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Lynata wrote:As if Herodotus himself had written the scrpt.

More like Josef Goebbels.

It's not exactly standard movie material, but we have to keep in mind that this stuff is from another era.

1930s Nuremberg?

Phht, the Nazis were just copycats. They didn't even invent their own insigna nor their salute.

But they did manage to perfect fascism. And even though the Nazi state was utterly crushed in war, it's aesthetics and philosophy have managed to embed themselves in the culture of their conquerors. Hence 300.

This ends up being on-topic actually as 40k is a huge parody of fascism that people forgot was a parody. Just like poor Judge Dredd ...

Ultras are the posterboys because every other legion and its successors are flawed. Blood Angels, Raven Guard, Salamanders, Space Wolves, and Imperial Fists all have geneseed flaws, Dark Angels are pretty assholish TBH, the Iron Hands and White Scars disagree with the Imperial Cult in some pretty important areas (obsession with bionics, and not serving the emperor in death through being a dreadnought if you are crippled). This leaves the Ultramarines, and perhaps some Dark Angels successors who aren't donkey-caves to be seen as "the ideal space marine."

Because there are more chapters founded from them, their geneseed is the purest, and their Primarch wrote the Codex. That, and the fact that they aren't donkey-caves to people on the level that other chapters are. Salamanders and (depending on how you look at it) Space Wolves are probably nicer, and Raven Guard would probably stick with humans for longer if a battle went south by going guerrilla or something like that (IIRC Shrike stuck around on a planet for a long time helping out). Also, as said before, Ultras don't tend to have models other than their special characters, so they allow for greater diversity of custom chapters founded from them. As to the "ideal" space marine issue, for the 41st millennium, yes, but they use those filthy psykers.

Any box of grey plastic Space Marines are Ultramarines miniatures. They are the template, the basic model, the foundation upon which all of the "divergent" Chapters are based upon and compared to.

Easy to corrupt? No moreso than any other Chapter, and rather a lot less than most. Ultramarines movie? Guy was dead, daemon possessed his corpse. That's neither corruption nor falling to Chaos. The only fall that happened there was the one that killed him with gravity and rapid deceleration trauma.

Haha, it's funny cause I made a thread about my
concerns about the ultramarines having to much power in all their founding chapters. And the whole reason for dividing the
Legions was so one person could not hold that much power...

Annnywway... When you say "corrupted so easily" I think they are not any easier to corrupt then most other chapters.

The HH record the UM have?

The ultramarines main quality of their gene seed is that they are the purest of the Legions. They dont get corrupted easier then anyone else, but i did read a rumor that not a single Iron Hand has ever turned to Chaos, id like to think of this as true, just because their primarch died first from the traitor Fulgrim..

The Ultramarines aren't easily corrupted. It's just that the majority of chapters in the Imperial army are descended from the Ultramarines because they had the highest number at the end of the heresy. So it's not all that surprising that the majority of chapters that fall to Chaos are descended from the Ultramarines as well.

PS, @Frecklesonfire, at least one Iron Hand has fallen to Chaos, since the Grey Knights are the only chapter to never have had a marine fall.

Also, if someone is citing the ultramarines movie as an example of them being corrupted easily....

They weren't paying attention to the film.

A dude stealing/mimicking your body after you died falling out of a window of a multi storey cathedral which sat on top of a huge cliff does not mean you're corrupted...

And that's from someone who really gets annoyed by the ultrasmurfs.

As others said, Ultramarines are poster boys because of the more stable gene seed(which makes it harder to corrupt, I would think...) and because GW puts them out everywhere. IMO you might read about it more just because there is alot MORE out there ABOUT them. Also, if you really go off of SM lore by the book, there might be alot more chapters founded from the Ultramarines, but there are no more Ultramarines than any other chapter, because isn't there a set number allowed by the codex?

Ultramarines are the "Main" for 3 rasons :
1st: their primah created the codex
2nd: they are more than other chapters ( in the end of HH )
3rd : Guilimar is the next emperor ( i found it from SM codex)

Pada wrote:Ultramarines are the "Main" for 3 rasons :
1st: their primah created the codex
2nd: they are more than other chapters ( in the end of HH )
3rd : Guilimar is the next emperor ( i found it from SM codex)

I never paid rasins and my main is Ultra j/k but it was the first thing I thought of reading this.

Pada wrote:3rd : Guilimar is the next emperor ( i found it from SM codex)

Whaaaat? o_O

I knew Guilliman took over administration of the Imperium after the fallout of the HH, but I dont think he was trying to replace the Emperor, or become the next one...

Ronin wrote:

Pada wrote:3rd : Guilimar is the next emperor ( i found it from SM codex)

Whaaaat? o_O

I knew Guilliman took over administration of the Imperium after the fallout of the HH, but I dont think he was trying to replace the Emperor, or become the next one...

Considering it doesn't say anything like that in the codex at all you probably be right in that thought...

he took over the adminstration of the Imerioum.his planet system is feudal . but most of all is that every1 primah has a diferent purpouse right? i mean 1 was good to siege , other to defent ect. Guiliman was good at : making a good empire thats why ( whith also the fact that he is the only "near to alive" state) is going to be the next Emperor.maybe if Terra destroyed....

i dont said that it was his purpuse, but for the Imperium......

He was good at logistics.
It's not why he the only 'near to alive' primarch though he isn't the only one since there were some not confirmed dead.
At any rate he is as good as dead. If they lift the stasis on him he dies and he can't heal while in stasis...

but if they put him on the Throne?

Pada wrote:but if they put him on the Throne?

With that logic, any Primarch sitting his ass on the Golden Throne could be named Emperor. And putting Guilliman on the Throne wouldnt do anything to help heal him. If the Throne could do that, then we wouldnt have a corpse presiding over a million million planets.
Supposedly the Throne wasnt meant for the Emperor either, in his grand scheme of things, but for another of his sons. Think this was stated/implied (I forget, it's been a while) in one of the HH novels, A Thousand Sons. In that respect, the Golden Throne was never meant to be a symbol of office/emperorship over the dominion of the Imperium, but for another purpose altogether.

no , i was meaning about the healing powers of Thorne

Pada wrote:no , i was meaning about the healing powers of Thorne

Well then no, I dont think the Throne has any healing powers to speak of. Otherwise we wouldnt have a Carrion Emperor, and Malcador the Sigillite wouldnt have burnt himself out using the thing.

It doesn't.
It has life support but that's about it...
Even if it did have healing powers i'm not sure they would be able to plug him in quickly enough...
He was purportedly seconds from death when they put him into stasis.

ok then guilimar is lost....
but i had heard that the magrage is one of the most great in all aspects word. so Calgar could be the next Emperor? (as he is the most great Chapter master, governoer ect. One exaple is the campain vs Tau , which shown that most of the chapters do what Calgars instuct them ,because ultramarines fight in all the galaxy)

Of course, such an event would necessitate the disappearance/dissolution of the entire Imperial Senate first. There's a reason why none of the seats on the council is meant for a member of the Space Marines, regardless of how mighty or influential, and that reason is to be found in the Horus Heresy itself, and it's the same one that separated the Astartes from command over the Imperial Guard/Navy.

I think he'd go the way of Malcador on the throne.

Zweischneid wrote:Ultramarines certainly don't turn as frequent or quickly as Space Wolfes (see Huron's capture of the Wolf of Fenris) or IF descendants (see Soul Drinkers).

Um, what? Space Wolves are, aside from Grey Knights, the Marines least likely to turn to Chaos. The Canis Helix somehow makes them more resistant than others.

Frecklesonfire wrote:The ultramarines main quality of their gene seed is that they are the purest of the Legions.

Wrong. The Dark Angels have the purest geneseed. Or at least, the Dark Angel geneseed that gets tithed to the Imperium (Adeptus Terra, I think), is the purest of all the Legions/Chapters...

Pada wrote: ( whith also the fact that he is the only "near to alive" state)

Also wrong. Lion El-Jonson is alive and well, although kept in stasis in the Rock (a secret in-universe known only to the Watchers in the Dark, and I think the highest of the Dark Angels' Inner Circle).

As for the original question:

Ultramarines are the baseline for new Chapters because after the Heresy, the Ultramarines, who pretty much were kept out of the fight, were the most numerous, and thus had the most Second Founding Chapters based on them, a tradition that has pretty much remained unchanged in the 10K years hence.
As for why more Ultramarine (successors or not) fall, it's simple law of averages. There's more of them, so assuming most loyalist legions/chapters have the same chance of falling, the greater number will be from the Legion supplying the greater amount of geneseed.

Ladies(?) and gentlemen, do not feed the troll. This is obviously someone trying to disguise a rant and jump on the "OMG, I HATEZ THE ULTRAMAHREENS!" Bandwagon.
The facts have been given about why the Ultramarines are so well publicised and I think we can safely say that this will undoubtedly devolve into Ultramrine bashing before long.
I need to ask though, why rise to the point when the whole argument is based on a movie that the majority of the fans regard as non canon and quite possibly just plain awful?
I would like to add a decisive point as to why the Ultramarines are 'the main SM force'. Because someone has to be the most famous.

Bran Dawri wrote:Wrong. The Dark Angels have the purest geneseed. Or at least, the Dark Angel geneseed that gets tithed to the Imperium (Adeptus Terra, I think), is the purest of all the Legions/Chapters...

Partially wrong/true. Ultramarine's geneseed is the purest geneseed sample of all the Primarchs. That's why 2/3's of the Chapters running around are successor chapters to the Ultramarines, as on top of the fact the Ultramarines Legion had the most numbers at the end of the HH, in subsequent Foundings it is often the Ultramarine's geneseed that is used.
That being said, Dark Angels also have a 'pure' geneseed, but for some reason it is hardly ever used in the creation of new Chapters.

The reasonable explanation is the Ultramarines have the most numerous genetic decedents among current Space Marine chapters, and in inter-chapter relations your lineage is a huge deciding factor with regards to where loyalties lie. In addition, Gulliman was instrumental in reforming the Imperium after the Heresy.

Thew new 5th Edition fluff is the Ultramarines are so great that all Space Marines secretly want to be them.