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mikhaila wrote:Population density.

% of that population that are gamers.

Culteral differences in different regions.

All of these combine to make some areas much less viable for game stores, GW or FLGS, as they have fewer gamers spending fewer dollars.

Very, very true. Cultural pastimes are a big thing against gaming in the south. Sports are huge. Tell someone that you arent into sports and they look at you like you just grew a second head. Another big thing is the "beer culture" in the south. Many, many people simply hang out and drink in their free time. If I ask 10 random guys (of all ages) around here what they are going to do on the upcoming weekend, at least 5 will say "get some beers".

Wait, are you saying that beer drinking isn't a hobby? When did this happen?

Pretty good representation around Atlanta tbh. There's us, Triumph, Treefort, Tower, the GW store, FCB.

I know our store averages 30-35 gamers a weeknight on both Fantasy & 40k days, and the weekend is even more.

Aerethan wrote:Wait, are you saying that beer drinking isn't a hobby? When did this happen?

I don't know. Never received the memo.

Beer drinking's not a hobby, it's a life-style man

Sergeant Horse wrote:Pretty good representation around Atlanta tbh. There's us, Triumph, Treefort, Tower, the GW store, FCB.

I know our store averages 30-35 gamers a weeknight on both Fantasy & 40k days, and the weekend is even more.

Agreed, the Metro-Atlanta area has a pretty robust GW gaming community, both 40K and Fantasy. The North-Metro area is more heavily represented, but that's also the most densely populated suburban area. From what I have heard, the GW store in Sandy Springs is taking a really good approach to opening up in an area that has a number of large, successful gaming stores. I know that the GW manager and Mr. Horse have a good working relationship.

I know that Atlanta is several hours away from Charlotte, but there are a bunch of tournaments that happen at one store or another. There is a 40K and/or Fantasy tournament every month at one store or another.

Saldiven wrote: I know that the GW manager and Mr. Horse have a good working relationship.

me and Kenny brofist regularly.

Judging from your avatar, Kenny must be a Necron

We have two in Memphis. We have the Bunker and we have a store in Cordova that started off as a model train store that inherited a bunch of old 40k stock. Both run events regularly but normally the second store does not last long because there is not a lot of money to be thrown around in this town.

spaceelf wrote:
It is my impression that gaming shops do not earn enough money to pay for high end real estate. Thus, the ones that survive are generally in less expensive locations.

In general, but there are many exceptions to the statement. Less expensive locations are also worse in locations in may ways. My combined rent for my two stores is 7k and 10k. I've been around for 25 years.

Having a high rent means you can't screw up, and had better take advantage of what that location gives you. Higher costs, more opportunities.

And in a bad economy, paying the rent each month can be tough. I generally don't take days off, ever.) In a really bad month, I clone myself, then sell the clones when they aren't needed so I don't have to feed them.

GENIUS!

I lived in the south for 3 years, Savannah GA. Great city. It had history, mystery, charm, and, a good local game store. Now, GW did not realy do anything to help the store. To be sure, It might have been the majority of mini games, but, took a back seat to MTG.

Now, in Texas, the FLGS does have a good amount of GW games played, but, that is getting less and less. FOW, Malifaux, and now MTG are becoming more popular due to the annual price gouging.

Of course, the south has a fair amount of poverty, lets be realistic here. The majority of government support (food tamps, lower cost housing, etc) is overwhelming, more than any other part of the country. That has a bit to do with it.

I'm planning to host a GT in Atlanta, but I have to see every GT's schedule. I just got through talking to one of my friends, who know who run Dragon Con, but it would take about 2 years to get everything set. Dragon Con would be the best time to run a GT, it on a holiday, plus you get to see a hugh show at the sametime.

Mannahnin wrote:Do you mean GW stores themselves, or FLGS' running events?

There are no GW stores in my state, or any of the three states adjoining it, but there are a good number of FLGS' running events regularly.

Despite population density, GW apparently does not like Northern New England. Odd that.

Slightly OT, where, may I ask, do you reside Mannahnin?

Mad4Minis wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Population density.

% of that population that are gamers.

Culteral differences in different regions.

All of these combine to make some areas much less viable for game stores, GW or FLGS, as they have fewer gamers spending fewer dollars.

Very, very true. Cultural pastimes are a big thing against gaming in the south. Sports are huge. Tell someone that you arent into sports and they look at you like you just grew a second head. Another big thing is the "beer culture" in the south. Many, many people simply hang out and drink in their free time. If I ask 10 random guys (of all ages) around here what they are going to do on the upcoming weekend, at least 5 will say "get some beers".

All of which is true - but none of which actually makes it a hard target for GW games. GW is the biggest reason they are not big in the South. I did a stint down at Hurlburt Field in the 1990s (smack dab in the middle of the Redneck Riviera). On the weekends, we would setup a table on the back porch - drink beer and play a game or three. Blood Bowl was popular with the locals, as was 40K. Part of the issue that you will have is that going somewhere (to a game store) to hang out and play a game isn't too popular. Most stores frown on BYOB and I haven't found one with a liquor license to sell their own (though we had a group that played at the VFW in Texas which had a bar as well).

Southern culture though is very supportive of wargaming - though you will probably have to be proactive to find it. They also don't mind spending money on what they want (stereo typing...I know, but if you were to look in any lower middle class neighborhood in the south you will find bigscreen TVs and very expensive toys all around). GW though isn't friendly to the culture. They killed off the best gateway games they had for the region (Bloodbowl and Warhammer Historical). The stores don't really mix well with the people (nor do most of the actual game stores from what I have seen).

It is hard to explain without sounding harsh - but your "average gamer" tends to look down on your "average Southerner." They see them as redneck NASCAR fans who are uneducated and poor. Most game stores are ran by "average gamers" and your "average Southerner" would rather punch him in the mouth than spend a dollar in their store. They have a lot more disposable income than one might think - in large part because they are significantly different all around. A southerner who makes $40,000 a year will spend more on fun stuff than someone from southern CA or New England who makes twice that.

Anywho, I've lived on each coast, in the Midwest, in the southwest, Texas (a region unto themselves) and the deep south and have never had a problem finding people to game with. People are different though in each area and they also tend to play differently. Most the games I played in the South were not in stores or at conventions but at private houses. Many of them were big groups too - and most of them didn't look like your "average gamer". The majority of the Southern gamers that I keep in touch with would also like to punch GW in the mouth for the way they have been handling things in the past 5-10 years or so though.

Plenty of GW goodness in TN. We have a pretty active community for 40k and less so for fantasy, but its making a comeback. I can't really speak for West TN, but the Knoxville, Chattanooga and Nashville/Murfreesboro areas have a solid group of gamers. Cookeville is also making a showing on the map nowadays and Clarksville used to have a huge group of guys that play.

I think the problem is we don't have dedicated GW stores, its all FLGS so its not always apparent where you go to game.
But Dicehead Games in Cleveland, TN and Grand Adventures in Murfreesboro put on large events every year, they collaborated this year to host the ATC.

The south used to have 2 GTs, Exterminatus and The Big Waaaagh! but both got the kibosh for various reasons. I know a few game clubs in TN and AL that would love to get a GT rolling and The Foundry in Huntsville, AL is doing just that with the Redstone Rumble in a few weeks.

wileythenord wrote:Plenty of GW goodness in TN. We have a pretty active community for 40k and less so for fantasy, but its making a comeback. I can't really speak for West TN, but the Knoxville, Chattanooga and Nashville/Murfreesboro areas have a solid group of gamers. Cookeville is also making a showing on the map nowadays and Clarksville used to have a huge group of guys that play.

I think the problem is we don't have dedicated GW stores, its all FLGS so its not always apparent where you go to game.
But Dicehead Games in Cleveland, TN and Grand Adventures in Murfreesboro put on large events every year, they collaborated this year to host the ATC.

The south used to have 2 GTs, Exterminatus and The Big Waaaagh! but both got the kibosh for various reasons. I know a few game clubs in TN and AL that would love to get a GT rolling and The Foundry in Huntsville, AL is doing just that with the Redstone Rumble in a few weeks.

"

I would really like to see a push to get some of these big tourneys going. A good friend of my plays at the Alamo every year because it is not all that far.

martin74 wrote: ...

Now, in Texas, the FLGS does have a good amount of GW games played, but, that is getting less and less. FOW, Malifaux, and now MTG are becoming more popular due to the annual price gouging.

...

That's sad to hear. Killeen was once a great place for WHFB and 40K beginning with Slaughterhouse Comics and Games and then Battlefield Games. Tom Keegan and Rich Courtney even ran a WHFB Indy GT "The Hombre" for a few years.

FOW caught on really big too but that was expected since military guys like WWII. Warmachine hit pretty big too. I can see the allure of smaller games with good rules and high quality miniatures ala Infinity but I'm a bit surprised to see MTG going strong. On the other hand, it can be a "gateway" game to get young folks into the gaming store where they will eventually "graduate" to tabletop minis.

I've lived in many southern states and there is great variation between them. However, I do concur with the statements made about low incomes and low population densities but you can also attribute some of the reduced gamer population to the influence of Bible Belt mentalities. Gaming is not highly regarded by aggressive evangelistic denominations. But that's a discussion in detail for another thread.

I've not really found GW to be under represented; rather, things go in cycles. I've lived and played GW in the South for over 20 years.

I've been in NC for the past 9 years (Ft Bragg area) and for a smallish population, I can go to three different shops to get in games or buy product (Hobbit, Gamer's Guild and Hit Point Hobbies). Is 40K as popular now as it was when I first got to the area; no. Can I easily get a pick up game; yes. I can play Wednesday nights at Gamer's Guild, Fridays/Satruday/Sunday at Hit Point and Saturdays at the Hobbit. Is 40K a bit slow right now in the Fayetteville area? Most likely, but you have to account for nearly the entire 82nd Division (Division, 1BCT, 4BCT, CAB) being currently deployed as well as various other units. It will pick up this fall, I can guarantee that.

I'll travel up to the Raleigh area and there are several FLGS to game at. I'd periodically travel to the area for tourneys.

The other location I played at for many years is in Florida, particularly Jacksonville. Ironically, it was after I left the state that GW is now placing their stores there. IIRC, there will be three in the state by August (Jacksonville, Orlando area, Miami area). However, in Jacksonville, there are two shops that support GW regularly: Borderlands and Sun Coast. Both have in store gaming and a good selection of GW products.

Another distinct factor is a slumping economy. I've observed more and more complaints over the price of products in the past 5 years that has actually equated to less purchases.

Granted, this is only two states I'm referring to. On the positive, I've attended the NOVA (I suppose it can be considered the South in Crystal City VA), the 11th Co tourney (Myrtle Beach, SC) and Ancient City Con (Jacksonville FL). There are always smaller local events and even Beaky Con in the Tampa FL area.

Basically, if I want to play in a tourney every month, I can. If I want to buy products locally, I can. If I want to play pick up games, I can. Can I play at a huge Battle Bunker, I can not.

Personally, I've found one of the best ways to attract players at a local shop is to bring in your own terrain (painted to a decent standard), bring a fully painted army folks will become more interested. That's what I've been doing for over 20 years regardless of where I'm at and have never had any real issues finding players.

This will likely be my plan next year when I move down to Georgia next year.

Sarigar, they're opening up a GW in Jacksonville for sure? One opened up here in Orlando last year and another in south fl (sunrise iirc) a few months ago. Looks like GW is making a big push in the sunshine state.

Positive about Jacksonville, I know the guy who's been offered the position to run the store.

I'm surprised there isn't a very large following in Charlotte, Charlotte's a large city, compared to most places in North Carolina. We have 1, count 'em 1, hobby store in my area, luckily the guy that owns the place just started carrying GW stuff. It's a small store and there is only a small group of 4 or so (counting myself) that play 40k. But we are trying to get something started every week. The only bad thing is that the store is fairly small and all the tables he has set up are normally surrounded by the same guys playing Magic EVERYDAY! I asked them one-time if they even had a job, or a home for that matter because they are ALWAYS at that store. If you're ever in Morganton NC check out Timmy Mac's Comics and Games, great store but it's a little cramped when its' crowded. Time Tunnel Comics is in Hickory NC, they carry more products but the store is so small there is no chance they will have an organized event (besides Magic as usual)