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Since im moving to charlotte in a few months i started checking out gw related events in the area, what came up? Next to nothing. I find it strange considering GW is based now in memphis. There are plenty of differant cons going on dragon con being the big one, but no warhammer or 40k.

Can someone explain why magic, warmachine, hordes ect... Are so prevalent in the south but GW isnt.

I have absolutely no clue.

We had a GW store in Charlotte about a decade ago, but it only lasted for three years.

A GW store just opened up here in Raleigh this year, and it seems to be doing okay.

I'm about 20 minutes from the Warstore and I have nothing within a half hour of me in terms of GW. :(

Do you mean GW stores themselves, or FLGS' running events?

There are no GW stores in my state, or any of the three states adjoining it, but there are a good number of FLGS' running events regularly.

It's funny you say that Mannahnin, because there are a ton of independents in my area...but few would be classified by myself as "FLGS".

The poor state of game stores in Massachusetts continues to amaze me... especially the North side of town. :(

HIdden Hobbies in Wareham MA, just opened up a month or so ago. They have some GW stock on hand and are really good about ordering stuff, with about a weeks turnaround, Lots of gaming space to.

New England Comics, in New Bedford, MA starting a 6th Edition 40K league on Saturday afternoons.

Both are within an hours drive from Boston.

GW isn't exactly over-represented here in the West either.

No GW store at all in my state, and i think only two in neighbouring ones. Precious few FLGS's too...

Game stores in the south seem more scarce than those in the north from what I can tell; and here in North Carolina in particular GW is not the top game company any more. FoW, infinity, and WM/H have all taken big bites out of 40k and fantasy's popularity. The new gw store in Raleigh may have done more to hurt GW's popularity in the triangle than help it since retailers now have to compete with the direct sales and have less incentive to carry stock. That is a subject for a different thread though. There are GW players around, but they are spread thinner than what is comfortable for casual gaming.
If you want a 40k event at a local con maybe you can talk to the event organizer and get something set up yourself. You might even be able to find a store to provide a little prize support if you start looking around. Otherwise they can at least provide good opportunities to demo different games.

It sounds like the northeast might have a little game store drought too from the reports of some of the posters here.

40k at Dragoncon was big till GW pulled out of Dragoncon. After that no wanted the headache of running 40k. All it would take is someone volunteering to run it to get it back. As far as I know it has not been 8 balled by the event staff. ( I am D*con Tech Staff).

Alabama has just started to get 40k back and going with CAGE doing a State wide tournament and PlayonCon hosting a 40k Tournament at the end of the month.

It's rough here in Southern California too. There are only like 5 GW or LGS's within like 25 miles of me. I wish one was a block away from my house. Oh wait...

I feel for you though. When I lived in Hemet the closest LGS was about an hour away if there wasn't traffic. For some people it's even further or non existent.

Heroes and Dragons in Columbia, SC used to run monthly 40k tournaments. It is around 1.5 to 2 hours from Charlotte though depending upon which side of the city you are on.

GW moved to the South because of low salaries.
GW doesn't sell much in the South because of low salaries

Fists of the emperor wrote:Since im moving to charlotte in a few months i started checking out gw related events in the area, what came up? Next to nothing. I find it strange considering GW is based now in memphis. There are plenty of differant cons going on dragon con being the big one, but no warhammer or 40k.

Can someone explain why magic, warmachine, hordes ect... Are so prevalent in the south but GW isnt.

Serious answer?


Because the aforementioned company doesn't have a vary good track record in dealing with people. Stores in particular, are taking it in the hindquarters almost to the point where even dealing with GW products becomes more of a chore then it is honestly worth.

Not to mention the price gouge... er... obligatory annual price increase.

People that I have known who played for over 15 years plus, are past the breaking point in trying to keep up, the increase in the price has given rise to other systems. FOW being one of the top tiers, with Warmachine loosing ground, based on the TFG mentality of a portion of the players that make the game really hard to get into for a new player.

Hence- You don't keep a good support, a good fan base, or a solid internal support structure, the game goes to the back of the bus.

Before I left, there was a heated discussion on this topic, and needless to say, there was a schism that is still developing.

6th edition is the deathknell, based on the alternatives that are available, and the investments already made into the GW machine, that people are feeling betrayed to the point that Finecrap is dying on the vine, and it sits on the shelves, while dystopian wars, Malfaux, of all things Battletech ( yes, Battletech.) FF's selection of board games, and others that are doing way better then the over bloated corperation that has games in it, and some sort of workshop.

Be careful about this subject in some quarters of North Carolina, in some FLGS, its a hanging offense to bridge this topic.

When I was there, Fayetteville had a teetering following. People played it, but not at the propensity that they did five or six years ago. Price is 100% the reason, because we're talking about guys with serious $$$ to throw down, so if they arn't buying into the finecrap, your not going to have a very good following. Guys play what thier buddies play, and when your buddies are the crem de la crem of FOW players, your going to play what the joneses are playing.FOW.

Of course thats changing, and Malfaux was an up and comer, and that will last until something else comes back up on thier feet, or the next big game comes along.

I have been to stores that a few years back had full walls dedicated to GW, now? The same walls are bare, or including other companies, and GW gets like a 3X 6 section. Some sort of issue with buying in bulk, and some of the internal GW policies at work make selling those precious finecraps a chore, when a kid or 20 has to keep coming back to try to recoupe craptastic quality that only the "Finest miniatures in "The Hobby" can bring that lets it known that standards have slipped. One kid tells a friend, another tells his friends, and then they move on to Warmachine, or something else.

Not that warmachine has painted a better ever rosey picture of itself that has yet to be said..... ( The FOW crowd is still going strong, though. aside from the crappy price, the game is strong, and the support is now up on its feets.)

People still play, don't get me wrong, but they are not playing or going to be getting as much, or playing to the tune that GW wants everyone to be playing at, a gymfloor full of battlefield, and everyone has GW minis on every table.

As for the Cons, the economy is making putting them together pretty damn impossible, and FLGS's are doing other events to try to pick up the slack.

Last time I went into a shop, there was more other stuff going on then GW.

And this "Price gouge?" Yeah.... that has not made any friends, either. As a matter of fact, people are using GW as the butt of many jokes, even in the stores that are supposed to be selling them.
Thats my well found opinion- that I'm not alone in my dismal opinion of a company and game I used to love.

@JB- Nice shout-out to Heroes and Dragons! I played there a bit when visiting my folks during the summers of college...

Grot 6 wrote:

Fists of the emperor wrote:Since im moving to charlotte in a few months i started checking out gw related events in the area, what came up? Next to nothing. I find it strange considering GW is based now in memphis. There are plenty of differant cons going on dragon con being the big one, but no warhammer or 40k.

Can someone explain why magic, warmachine, hordes ect... Are so prevalent in the south but GW isnt.

Serious answer?


Because the aforementioned company doesn't have a vary good track record in dealing with people. Stores in particular, are taking it in the hindquarters almost to the point where even dealing with GW products becomes more of a chore then it is honestly worth.

Not to mention the price gouge... er... obligatory annual price increase.

People that I have known who played for over 15 years plus, are past the breaking point in trying to keep up, the increase in the price has given rise to other systems. FOW being one of the top tiers, with Warmachine loosing ground, based on the TFG mentality of a portion of the players that make the game really hard to get into for a new player.

Hence- You don't keep a good support, a good fan base, or a solid internal support structure, the game goes to the back of the bus.

Before I left, there was a heated discussion on this topic, and needless to say, there was a schism that is still developing.

6th edition is the deathknell, based on the alternatives that are available, and the investments already made into the GW machine, that people are feeling betrayed to the point that Finecrap is dying on the vine, and it sits on the shelves, while dystopian wars, Malfaux, of all things Battletech ( yes, Battletech.) FF's selection of board games, and others that are doing way better then the over bloated corperation that has games in it, and some sort of workshop.

Be careful about this subject in some quarters of North Carolina, in some FLGS, its a hanging offense to bridge this topic.

When I was there, Fayetteville had a teetering following. People played it, but not at the propensity that they did five or six years ago. Price is 100% the reason, because we're talking about guys with serious $$$ to throw down, so if they arn't buying into the finecrap, your not going to have a very good following. Guys play what thier buddies play, and when your buddies are the crem de la crem of FOW players, your going to play what the joneses are playing.FOW.

Of course thats changing, and Malfaux was an up and comer, and that will last until something else comes back up on thier feet, or the next big game comes along.

I have been to stores that a few years back had full walls dedicated to GW, now? The same walls are bare, or including other companies, and GW gets like a 3X 6 section. Some sort of issue with buying in bulk, and some of the internal GW policies at work make selling those precious finecraps a chore, when a kid or 20 has to keep coming back to try to recoupe craptastic quality that only the "Finest miniatures in "The Hobby" can bring that lets it known that standards have slipped. One kid tells a friend, another tells his friends, and then they move on to Warmachine, or something else.

Not that warmachine has painted a better ever rosey picture of itself that has yet to be said..... ( The FOW crowd is still going strong, though. aside from the crappy price, the game is strong, and the support is now up on its feets.)

People still play, don't get me wrong, but they are not playing or going to be getting as much, or playing to the tune that GW wants everyone to be playing at, a gymfloor full of battlefield, and everyone has GW minis on every table.

As for the Cons, the economy is making putting them together pretty damn impossible, and FLGS's are doing other events to try to pick up the slack.

Last time I went into a shop, there was more other stuff going on then GW.

And this "Price gouge?" Yeah.... that has not made any friends, either. As a matter of fact, people are using GW as the butt of many jokes, even in the stores that are supposed to be selling them.
Thats my well found opinion- that I'm not alone in my dismal opinion of a company and game I used to love.

Spot on man, i have been playing for 20+ years now and the one and only thing that is FORCING me away from the hobby.. the price, I simply cannot justify £50 for one model or £22.50 for the same god damn kit I bought 10 years ago.

RiTides wrote:@JB- Nice shout-out to Heroes and Dragons! I played there a bit when visiting my folks during the summers of college...

I wish I had been able to play there. Their gaming space is pretty good and they were running their monthly tournament while I was in town. Unfortunately, I was visiting my folks and did not have any armies with me.

This discussion just makes me appreciate the Kansas City area more for both the strong 40K scene and the wide variety of other miniature, RPG, and board games that have good followings.

The big selling point for FoW is that 15mm WW2 is not a new thing and other companies have been making stuff in it for decades.

Sure, Plastic soldier is the latest in a long line - but it (like Battlefront) have never been the sole source of WW2 stuff in that scale.

That doesn't hurt.

There is a GW store in Sandy Springs, GA just outside of Atlanta. City Walk or somesuch, been here since Oct of last year. Doing pretty well it seems. Kenny (manager) is a very nice guy.

I would most likley say it is not something related to the south in general. I think with GW's pricing now, it is going to be become less and less popular EVERYWHERE.

GW is going to start slowing dying on the vine.

I make a very good wage, and I balk at the price of GW.

FoW, Infinity, WM etc... all offer better Fun for the $$$ ratios....

There is also Borderlands in Greenville SC, about 1 hour to 1.5 depending on where your coming from in Charlotte, we don't run tournaments every month but when we do they usually have 24+ people playing in them. 6th edition has also sparked alot of interest in 40k again so you should be able to find a game.

Connecticut doesn't have any GW's in them, many states do not. South as a whole doesnt have it any different.

chuckachu wrote:There is a GW store in Sandy Springs, GA just outside of Atlanta. City Walk or somesuch, been here since Oct of last year. Doing pretty well it seems. Kenny (manager) is a very nice guy.

This is the only GW store I ever walked into in my life where the staff didn't use their standard annoying ass pushy sales tactics.


Atlanta also has Giga-Bites Cafe in Marietta and Tower Game Center in Suwanee. Both are awesome.

You could also try Parker Banner Kent & Wayne in Cornellius NC (about 10 min north of charlotte I-77)
They have monthly tournaments at varying points. There is usually a few guys there through the week playing after work as well.

Dais wrote:Game stores in the south seem more scarce than those in the north from what I can tell; and here in North Carolina in particular GW is not the top game company any more. FoW, infinity, and WM/H have all taken big bites out of 40k and fantasy's popularity. The new gw store in Raleigh may have done more to hurt GW's popularity in the triangle than help it since retailers now have to compete with the direct sales and have less incentive to carry stock. That is a subject for a different thread though. There are GW players around, but they are spread thinner than what is comfortable for casual gaming.
If you want a 40k event at a local con maybe you can talk to the event organizer and get something set up yourself. You might even be able to find a store to provide a little prize support if you start looking around. Otherwise they can at least provide good opportunities to demo different games.

It sounds like the northeast might have a little game store drought too from the reports of some of the posters here.

Have you seen many of the stores here in Raleigh?

Even before GW lost quite a bit of its popularity, many of them are what could be deemed "hole in the wall" stores which are the same size--if not smaller!-- than the GW which just opened.

I know that last time I looked, Hangar 18 did not even have battalions/battleforces. They special ordered those.

Makes me miss Hobby Masters and the Pischkes all the more

Also:
Grot 6 is pretty much spot on. There's 40k games still going on, but there's more and more and more FOW going on. Which isn't bad, mind you...but isn't really what I want to play.

Especially when my first experience with it was when I was 16 and some TFG started being an obnoxious toolbag lauding the virtues of the Third Reich.

Population density.

% of that population that are gamers.

Culteral differences in different regions.

All of these combine to make some areas much less viable for game stores, GW or FLGS, as they have fewer gamers spending fewer dollars.

When I lived in Charleston, SC for a few years, GW was practically non existent. There were a few guys that went to school at the Citadel that played, but that was about it.

I'd imagaine its partially due to the sports climate down there. As someone who was born in SC and lived all over the South, you're brought up to be an athlete/fan. Obviously some kids stray away from that, but most everyone is a college football fan. Then there are those of us who have an equal love for wargaming and baseball at the same time.

Definitely a good point, Mik.

One big thing that I've noticed is that the nicer places to rent storefronts and the like just have no interest in gaming shops.

You end up with quite a few dingy places essentially which are "clubhouses" for the owners, which probably leads to the property management not wanting to do too much making these places a big storefront.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=&pIndex=7&aId=3500005&start=8&multiPageMode=true

directly from GWs website.

"SITE CRITERIA

Demographic Criteria: At least 500,000 total population within 10 miles with 33,000+ 14- to 24-year-old males. Median household income is at least $50,000.

Size: Target shop size of 600-1,200 square feet for a strip-mall or shopping-center depending on price per square foot. Preferably, shops will have a minimum frontage of 14 feet.

Signage: Must permit Games Workshop sign package.

Exposure: In close proximity to popular complementary tenants. Non-anchored freestanding buildings are acceptable if they have one or more desirable co-tenants. Typically strip mall and shopping center locations should be at major intersections or along major highways or main roads.

Complementary Tenants: In locations, we look for Activity Generators such as movie theatres, coffee shops, and restaurants, as well as big box retailers such as Wal-Mart, Target, and K-Mart. Targeted big box retailers such as Toys 'R' Us, Best Buy, CompUSA, Barnes & Noble, and Borders are very desirable. Trendy chains or unique experience restaurants, as well as youth-oriented junior tenants such as Aeropostale, Gadzooks, Hot Topic, Michael's Arts and Crafts Stores, Journey's, Old Navy, and Pacific Sunwear. We also note co-tenants such as electronics, video games, and music shops like Babbage's, EBX, GameStop, FYE, and Sam Goody are also acceptable.

Parking: There must be adequate parking for customers to spend 2 to 4 hours at the shop.

Rear Access: Back door service with easy access for delivery is desirable.

theunicorn wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=&pIndex=7&aId=3500005&start=8&multiPageMode=true

directly from GWs website.

"SITE CRITERIA

Demographic Criteria: At least 500,000 total population within 10 miles with 33,000+ 14- to 24-year-old males. Median household income is at least $50,000.

Size: Target shop size of 600-1,200 square feet for a strip-mall or shopping-center depending on price per square foot. Preferably, shops will have a minimum frontage of 14 feet.

Signage: Must permit Games Workshop sign package.

Exposure: In close proximity to popular complementary tenants. Non-anchored freestanding buildings are acceptable if they have one or more desirable co-tenants. Typically strip mall and shopping center locations should be at major intersections or along major highways or main roads.

Complementary Tenants: In locations, we look for Activity Generators such as movie theatres, coffee shops, and restaurants, as well as big box retailers such as Wal-Mart, Target, and K-Mart. Targeted big box retailers such as Toys 'R' Us, Best Buy, CompUSA, Barnes & Noble, and Borders are very desirable. Trendy chains or unique experience restaurants, as well as youth-oriented junior tenants such as Aeropostale, Gadzooks, Hot Topic, Michael's Arts and Crafts Stores, Journey's, Old Navy, and Pacific Sunwear. We also note co-tenants such as electronics, video games, and music shops like Babbage's, EBX, GameStop, FYE, and Sam Goody are also acceptable.

Parking: There must be adequate parking for customers to spend 2 to 4 hours at the shop.

Rear Access: Back door service with easy access for delivery is desirable.

Several of their complementary tenants, CompUSA and Borders, have gone out of business. Seems to be what happens to a GW store after a couple of years.

Kanluwen wrote:
Definitely a good point, Mik.

One big thing that I've noticed is that the nicer places to rent storefronts and the like just have no interest in gaming shops.

You end up with quite a few dingy places essentially which are "clubhouses" for the owners, which probably leads to the property management not wanting to do too much making these places a big storefront.

It is my impression that gaming shops do not earn enough money to pay for high end real estate. Thus, the ones that survive are generally in less expensive locations.