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Ub3rb3n wrote:So my consensus is since it says "a model equipped with a nemesis greatsword re-rolls to hit, to wound and armor penetration in close comabt" that if I equip a dreadknight with it and he has a DCWW and i use the DCWW i can do all that it says i can do when i equip a model with a greatsword.

I wasnt too sure if i agreed with it, but then I looked through the tyranid codex today and it is the same example as the great sword with the poison attacks its a weapon but causes all attacks to poison

Bad example. Tyranids have a rule specifically allowing all biomorphs to function.

rigeld2 wrote:The DCCW no longer limits the double strength to Dreadnaughts. And iirc the GK FAQ that clarified the limitation was removed.

Though irrelivant, the FAQ for 5th said that the DK in fact did not gain bonuses as it was not a walker. Not that it matters anymore

I can't see a consensus :(

gotta laugh.

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:The DCCW no longer limits the double strength to Dreadnaughts. And iirc the GK FAQ that clarified the limitation was removed.

Though irrelivant, the FAQ for 5th said that the DK in fact did not gain bonuses as it was not a walker. Not that it matters anymore

Yup and once the FAQ question was removed people figured it out pretty quick

Ub3rb3n wrote:So my consensus is since it says "a model equipped with a nemesis greatsword re-rolls to hit, to wound and armor penetration in close comabt" that if I equip a dreadknight with it and he has a DCWW and i use the DCWW i can do all that it says i can do when i equip a model with a greatsword.

I wasnt too sure if i agreed with it, but then I looked through the tyranid codex today and it is the same example as the great sword with the poison attacks its a weapon but causes all attacks to poison

I don't know if a concensus has been reached yet per say, but that is certainly how i believe it works, yes.

Has a consensus been made for this because i say yes as well

I really don't understand how this can be argued against.

"A model with a Nemesis Greatsword re-rolls failed To Hit, To Wound and armour penetration rolls in close combat".

It says "a model with", as in having. It never states that the weapon must be used (i.e wielded in close combat) to gain these benefits.

It applies to all his CC attacks, even from Doomfists.

Iranna.

You don't get the benefits for using multiple weapons because of the rules on p.51 and that every similarly worded weapon doesn't blanket grant its abilities.

Heh, it's like people don't even read the posts preceeding theirs before adding their comments? At the risk of sounding aggrieved, (and redundant): No one is saying that you can use both weapons in combat.

What I and others 'have' been indicating is that the sword as written provides the model with the ability to re-roll various close combat attacks.

If you'd like to debate that please do me a solid and focus your rebuttal on that point specifically; rather than reiterating exactly the same thing as has already been stated and refuted in this thread.

Yeah see, here's the way this argument goes.

1. Hey does the Greatsword grant rerolls while you're not using it?
2. No, the rules say you get the special abilities of one weapon at a time, and other weapons written up like the Greatsword confirm this.
3. What I and others 'have' been indicating is that the sword as written provides the model with the ability to re-roll various close combat attacks.

Repeat 2 and 3 ad infinium until FAQ

EDIT: Oh, and just being petty, but I love how some are saying there's a consensus that it works. When this thread appears to be made up of those with a vested interest in it working and everyone else saying NO.

Is that so?

1. Yup! as indicated in the GK codex the ability is given to the model itself rather than something to do with striking things with the greatsword.
2. It'd help immensely if you didn't paraphrase; the rules in question 'actually' say: "...If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons...."
3. Yep, that is what it does alright, perhaps you'd care to refute that, hopefully by citing other weapons or situations with similar precident if you cannot find a specific rule?

I'd suggest not being petty; instead feel free to respond to my points.

Yeah, but the effect the Greatsword gives is worded passivly. It simply transfers to the model equipped with the sword. It doesn't say "a model wielding a Nemisis Greatsword", which would put in the restriction that you MUST use it to gain the benifit.

Thusly, the Sword's abilities benifit the Doomfist when said weapon is used.

Djin Blade and Animus Vitae off the top of my head. Their abilites only refer to their "bearer", however according to FAQs they need to be used in combat for their abilities.


Your argument necessitates that GW means different things when they say "weilder, bearer, or equipped with". Everytime it gets pushed to question we discover "he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons" means just that.

I know GW is liable to ignore any sort of precedent or even what the rules currently say, but if WE do that, there's no point to this forum

Can you quote the relevant rules-text for either of those? or failing that the note in the FAQ which indicates they work the way you describe?

And again, please try and refrain from paraphasing rules, it serves more to cloud the point than educate about it.
The rule for the Greatsword states: "...A model with a Nemesis Greatsword re-rolls..." etc. (note: it does not say 'bearing', 'weilding', or 'equipped')

Djin blade: a Djin blade is a power weapon. Furthermore, the bearer makes two bonus attacks every round of combat - roll these separately, if any double is rolled for these two attacks when rolling to hit, the blade rebels against its wielder - the two attacks automatically hit the bearer

Animus Vitae: The Animus Vitae is a special close combat weapon. If the bearer kills one or more enemy models in a round of combat (including vehicles), he may take a Leadership test at the end of the round. If he passes the test, then he immediately gains a pain token.

DE FAQ p.4: If a model is armed with a Djin Blade and another special close combat weapon, and he chooses not to attack with the Djin Blade, does he still get the bonus attacks?
A. No

The Dreadknight is "With" a Greatsword. Congratulations on your synonym. There's no rule that excepts if from the basic rules

Crevab wrote:Djin blade: a Djin blade is a power weapon. Furthermore, the bearer makes two bonus attacks every round of combat - roll these separately, if any double is rolled for these two attacks when rolling to hit, the blade rebels against its wielder - the two attacks automatically hit the bearer

Animus Vitae: The Animus Vitae is a special close combat weapon. If the bearer kills one or more enemy models in a round of combat (including vehicles), he may take a Leadership test at the end of the round. If he passes the test, then he immediately gains a pain token.

DE FAQ p.4: If a model is armed with a Djin Blade and another special close combat weapon, and he chooses not to attack with the Djin Blade, does he still get the bonus attacks?
A. No

The Dreadknight is "With" a Greatsword. Congratulations on your synonym. There's no rule that excepts if from the basic rules

Agreed. That's how YMDC works. If we can't find RAW, we look at rulings that show how the design team views extremely similar rules. We have that here.

Well, one could certainly argue that since the Greatsword does not currently have a FAQ update (unlike the Djin Blade) it 'should' be treated differently. Also the Djin blade specifically refers to the use of the weapon itself granting the bonus attacks (be they against the target or the model bearing it); the rules-text for the Greatsword does not do that either.

Does the Animus Vitae also have an FAQ update that indicates it only works if it (the weapon itself) is being used in close combat?

Yeah, while the Djiin blade FAQ may show GWs intent, it does not show the RAW and has no bearing on the Greatsword implimentation.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, while the Djiin blade FAQ may show GWs intent, it does not show the RAW and has no bearing on the Greatsword implimentation.

Indeed.

It can also be argued that GW's intent was to allow ALL the model's attacks to gain the benefits:

"Nemesis Force Halberd: ... In addition, the wielder of a Nemesis halberd strikes at +2 Initiative,"

Here, the weapon specifically states that it must be Wielded in order to gain the benefits.

Once again:

"Nemesis Warding Stave: ... A model Wielding a Nemesis warding stave has a 2+ invulnerable save against wounds caused in close combat."

The model must Wield the weapon in order to gain the benefits.

Finally:

"Nemesis Falchions: ... The wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions has +1 Attack".

In all of these examples, GW has explicitly stated that the model must Wield (i.e use in close combat) these weapons in order to gain the benefits.

Notice:

"A model with a Nemesis greatsword re-rolls failed To Hit, To Wound and armour penetration rolls in close combat,"

Here, it is obvious that the word "wielding" has been omitted from the sentence and replaced with the word "with". Hence, it can be argued that this is a deliberate contrast to the precedence of "A model wielding..." found through out the entries under "Nemesis Force Weapons".

Iranna.

Well put.

Neorealist wrote:Well put.

Thank you, I'm not just a pretty face!

Iranna.

Iranna wrote:

Neorealist wrote:Well put.

Thank you, I'm not just a pretty face!

Iranna.

Winner!


The reason why the dark eldar got a FAQ for that weapon is to clarify they don't get the 2 bonus attacks. While for the great sword doesn't need clarification for it is clear what it is.