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nosferatu1001 wrote:TLOS was in 3rd and 4th.

People incorrectly used levels and area terrain in 4th, but the actual rules were still based around TLOS 90% of the time

Yeah, I was just going to say that!

I love it when people harp on TLOS like it is some new invention dropped on 40K in 5th edition. Every single edition of the game used TLOS for most circumstances. So while 4th edition did bring the abstract size categories into the mix, the same 'issues' with TLOS that you have in 5th edition also existed in 4th edition as well.

In addition, saying that 'static models' aren't suitable for TLOS is backwards. EVERY OTHER type of game is unsuitable for TLOS because they don't have fully 3D terrain and fully 3D models. Tabletop wargaming is the one and only type of non-video game that can actually utilize TLOS as you're playing on 3D terrain with 3D models, so IMHO it is a damn crazy shame not to take advantage of that fact and instead utilize an abstract system that essentially means you could play the game on a 2D surface using labeled tokens instead of models.

yakface wrote:In addition, saying that 'static models' aren't suitable for TLOS is backwards. EVERY OTHER type of game is unsuitable for TLOS because they don't have fully 3D terrain and fully 3D models. Tabletop wargaming is the one and only type of non-video game that can actually utilize TLOS as you're playing on 3D terrain with 3D models, so IMHO it is a damn crazy shame not to take advantage of that fact and instead utilize an abstract system that essentially means you could play the game on a 2D surface using labeled tokens instead of models.

Of course, just imagine how much we could save this way...no more modeling for advantage, no more what you see is what you get, no more spending large sums of money to buy a single model...

Happyjew wrote:
Of course, just imagine how much we could save this way...no more modeling for advantage, no more what you see is what you get, no more spending large sums of money to buy a single model...

They could also just ban converted models, but either scenario (no conversions or essentially just a pure 2D game with size classifications) IMHO ruins the whole benefit of 3D miniatures on a 3D terrain table.

For my money, I'll take the bad with the good. I like seeing conversions and I like having my 3D models interact with the 3D terrain so I'll take the odd modeling for advantage or TLOS issue any day of the week over either of the other two choices.