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I somehow doubt the intent of Grounding was to instantly kill the the FMC. Since it can now be assaulted, if that assault continues for a round, that FMC will be unable to move and, if still Swooping, killed since it can't move the minimum distance.

This seems like an unlikely rules interpretation.

No, it would simply choose to Glide instead in its own movement phase. It then can't move because its locked in combat. So it doesn't die.

Swooping is flying. Flying means you are in the air. If you are grounded you are not flying and there for are not swooping.

Now we are going to argue what point again? It doesn't say you no longer are swooping or diving.

Lets get this straight. If you were diving or swooping, Grounded doesn't change this? So tell me how you can be flying if you are grounded?

Also you are saying that a FMC can be grounded more than once in a single firing phase?

MJThurston wrote:Swooping is flying. Flying means you are in the air. If you are grounded you are not flying and there for are not swooping.

Fluff argument.

Lets get this straight. If you were diving or swooping, Grounded doesn't change this? So tell me how you can be flying if you are grounded?

Because fluff != rules.

Also you are saying that a FMC can be grounded more than once in a single firing phase?

Yes. This is a "bug" in the rules.

Grey Templar wrote:No, it would simply choose to Glide instead in its own movement phase. It then can't move because its locked in combat. So it doesn't die.

Well, the rules say it is free to resume normal movement on its next turn.
So, I would choose swooping, no longer be assault-able, and simply fly away from the combat.

True, you could do that too. See, it all makes sense.

Getting Grounded is a way of getting one free round of combat with the MC before it swoops away again, unless it decides to stay and fight you.

Grey Templar wrote:No, Grounded is not a state of movement. Its something that happens if the model gets hit, nothing more.

Find where it says a model that gets grounded is no longer Swooping. Find it.

It is neither swooping nor gliding - it is grounded. The rules explicitly state this.

MJ - you are making a basic logical fallacy. Just because A implies B does not mean B implies A

Currelty being grounded does not remove your Swooping status.

nosferatu1001 wrote:MJ - you are making a basic logical fallacy. Just because A implies B does not mean B implies A

Currelty being grounded does not remove your Swooping status.

It does, because it's Grounded. It's gone from being a Swooping Flying Monsterous Creature to being a Grounded Flying Monsterous Creature.
Read the rulebook folks.
The Grounded state is specifically spelled out in the book, there is no ambiguity here.

Testify wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, Grounded is not a state of movement. Its something that happens if the model gets hit, nothing more.

Find where it says a model that gets grounded is no longer Swooping. Find it.

It is neither swooping nor gliding - it is grounded. The rules explicitly state this.

What rule removes Swooping? Page/para?

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, Grounded is not a state of movement. Its something that happens if the model gets hit, nothing more.

Find where it says a model that gets grounded is no longer Swooping. Find it.

It is neither swooping nor gliding - it is grounded. The rules explicitly state this.

What rule removes Swooping? Page/para?

FMC page.
"If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground - it suffers a single Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A Grounded Monsterous Creature &cetra".
On the movement page it doesn't mention that after you've moved the model, the model is no longer where it was. You are employing the same logic.

Amen. Testify.

The rules do not say that you continue to swoop. And please lets not harp on the swoop side of this. What if you were diving? The rule lawyers want a snap shot safety net that is not there.

And you do not get to fly away on your turn. You are locked in combat and if you are not locked in combat, then you can move as normal. Not move as normal after you are assaulted and still locked.

Keep reading into rules and you will come up with crazy results.

FMC's have 2 modes: gliding and swooping.

Grounded never says it counts as gliding for shooting or assault purposes.

It only states you can no longer jink, and you can be assaulted.

They went out of their way to list the penalties when they could have just said grounded = gliding.

Grounded = still swooping but can be assaulted and not jink.

MJThurston wrote:And you do not get to fly away on your turn. You are locked in combat and if you are not locked in combat, then you can move as normal. Not move as normal after you are assaulted and still locked.

I agree. You should not be able to fly away. However, if you are still in swooping mode, yet locked in assault, weird things happen.

Or, since I can choose to swoop AND be locked in assault, maybe I can carry those models away with me and we can fight and fly at the same time.

I fully expect this to be FAQ'd that grounded = no longer swooping.

Testify wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, Grounded is not a state of movement. Its something that happens if the model gets hit, nothing more.

Find where it says a model that gets grounded is no longer Swooping. Find it.

It is neither swooping nor gliding - it is grounded. The rules explicitly state this.

What rule removes Swooping? Page/para?

FMC page.
"If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground - it suffers a single Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A Grounded Monsterous Creature &cetra".
On the movement page it doesn't mention that after you've moved the model, the model is no longer where it was. You are employing the same logic.

I still don't see the part where it says its no longer swooping. Please show it to me.

hyv3mynd wrote:FMC's have 2 modes: gliding and swooping.

You've made that up.
You can choose to glide or swoop, or you can become grounded by enemy shooting.

Testify wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, Grounded is not a state of movement. Its something that happens if the model gets hit, nothing more.

Find where it says a model that gets grounded is no longer Swooping. Find it.

It is neither swooping nor gliding - it is grounded. The rules explicitly state this.

What rule removes Swooping? Page/para?

FMC page.
"If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground - it suffers a single Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A Grounded Monsterous Creature &cetra".
On the movement page it doesn't mention that after you've moved the model, the model is no longer where it was. You are employing the same logic.

No, I'm not. I have permission to move my model. I can't have more than one of this model without paying points/FoC, etc.
Therefore, when my model is moved I obviously do not have a second one.

I am Swooping. I then get Grounded. Nowhere in Grounded does it say Swooping is removed. It even goes out of the way to not remove Swooping.

Green is Best! wrote:I fully expect this to be FAQ'd that grounded = no longer swooping.

Agreed.

Grey Templar wrote:

Testify wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, Grounded is not a state of movement. Its something that happens if the model gets hit, nothing more.

Find where it says a model that gets grounded is no longer Swooping. Find it.

It is neither swooping nor gliding - it is grounded. The rules explicitly state this.

What rule removes Swooping? Page/para?

FMC page.
"If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground - it suffers a single Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A Grounded Monsterous Creature &cetra".
On the movement page it doesn't mention that after you've moved the model, the model is no longer where it was. You are employing the same logic.

I still don't see the part where it says its no longer swooping. Please show it to me.

The part where it says it's grounded.
I'll say again - FMCs can be Swooping, Gliding or Grounded. At no point in the description for the Grounded state does it say that it is still swooping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
No, I'm not. I have permission to move my model. I can't have more than one of this model without paying points/FoC, etc.
Therefore, when my model is moved I obviously do not have a second one.

Page number/paragraph stating this? No where does it state that your model is no longer in the place that it was.

rigeld2 wrote:
I am Swooping. I then get Grounded. Nowhere in Grounded does it say Swooping is removed. It even goes out of the way to not remove Swooping.

It goes out of the way not to say a lot of things.
What it DOES say is that it is now a Grounded Flying Monsterous Creature. NOT a Swooping Flying Monsterous Creature.

Why are we still talking about swooping?

Where does it say you are no longer diving?

I can tell you this. If you play me in a game and you tell me that your grounded FMC is still swooping. We will be packing up models and I will never play you again.

I'll say my peace on this and I'm done.

Gliding and Swooping are declared on the FMC player turn. If they are grounded during the other players Shooting Phase they can not Glide or Swoop until their Movement turn. I do not see what is so hard about this besides the Rules Lawyers believing. "It doesn't say I stop Swooping/Diving!" Does it have to say this when it says you land on the ground so hard you take a STR 9 no save wound??????????????

Again, Grounded is NOT a state of movement.

FMCs are either Swooping or Gliding. Grounded is not a 3rd state of movement.

Its something that happens if a FMC gets hit. If they had meant it to not be swooping anymore they would have said "The FMC is no longer swooping", but they didn't.

They said it can be assaulted in the following assault phase and no longer gets a Jink save. Thats it, nothing about it no longer Swooping. A Permissive ruleset requires you to explicitly say something has changed for it to change. The status quo is that it is Swooping. Nothing changed it.

MJThurston wrote:Why are we still talking about swooping?

Where does it say you are no longer diving?

I can tell you this. If you play me in a game and you tell me that your grounded FMC is still swooping. We will be packing up models and I will never play you again.

I'll say my peace on this and I'm done.

Gliding and Swooping are declared on the FMC player turn. If they are grounded during the other players Shooting Phase they can not Glide or Swoop until their Movement turn. I do not see what is so hard about this besides the Rules Lawyers believing. "It doesn't say I stop Swooping/Diving!" Does it have to say this when it says you land on the ground so hard you take a STR 9 no save wound??????????????

Oh sup, my conscripts just blew apart your 300 point FMC because of a rule I just made up.
LET'S BE FRIENDS.
Lol, no.

MJThurston wrote:Does it have to say this when it says you land on the ground so hard you take a STR 9 no save wound??????????????

The way the rules work, yes.

In a game, I don't really care how it gets played.
In a RAW discussion, it absolutely needs to remove the Swooping.

Well, the terminology used by GW in this case is horrible.

Gliding means you are acting like jump infantry. So, as I envision it, the FMC is on the ground taking short hops with its wings, but ending its turn on the ground. This means you are taking difficult terrain tests if you try to leave or enter moving more than 6".

Swooping is when it is up in the air, moving as a flyer.

However, when most people hear the word gliding, they still think of flight.

So, my question now is I have an FMC sitting in difficult terrain. I choose to go to swoop mode. Since swoop ignores difficult terrain, no test is needed. Correct?

Thats correct.

Grey Templar wrote: If they had meant it to not be swooping anymore they would have said "The FMC is no longer swooping", but they didn't.

Let;'s not get ahead of ourselves here. We have many years of shady GW rules writing to argue against this being an oversight and not intentional.

Grey Templar wrote:Again, Grounded is NOT a state of movement.

FMCs are either Swooping or Gliding. Grounded is not a 3rd state of movement.

Its something that happens if a FMC gets hit. If they had meant it to not be swooping anymore they would have said "The FMC is no longer swooping", but they didn't.

They said it can be assaulted in the following assault phase and no longer gets a Jink save. Thats it, nothing about it no longer Swooping. A Permissive ruleset requires you to explicitly say something has changed for it to change. The status quo is that it is Swooping. Nothing changed it.

So when it says "The flying Monsterous Creature is now grounded", they forgot to add "ignore the previous sentence", since apparently it's meaningless.

The Monsterous Creature is specifically stated to be Grounded, then spells out what Grounded means.
In fact by your logic, it is grounded for the entire game since no where in the explanation does it state that being grounded ever ends.

So either grounding over-rides swooping, and swooping over-rides gliding in the following turn.
Or if it ever grounds once, it is never ungrounded, though you can re-gain your Jink save.

Testify wrote:FMC page.
"If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground - it suffers a single Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A Grounded Monsterous Creature &cetra".

I missed this when I was reading the rules. This is correct - the FMC is no longer swooping.

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:FMC page.
"If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground - it suffers a single Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A Grounded Monsterous Creature &cetra".

I missed this when I was reading the rules. This is correct - the FMC is no longer swooping.

Again, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT?

Nowhere, thats where.


Nothing prohibits the FMC from Swooping and being Grounded at the same time. Grounded superceeds Swooping in the case of conflict, so it can be assaulted and doesn't get Jink if it had it.

Grey Templar wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:FMC page.
"If a 1 or 2 is rolled, the beast comes crashing down to the ground - it suffers a single Strength 9 hit with no armour or cover saves allowed, and becomes Grounded. A Grounded Monsterous Creature &cetra".

I missed this when I was reading the rules. This is correct - the FMC is no longer swooping.

Again, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT?

Nowhere, thats where.


Nothing prohibits the FMC from Swooping and being Grounded at the same time. Grounded superceeds Swooping in the case of conflict, so it can be assaulted and doesn't get Jink if it had it.

Grounded tests, third paragraph.

Nope, nothing there saying it stops Swooping.