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Happyjew wrote:Somehow, I am not seeing anything in the FAQ about Seeker Missiles Snap Firing at normal BS.

Its in the actual FAQ questions section.

So let me get this straight. A vehicle reduced to BS 1 (for whatever reason) does not apply to a Seeker Missile. Therefore, the argument is that a Seeker Missile is ALWAYS BS 5 (even if making a Snap Shot).

I'm not sure I follow this logic.

Because codex rule (Seeker fires at BS5) trumps rule book rule (can only fire as BS1).

Happyjew wrote:So let me get this straight. A vehicle reduced to BS 1 (for whatever reason) does not apply to a Seeker Missile. Therefore, the argument is that a Seeker Missile is ALWAYS BS 5 (even if making a Snap Shot).

I'm not sure I follow this logic.

Well, the logic may not be clear, but the FAQ is. It specifically covers vehicles that are shaken or stunned (which therefore are only firing snap shots at BS1) and says that their seeker missiles fire at BS5. If you read the FAQ question carefully, the 'shaken' and 'stunned' examples are just examples, not even exhaustive, so the answer is quite clear: Seeker missiles are always resolved at BS5, which is fair because they already require a normal 'to hit' roll to be completed via a markerlight hit to utilize. So to hit a flyer with a seeker, you still have to roll a '6' to hit it with the markerlight, its just then the Seeker gets to use its BS5 rule. All of which sounds pretty darn fair IMHO.

Happyjew wrote:So let me get this straight. A vehicle reduced to BS 1 (for whatever reason) does not apply to a Seeker Missile. Therefore, the argument is that a Seeker Missile is ALWAYS BS 5 (even if making a Snap Shot).

I'm not sure I follow this logic.

I look at it as the fact that the vehicle isn't actually firing the Seeker Missile, it just carries it around and the missile fires itself when it receives co-ordinates and a firing order from a markerlight. The fluff of the Seeker Missile entry in the armoury states that usually vehicles have no control of any Seeker Missiles they are carrying (with the exception being the Skyray as that comes with 2 networked Markerlights and so can fire its own missiles). This explains why the vehicles BS has no effect on the Seeker Missile, why a Seeker Missile can be fired from a vehicle at full BS no matter how far that vehicle has moved or whether it is shaken or stunned and why a Markerlight hit is required to fire it in the first place.

So when shooting at a flier you've made the snap shot with a markerlight to paint the target. Now all the missile has to do is follow the red dot on the bottom of that flier to hit its target. If you roll a one to hit with that Seeker Missile then we can assume that the markerlight firer lost the track on the target at a critical moment and the Seeker veered off, if you roll a 2+ then that marker kept that flier painted and the advanced guidance systems on the missile brought it in with the unerring accuracy only a computer is capable of.

To have a one-use S8 AP3 missile (and the only S8 AP3 missile available to the Tau) require 2 rolls of a 6 to even hit its target is a bit extreme, especially considering that the Skyrays fluff describes it as an excellent air defence system when combined with Pathfinder Markerlight support.

It isn't 2 rolls of 6. It could be zero rolls of 6. The marker light gets to hit on its own BS, and the seeker uses BS 5. This is two set modifiers are odds, and Seeker Missile wins.

DarknessEternal wrote:It isn't 2 rolls of 6. It could be zero rolls of 6. The marker light gets to hit on its own BS, and the seeker uses BS 5. This is two set modifiers are odds, and Seeker Missile wins.

The question I was replying to was about whether Seeker Missiles always hit on their BS5:

So let me get this straight. A vehicle reduced to BS 1 (for whatever reason) does not apply to a Seeker Missile. Therefore, the argument is that a Seeker Missile is ALWAYS BS 5 (even if making a Snap Shot).

I'm not sure I follow this logic.

or whether they just ignore any BS changes to the vehicle they are carried on.

My post was pointing out that the Seeker Missile is guided by another shot which has already had to hit, a unique rule in 40K as far as I'm aware. To not have it always use its BS5 would mean that it would have to snap fire at fliers which would lead to it only having a 1/36 chance of actually hitting that flier (1/6 chance of hitting with the markerlight then a 1/6 chance of the missile hitting), making what is described in fluff as a weapon which excels in anti-air roles the least accurate weapon in the game when it comes to hitting a zooming flier.

DarknessEternal wrote:It isn't 2 rolls of 6. It could be zero rolls of 6. The marker light gets to hit on its own BS, and the seeker uses BS 5. This is two set modifiers are odds, and Seeker Missile wins.

Well, the markerlight fired at a zooming skimmer would be a snap shot and so would need a roll of '6' to hit. That's the 'first' roll of '6' needed. But yes, I agree the FAQ makes it perfectly clear that the actual seeker missile shot would be at BS5.

yakface wrote:

Happyjew wrote:So let me get this straight. A vehicle reduced to BS 1 (for whatever reason) does not apply to a Seeker Missile. Therefore, the argument is that a Seeker Missile is ALWAYS BS 5 (even if making a Snap Shot).

I'm not sure I follow this logic.

. So to hit a flyer with a seeker, you still have to roll a '6' to hit it with the markerlight, its just then the Seeker gets to use its BS5 rule. All of which sounds pretty darn fair IMHO.

Hardly fair as our so called exceptional anti air unit that users seekers to defend the Skys has the worst odds to hit an air unit out of anything I have seen in the game. Even a BS1 Ork can hit flyers more often than our anti air unit and anti-air weapon.

We effectively have to hit with 2 hit dice to hit flyers with Seeker missiles which makes no sense for what the codex describes as our main exceptional anti air weapon.

To be honest. Everything as an equal chance to hit but the more shots you have the better chance you have to hit.

Ork's need a 6.
Tau need a 6.
SM's need a 6.

MJThurston wrote:To be honest. Everything as an equal chance to hit but the more shots you have the better chance you have to hit.

Ork's need a 6.
Tau need a 6.
SM's need a 6.

Yes, but the main qualm is that seeker missiles are essentially worse than others because you need a 6 to hit, and then you need another 2+ to make sure you hit (not even to mention the penetration die), so you have less of a chance of hitting than most other weapons.

Edit: also, they are one-shot weapons that cost nearly half a crisis suit (before weapons), so people don't like that it is such a low chance to hit with something that costs so much.

So. Seeker Missiles have always worked this way. I don't see the issue.

MJThurston wrote:So. Seeker Missiles have always worked this way. I don't see the issue.

The issue is that a seeker missile doesn't have the same chance to hit as everything else?

SCvodimier wrote:

MJThurston wrote:So. Seeker Missiles have always worked this way. I don't see the issue.

The issue is that a seeker missile doesn't have the same chance to hit as everything else?

And that's a new thing? Oh wait, it's not.

It was a simple response to his claim that everything had an equal chance to hit. Since we've now established that that is not the case, please continue.

In other words, they used to suck, nothing has changed and they still suck. Bring on the new Tau dex for great justice!!!...er, greater good!!