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Ahtman wrote:

It may be that he was on the most wanted lists becuase he abonded his post in Electronic Security, which I imagine is at least requires a Security Clearance, if not TS.

That would make sense, its a way of putting out a general search for him without being too obvious about it.

People may have been thinking: has he defected, or worse has he been abducted for interrogation? Both would involve major cold war security concerns at a level much higher than normally the case for a junior spod deciding not to turn up for work anymore. Allowing for the timing and last known location the case could well have absorbed a fair few man hours of Military Intelligences time.

Ahtman wrote:

AustonT wrote: He's AWOL unless the AF pushes it and AWOL is basically the bottom rung of the ladder, they don't care enough to look for you; they probably wont extradite you either. The only AWOLs they chase are KAWOLs because they may have confidential information.

The definitions I found, including in the USCMJ defined desertion as AWOL with no intent to return the unit.

(a) Any member of the armed forces who—

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away therefrom permanently;

(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another one of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States Note: This provision has been held not to state a separate offense by the United States Court of Military Appeals in United States v. Huff, 7 U.S.C.M.A. 247, 22 C.M.R. 37 (1956), is guilty of desertion.

This seems to describe his actions. Or are you referring to the process? It is just AWOL until the suspect is in custody and then the determination is made?

Air Force Special Investigations page on David Hemler

It may be that he was on the most wanted lists because he abandoned his post in Electronic Security, which I imagine is at least requires a Security Clearance, if not TS.

Similar and the same are not equal. As I said he is AWOL until the AF pushes him into desertion. You need to read past the definition and into elements. The bar is set much higher for desertion, it requires more time and effort to pursue. AWOL is an included lesser offense think like when someone gets arrested for assault with a deadly weapon how they tack on brandishing and other things. Generally speaking most long term AWOLs are desertion, but most people just plead guilty to an ART86 and walk off light so JAG doesn't have to spend it's time or money prosecuting. I hadn't actually bothered to look at who the hubbub was about so I followed your link; being as he has already been charged with desertion they may actually pursue him beyond what would be considered normal; so my initial statement in the quote would be false, the AF already pushed it to desertion when they opened a file on him at OSI. Given OSI's involvement he will probably be detained and brought to the US and face charges.

AustonT wrote:Similar and the same are not equal.

Since it was never claimed that they were equal I have to assume you just decided to point out something obvious to everyone to get some extra typing practice in.

AustonT wrote:As I said he is AWOL until the AF pushes him into desertion. You need to read past the definition and into elements.

You are, in fact, speaking to process, which I also brought up, and asked you if you were referring to.

Please review Rule Number One.

Thanks,

Manchu

So we're all ok with the cat ninjas then? I'll draft up a cat ninja contract.

You want to take down Liechtenstein you call Team Wienie. You want a sudden and quiet target acquisition you call the cat ninjas.

Ahtman wrote:

Pacific wrote:Really does it matter what happens to him now?

Not from an emotional stand point, but merely from an intellectual one. It just seemed odd to that he just expected something akin to someone waving their finger at him saying not to do that again and then a big hug and a welcome home. If you get caught deserting within a short period the penalties are fairly harsh, but if you never get caught then it is a shrug? I don't think we really need to actively pursue him, but if he does come back to the US he should have to face it in some capacity.

@Relapse: I couldn't find a documentary called "Jumping the Line", do you have a link? That might help give some perspective as it gives precedent for such a situation.

Crossing the Line, it's on Netflix...
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Crossing_the_Line/70059636?trkid=438403
The movie actually deals with three American defectors.
Really interesting, I enjoyed it a lot


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Wiki for the American defector who returned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Robert_Jenkins

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:A lot of posters here mistakenly think he is under US jurusdiction.

Absconding from the US military is a crime in the US, not Sweden.

First the US has to request extradition, then see what the Swedish authorities think.

The US has jurisidiction over its citizens at all times. There are a slew of laws to that effect.

Demand him back., If Sweden doesn't comply use it as a pretext to get out of NATO.

Then NATO gets out of Afghanistan, leaving you all alone

You know, Orlanth, you missed this part: "I very much doubt anything will happen here"

Stating possibilities isn't the same as stating certainties.

Back in the prehistoric days during the two weeks I had between Marine boot camp and infantry school, I had to guard a squad bay full of deserters.
It was actuually a far more mellow set up than I would have envisioned in that I sat at night in the squad bay, shooting the breeze with these guys as they lay in their racks.
During the day, football games would be set up for them as they awaited court martial and to be shown the door.
There was no real lock down as such, mainly just confinement to a certain area.
Guys that did blanket parties, on the other hand, did not fare as well.

That sounds quite interesting Relapse, what time was that, and why were they deserting?

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:A lot of posters here mistakenly think he is under US jurusdiction.

Absconding from the US military is a crime in the US, not Sweden.

First the US has to request extradition, then see what the Swedish authorities think.

The US has jurisidiction over its citizens at all times. There are a slew of laws to that effect.

Demand him back., If Sweden doesn't comply use it as a pretext to get out of NATO.

Then NATO gets out of Afghanistan, leaving you all alone

Except for Britain, we were already alone. Besides we're out soon too.

The coward should be arrested,

Barksdale wrote:The coward should be arrested,

Agreed. What would make him suddenly have an epiphany about being a pacifist on base?

Pacific wrote:That sounds quite interesting Relapse, what time was that, and why were they deserting?

That was back in 1983. There were various reasons like homesickness, missing wives and children, the too late realization that this was not where they wanted to be, etc. We had a recruit in my platoon who tried, in broad daylight with a PT field full of DI's and recruits, to climb the fence between the training base(MCRD) and the airport because he missed his wife and child

Shredsmore wrote:Agreed. What would make him suddenly have an epiphany about being a pacifist on base?

Apparently he joined up with what keeps being referred to as a 'pacifist church'.

He made the decision to flee after getting involved with a pacifist church and becoming disillusioned with the policies of then-President Ronald Reagan.

About every article had the same phrase, though none were specific in the name of the religious organization.

There were a few that had more bits from his original Swedish news interview, such as blaming the US for the state of the world and that originally he only meant to take a about a week off from the base.

Just a week eh? hhmmmm 30 days restriction 30 days extra duty possible 45 days each, reduction in rank, forfiture of pay and fined for missing 5 duty days. He got scared to go back to face that punishment.

Ahtman wrote:

Shredsmore wrote:Agreed. What would make him suddenly have an epiphany about being a pacifist on base?

Apparently he joined up with what keeps being referred to as a 'pacifist church'.

Actually under those circumstances he should have declared his change of faith. His CO wouldn't be happy, but he could have been discharged quickly and lawfully.

The US is quite open minded on this issue, soldeirs have been known to change their religion, its not an unknown occurance and as he wasn't in a warzone at the time cowardice wouldn't formally enter the picture. He would get a neutral discharge, not a dishonourable one, or if he wished he could complete the present tour and leave as a veteran.

Silly man. there was a reasonable way out for him.


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Frazzled wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Then NATO gets out of Afghanistan, leaving you all alone

Except for Britain, we were already alone. Besides we're out soon too.

Not true, Germans are there, as are Canadians AFAIK.

Frazzled wrote:

Except for Britain, we were already alone. Besides we're out soon too.

Aside from Poles, Romanians, Australians, Danes, French, Germans, Estonians, Hungarians.......

ISAF currently has troops from 47 differnt countries, including Luxemberg and Tonga.

Canadians should be out of Afghanistan...they took the Hockey rink in Kandahar with them...and Tim Hortons to....