Eldar codex. Wraith units move even further away from being viable...

But, as mentioned previously, other units will gain a much needed boost. Thousand Sons, Fire Warriors, Plasma Guns - all could use a boost. Hopefully, with the rest of the rule changes, (if even these make it) the changes won't be too much of a boost

Wow, I honestly did not know that! I always thought that shuriken catapults or whatever the basic weapon for non storm guardian squads was rapid fire. Guess we need more Eldar players in the area.

Yeah, for some reason its an assault weapon.

terranarc wrote:FRFSRF gives you three shots if you rapid fire iirc.
So you'd be able to do that standing still. Is a good buff to shooty, they'll need it when we consolidate into new combats

It's just one more shot per lasgun, so rapid fire is 3 shots, standing fire up to 24" is 2.

This change would basically increase the long ranged fire power of most troop units.

Brother SRM wrote:

terranarc wrote:FRFSRF gives you three shots if you rapid fire iirc.
So you'd be able to do that standing still. Is a good buff to shooty, they'll need it when we consolidate into new combats

It's just one more shot per lasgun, so rapid fire is 3 shots, standing fire up to 24" is 2.

I thought rumor said double tap up to 24" if you didn't move though. Or whatever max range is

wait, i might actually be able to use lasguns? sweeeet, i am waiting anxiously to see how rapid fire actually plays out

AegisGrimm wrote:Sure would make the battlefield extra crappy for my Eldar.............

It's pretty broken to me, but as it particularly helps make Space marines that much closer to their "movie" versions, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

Actually, it just brings the Space Marines back closer to their level of power in 2nd Edition, which, honestly, wasn't all that overwhelming then either.

The Space Marines are the least of your worries with this rule, lol. Tau, I Guard, those armies get a huge bonus from this. Suddenly the Firing Line doesn't have to be static to be effective anymore.

terranarc wrote:
I thought rumor said double tap up to 24" if you didn't move though. Or whatever max range is

I was just going by 5th ed rules, and how FRFSRF is now.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:Sure would make the battlefield extra crappy for my Eldar.............

It's pretty broken to me, but as it particularly helps make Space marines that much closer to their "movie" versions, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.

Actually, it just brings the Space Marines back closer to their level of power in 2nd Edition, which, honestly, wasn't all that overwhelming then either.

The Space Marines are the least of your worries with this rule, lol. Tau, I Guard, those armies get a huge bonus from this. Suddenly the Firing Line doesn't have to be static to be effective anymore.

muhahaha, maybe foot guard armies will start to show up, which would make me very happy

Seriously. I have a whole giant blob of 40K infantry that I bought in 2nd Edition when transports weren't so overwhelmingly . I could field a foot Guard list backed up by Leman Russ tanks right now with no effort.

Would be pretty sad to have put so much work into my Tall Scale Marines only to see them become irrelevant in a competitive setting, haha.

My poor poor tyranids : (

Great. My Orks would love this change :(

terranarc wrote:Can't wait to see new firewarriors. Transport moves 12, disembark, dakka out to 30"
Hell, doubletapping out to 30" even without markerlights will be impressive.

They still suck. BS3 Str5 makes them about as effective as pure boltermarines, which is quite bad.

KingDeath wrote:

terranarc wrote:Can't wait to see new firewarriors. Transport moves 12, disembark, dakka out to 30"
Hell, doubletapping out to 30" even without markerlights will be impressive.

They still suck. BS3 Str5 makes them about as effective as pure boltermarines, which is quite bad.

I disagree with that statement. Your bolter marines are not an albatross' around your neck weakening your entire army. They are a tool in your toolkit. Bolters are excellent for taking down large amount of low toughness opponents.

For example, in a game against DE this past weekend, I had a beast squad assault and wipe out my speed bump. I closed in with 3 different squads and boltered the beasts to death.

Giving them the ability to move 6" and single tap at 24" or double tap if standing still at 24" is quite decent against the correct targets.


On another note : Bikes!
Bike squads being able to shoot 4 PG shots and 1 MM shot at 24" while moving is very strong. Standing still and plucking off 6 PG shots and 1 MM shot per squad is extremely strong. While you might have a lot of 'GETS HOT' its a crazy amount of STR 7 AP2 firepower.

Space Wolves improve, especially if transports are nerfed.

Option 1 - Move 6" every turn, fire Bolter rounds until you get within 6" of the enemy, switch to Pistols, fire, assault.

Option 2 - Move 6" every turn until the pack is 12" away from enemy. Stay stationary and Rapid Fire two shots per gun. Counter Charge any unit that assaults into the pack.

Plasma Guns also get buffed to the point where perhaps they'll replace Meltaguns/CombiMeltas in many SW lists.

Black Templar bike squads, which can take 3 special weapons (3x Plasma Guns, thanks!) just got a little more attractive, despite their higher point costs...

Let's see Tyranids...nope not a single Rapid Fire weapon.

Orks...nope everything is either heavy or assault.

Chaos, this would make Rubric Marines unquestionably better than Noise marines with sonic blasters, they'd still suck though.

Brother SRM wrote:

terranarc wrote:
I thought rumor said double tap up to 24" if you didn't move though. Or whatever max range is

I was just going by 5th ed rules, and how FRFSRF is now.

IIRC FRFSRF gives you 2 shots at 24" per lasgun and 3 shots at 12". As in it specifically says that in the codex so you wouldn't be able to get 3 shots at 24"
Right?

purplefood wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

terranarc wrote:
I thought rumor said double tap up to 24" if you didn't move though. Or whatever max range is

I was just going by 5th ed rules, and how FRFSRF is now.

IIRC FRFSRF gives you 2 shots at 24" per lasgun and 3 shots at 12". As in it specifically says that in the codex so you wouldn't be able to get 3 shots at 24"
Right?

4 shots at 12'...

We can all hope that GW would never make lasguns that scary!

Add in the rumor that any strength can wound any toughness on a 6 and mass lasguns bringing down wraithlords and other monstrous creatures, IG just got a few more tools in their toolkit.

DarbNilbirts wrote:Add in the rumor that any strength can wound any toughness on a 6 and mass lasguns bringing down wraithlords and other monstrous creatures, IG just got a few more tools in their toolkit.

Okay time to throw out all my gargantuan creatures and those painstakingly painted Heirophants because they're now all useless relative to superheavy vehicles. Because if they now have to worry about grot muskets they're just going to die without accomplishing anything in apocalypse games.

One one hand, I do like this change.
On other hand, I sincerely hope that the "Relentless can always fire one more shot" is not true, because that means normal bolters are in fact superior to storm bolters for Terminators (3 shots at 24" compared to 2).
This change also means Bolters are just as good as storm nolters in vehicles and that twin-linked bolters are superior to storm bolters, which doesn't make any sense from fluff perspective.

Why not just make terminators relentless?

But I'm bummed out because if the "no more immune to all strength 4 points below the toughness" turns out to be true, all my biotitans are no longer even close to their worth in trygons or tfexes. Half the point of them was that they made your bolters useless!

Luide wrote:One one hand, I do like this change.
On other hand, I sincerely hope that the "Relentless can always fire one more shot" is not true, because that means normal bolters are in fact superior to storm bolters for Terminators (3 shots at 24" compared to 2).
This change also means Bolters are just as good as storm nolters in vehicles and that twin-linked bolters are superior to storm bolters, which doesn't make any sense from fluff perspective.

Kain wrote:Why not just make terminators relentless?

That, and a rumor has it that assault weapons give you +1 CC attack (though I must admit that makes no sense)... so 3 shot storm bolters and 3 PF attacks? as opposed to 3 shot bolters IF I don't move? um, still better. Even the twin linked chaos bolters on termies would still have them down an attack.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote:


On another note : Bikes!
Bike squads being able to shoot 4 PG shots and 1 MM shot at 24" while moving is very strong. Standing still and plucking off 6 PG shots and 1 MM shot per squad is extremely strong. While you might have a lot of 'GETS HOT' its a crazy amount of STR 7 AP2 firepower.

Beat you to it, but confused rage over flashlights drowned it out

Lobukia wrote:The land raider crusader and the Iron Clads just became nastier too (as did bikes). I've also seen a rumor that relentless adds an extra shot to Rapid Fire (that just made the afore mentioned units even nastier... and chaos terminators too).

This, along with all toughness being wounded on a 6 probably spells the death of the Eldar Codex. Footdar is no longer viable, Wraith units are no longer viable. With transports probably being nerfed, Mechdar won't be as scary either.

I have a feeling 6th edition won't be that fun :(

Marzillius wrote:This, along with all toughness being wounded on a 6 probably spells the death of the Eldar Codex. Footdar is no longer viable, Wraith units are no longer viable. With transports probably being nerfed, Mechdar won't be as scary either.

I have a feeling 6th edition won't be that fun :(

Let us share in weeping.

Kain wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

terranarc wrote:
I thought rumor said double tap up to 24" if you didn't move though. Or whatever max range is

I was just going by 5th ed rules, and how FRFSRF is now.

IIRC FRFSRF gives you 2 shots at 24" per lasgun and 3 shots at 12". As in it specifically says that in the codex so you wouldn't be able to get 3 shots at 24"
Right?

4 shots at 12'...

We can all hope that GW would never make lasguns that scary!

They can't...
I'm looking at the IG codex now and it says this 'If the order is successfully issued, the ordered units immediately shoots at any visible target. If the enemy is up to 12" away, models firing lasguns fire three shots rather than just two. If the unit did not move in its Movement phase they fire two shots with their lasguns at an enemy up to 24" away, instead of just one.'
This means that even if you do get to Rapid Fire to your maximum range (Thereby getting 2 shots at 24" without FRFSRF) you wouldn't gain anything from FRFSRF since the order simply lets you fire 2 shots at 24" not an extra shot at 24"...
Unless the wording was changed in a errata or clarified in an FAQ.
EDIT: Just looked, it hasn't.

Though it doesn't mean it won't come the release (Though, how painful would it be if they did change it to just grant a static +1 shot to your normal?)