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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 16:01:24
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Fixture of Dakka
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The FAQ was completely idiotic and made no sense in 5th edition.
In 6th edition it makes complete, 100% sense. (Which makes me wonder if they put that question in the wrong file and released it early.)
rigeld2, you're totally over-thinking this, and for a couple of reasons.
1) Like always, the FAQ only effects that single codex, it doesn't have any bearing at all on any other codex. It's written with the purpose of clearing up the author's original intent (or, sometimes intentionally buffing or nerfing a rule). So, if the FAQ for C:BA says "Bolters are assault 5 weapons", that only changes bolters in C:BA and no where else.
2) The BRB doesn't require a piece of terrain, it requires difficult terrain. The Nid FAQ would probably be more accurate if it dropped the words "a piece of". But, either way the ruling is correct (even if the reasoning isn't).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 16:04:27
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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rigeld2 wrote:It still isn't a piece of terrain, as defined by page 120. Unless you place a piece of clear/open terrain.
And you still don't need a piece of terrain if it gets FAQ'd to say Open Ground instead of clear/open terrain.
Any area not specificly classed as a type of terrain (examples of terrain types) is considered to be open ground.
Any area, not any "piece of terrain". This means open board.
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11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 16:10:42
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Paramount Plague Censer Bearer
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I dont HAVE THE RULE BOOK WITH ME but can you aggree to follwo this LOGIC:
1 In order to have your int lowered you have to move through difficult terain
2 The NON tranid powers FORCE your to ROLL as if you have MOVED THROUGH difficult Terrain
3 Since you ROLLED as if you were moving through Difficult terain your INT drops
4 (FLUFF) "oh man we are slow all of a sudden"
1 Tyranid makes you take a Dangerous Terain Test
2 Tyranid does NOT make you roll for difficult terain, you are not MOVING THROUGH DANGEROUS TERAIN simply taking the test (roll a 1 and die)
3 No slowing down of models, no rolling 2d6 for movement no INT drop
4(fluff) "CHHHAAAARRGGGE!!!", *run run run* "ACK I swallowed a bug" chokes and dies!
Again I dont have the rules so I cant site em for you but THIS is how I see it. If that doesnt do it for ya well then I cant help you anymore good day sir!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 16:11:15
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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The Hive Mind
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Grakmar wrote:rigeld2, you're totally over-thinking this, and for a couple of reasons.
1) Like always, the FAQ only effects that single codex, it doesn't have any bearing at all on any other codex. It's written with the purpose of clearing up the author's original intent (or, sometimes intentionally buffing or nerfing a rule). So, if the FAQ for C:BA says "Bolters are assault 5 weapons", that only changes bolters in C:BA and no where else.
So only BA vehicles could smoke in the scout phase?
FAQs can apply to other codexes if the ruling is sufficiently broad. The Nid FAQ is pretty broad.
2) The BRB doesn't require a piece of terrain, it requires difficult terrain. The Nid FAQ would probably be more accurate if it dropped the words "a piece of". But, either way the ruling is correct (even if the reasoning isn't).
The BRB requires difficult terrain, the Nid FAQ clarifies this to a piece of terrain.
This makes sense based on page 120 where pieces of terrain are mentioned. Automatically Appended Next Post: Maelstrom808 wrote:rigeld2 wrote:It still isn't a piece of terrain, as defined by page 120. Unless you place a piece of clear/open terrain.
And you still don't need a piece of terrain if it gets FAQ'd to say Open Ground instead of clear/open terrain.
Any area not specificly classed as a type of terrain (examples of terrain types) is considered to be open ground.
Any area, not any "piece of terrain". This means open board.
And then you're ignoring the Nid FAQ that clarifies to mean a piece of terrain. Or am I misunderstanding you? Automatically Appended Next Post: Dooley wrote:I dont HAVE THE RULE BOOK WITH ME but can you aggree to follwo this LOGIC:
1 In order to have your int lowered you have to move through difficult terain
2 The NON tranid powers FORCE your to ROLL as if you have MOVED THROUGH difficult Terrain
3 Since you ROLLED as if you were moving through Difficult terain your INT drops
4 (FLUFF) "oh man we are slow all of a sudden"
CAPS aren't REQUIRED.
Rolling has nothing to do with it. At all.
Again I dont have the rules so I cant site em for you but THIS is how I see it. If that doesnt do it for ya well then I cant help you anymore good day sir!
Nothing you've said has anything to do with what I've put forth in this thread. Thanks for participating.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/11 16:14:49
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 16:15:54
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Sure am. Because 1) it's for the Nid codex and as such cannot be applied to any other codex. and 2) you don't need to create a piece of terrain because you are making the unit move as if they were in that terrain.
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11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 16:23:40
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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The Hive Mind
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Maelstrom808 wrote:Sure am. Because 1) it's for the Nid codex and as such cannot be applied to any other codex. and 2) you don't need to create a piece of terrain because you are making the unit move as if they were in that terrain.
Again - saying that no FAQ can ever apply to any other Codex is fine, until you run into situations like smoking while scouting (in 5th). The rules don't cover that. At all.
The BA FAQ allowed you to do so. According to you, that's BA only.
There are other rulings that use sufficiently broad Q/As that, to handle without the game blowing up, you need to reference non-Codex FAQs.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 17:14:55
Subject: Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I cant think of any in the 6th edition FAQs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 17:32:11
Subject: Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Just as a random opinion (not any value for the RAW discussion), I would think a yellowish thick spore cloud would be a better area to make ambushes or get the edge on your opponent rather than a "oh, this librarian is making us feel slow.
back on topic, I feel that none of these rules actually lower initiative because of a slip in the basic rulebook; the one mentioned earlier about open ground vs. clear terrain
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 18:03:56
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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rigeld2 wrote:Maelstrom808 wrote:Sure am. Because 1) it's for the Nid codex and as such cannot be applied to any other codex. and 2) you don't need to create a piece of terrain because you are making the unit move as if they were in that terrain.
Again - saying that no FAQ can ever apply to any other Codex is fine, until you run into situations like smoking while scouting (in 5th). The rules don't cover that. At all.
The BA FAQ allowed you to do so. According to you, that's BA only.
There are other rulings that use sufficiently broad Q/As that, to handle without the game blowing up, you need to reference non-Codex FAQs.
Do you want to discuss RAW or RAI?
RAW, yeah the BA codex FAQ only applies to BA. GW writes rules poorly, it's a fact. Just like they did in the Nid FAQ.
RAI, the intention of the rules for Sanc and MH are pretty clear and you are coming across like you are looking for loopholes around it.
Spore Cloud forces a unit to make a dangerous terrain test. It doesn't say anything about changing terrain types, or making the unit count as if it was moving through a particular type of terrain. It just forces the test. The FAQ reinforces this in 6th where the init drop is not tied to a test anymore, it's tied to moving through difficult terrain.
Sanc/MH makes the unit move as if the terrain were D&D. Part of the effects of moving through D&D terrain is that you are reduced to I1 when you charge through it. You don't need an actual piece of terrain because being in one or not, the unit moves like it is in one, and therefore takes all the penalties that entails.
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11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 18:08:03
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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The Hive Mind
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Maelstrom808 wrote:rigeld2 wrote:Maelstrom808 wrote:Sure am. Because 1) it's for the Nid codex and as such cannot be applied to any other codex. and 2) you don't need to create a piece of terrain because you are making the unit move as if they were in that terrain.
Again - saying that no FAQ can ever apply to any other Codex is fine, until you run into situations like smoking while scouting (in 5th). The rules don't cover that. At all.
The BA FAQ allowed you to do so. According to you, that's BA only.
There are other rulings that use sufficiently broad Q/As that, to handle without the game blowing up, you need to reference non-Codex FAQs.
Do you want to discuss RAW or RAI?
RAW, yeah the BA codex FAQ only applies to BA.
Fair enough. Any time this was brought up during 5th, it came down to " RAW is literally broken and has no answer, so use the next closest thing possible."
I do see your point though.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 18:19:39
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Heh, RAW is pretty broken in 6th too  The whole pile in vs changing initiatives thread is a
Even in this...there is no clear terrain or open terrain, only open ground, so really if you go by strict RAW, the powers don't even work at all unless you are in some form of terrain other than open ground.
Most of the time when we play, we take the simplest and most logical solution and apply it, then argue the semantics later.
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11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 18:22:30
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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The Hive Mind
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Maelstrom808 wrote:Most of the time when we play, we take the simplest and most logical solution and apply it, then argue the semantics later.
Sure. But I'd be willing to bet neither of us is playing right now.
I had a question, and it felt worth it to me to post. I did get a little short at first because people were saying " lol they're different lol"
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 18:48:01
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot
Green Bay
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rigeld2 wrote:FAQs can apply to other codexes if the ruling is sufficiently broad. The Nid FAQ is pretty broad.
So, you are saying that BT players should rejoice, and use the DA faq instead of their own to get the rules for a typhoon misslie launcher then?
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rigeld2 wrote: Now go ahead and take that out of context to make me look like a fool. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 19:10:38
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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rigeld2 wrote:Maelstrom808 wrote:Most of the time when we play, we take the simplest and most logical solution and apply it, then argue the semantics later.
Sure. But I'd be willing to bet neither of us is playing right now.
I had a question, and it felt worth it to me to post. I did get a little short at first because people were saying " lol they're different lol"
Understandable
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11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/07/11 19:53:26
Subject: Re:Re-examining the boning Tyranids got in January
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The Hive Mind
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nolzur wrote:rigeld2 wrote:FAQs can apply to other codexes if the ruling is sufficiently broad. The Nid FAQ is pretty broad.
So, you are saying that BT players should rejoice, and use the DA faq instead of their own to get the rules for a typhoon misslie launcher then?
If the BT codex has the entry on pages 27 and 88, sure.
I bet it doesn't though.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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