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Mannahnin wrote:Deep Striking transports have more specific rules on page 36, which override those on page 124. The point of which is pretty clearly to allow pod lists to work.

That's not what I am taking from either page.

Deepstrike on page 36 indicates that when determining how many units can be placed in reserve, units that must arrive by deepstrike such as DPs, and any models inside are ignored. In order for an IC to join the unit you need to declare it as below.

Preparing reserves on page 124 second paragraph, pretty clearly indicates that you must specify if any ICs left in reserve, are joinging a unit, in which case they will arrive together. I repeat, 'any ICs left in reserve'. So if an IC is not placed in reserve, per the first paragraph of preparing reserves, it cannot then join a unit that is placed in reserve, such as the DP unit above.

For the very last time, read the rules in the spoiler tag or from the referenced pages. The exact rule from Page 36: "units that must be deployed by Deep Strike (along with any models embarked upon them) are ignored."

ICs are models. They get ignored if they are embarked on a Drop Pod. Please do not post further unless you have suggestions for the list. Feel free to send me a private message if you want to argue about it, but the rules are very clear.

you should take a page from this guy's book if you want to make sure people pay attention to the rules lol http://www.wimp.com/ebayseller/

I'm pretty sure space wolves aren't allowed to take drop pods either. I can't find their entry in my codex.

Are you sure you read the rules right?

Wouldnt work at the end of turn one you would auto lose if you have no models at all on the board.

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:Wouldnt work at the end of turn one you would auto lose if you have no models at all on the board.

RxGhost wrote:I'm pretty sure space wolves aren't allowed to take drop pods either. I can't find their entry in my codex.

Are you guys joking/trolling?

Seriously. I can't tell if this is just ignorance or not.

1) Yes, Space Wolves can take Drop Pods. Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, and Long Fangs all have Drop Pod as a transport option next to Rhinos and Razorbacks.

2) Half your Drop Pods rounding up automatically come in on Turn 1. The enemy would have to destroy 3 Drop Pods as they come in, likely along with the 30 or so power armored models embarked on them.

After som more thoughts on the list, I would say adding in Melta weapons on the CCS and possibly Alrahems unit would be a good buff. With the points left over, I'd give the Terminators fists as you'll need to kill 2+ save challengers and it would help out against high strength/toughness Monstrous Creatures.

no im not joking i read the rules? if you reserved everything you would have nothing on the board at the end of of turn one and in the rulebook it states if any player doesnt have any models on the board at the end of any game turn they lose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
drop pods come in on turn one dont they? oops lol.

I can't find drop pods anywhere in my support section in my Space Wolf codex, it might be my fault.

RxGhost wrote:I can't find drop pods anywhere in my support section in my Space Wolf codex, it might be my fault.

Try looking on pages 47 and 94, as well as your army entries in the back that list which units can take pods as a dedicated transport; that should clear it up.

And yes, at 2000pts, an opponent can easily destroy 3 pods and the marines that jump out on turn one, IF the opponent goes second and IF he places his pods in bad spots, which is probably another reason why longfangs are in pods; so they can deepstrike way in the back and behind cover while still being able to provide firepower.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:After som more thoughts on the list, I would say adding in Melta weapons on the CCS and possibly Alrahems unit would be a good buff. With the points left over, I'd give the Terminators fists as you'll need to kill 2+ save challengers and it would help out against high strength/toughness Monstrous Creatures.

For Monstrous Creatures I can always use Krak Grenades. S6 hits at WS4 aren't so tough a call for a 4 wound critter, and I hope to get it below that before it hits me.

The 2+ does concern me. At the same time, that Unwieldy really bothers me. I dislike the idea of striking lower than I4 but i suppose the really scary things already have higher than I4 anyways....

Currently have a Power Fist and Chain Fist modeled. Was going to rip 'em off for Wolf Claws but maybe not.

I had wondered how to take Guard as Allies and stay full reserve. Glad you figured it out! I probably will not do it but it's nice to know.

Sorry, but I am still not convinced.

You cannot just join ICs to the unit in the droppod so they benefit from the deepstrike special rules on page 36. You still need to follow the rules for putting ICs into reserve to do so.

Preparing reserves, second paragraph, page 124:

You must declare if any ICs, which have been held in reserve, are going to join a unit in reserve, in which case they will arrive together. So only those IC left in reserve can join the units in the droppods.

So, count up all units, ignoring that must start the game in reserve, ie droppods and dedicated passengers, and al rahem's platoon.. You still need to count the ICs, as they have not joined the unit in droppods yet. Why? Because they have not yet been placed in reserve. This count gives you [THREE UNITS.

cowmonaut wrote:Company Command Squad

Wolf Guard Battle Leader

Rune Priest

of which you can reserve HALF ROUNDING up. Half of three units, is 1.5, rounding up is 2. So you can put two of these into reserves, and any ICs that are reserved are now able to join the unit embarked in the droppod.

Barksdale, there are lots of threads on this in YMDC, you might want to head over that way... I can see where you are coming from but it is not correct...

It took me a while to get the hang of this, too, and I still need to check back on it to see what rules are more specific quite often. I think the OP and others could have been more polite in pointing this out, as well. But it's true, the army listed in the OP can full-reserve.

I can really understand people not finding or understanding the rule. As described above it is essentially a sentence just so drop pods work.

I was thinking, quite painful for me, you haven't set up as a drop pod army.
For me you need to land and melt a tank, then more runepriests with jaws to take out nasty nonmech. You should aim to really dent the enemy.
Also take 1 or 2 drop pods of just 5 grey hunters, this gives a cheap drop pod to land on objectives later on in the game, whilst making sure the more expensive drop pods land first turn.

I still can't even find the drop pod listing in my codex. Did they remove them from this newer one?

Really dude? Not a good troll (hint: people shouldn't suspect you are trolling if its a good troll). Sad really.

Anyways back on topic. I think this list will be my final. Unless someone has a great idea I can steal.

PRIMARY DETACHMENT

HEADQUARTERS
Wolf Lord (215 points)
with Terminator Armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Saga of the Bear

Rune Priest (100 points)
with Power Armor, Runic Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane

ELITE
Wolf Guard Pack (144 points)
Wolf Guard (1) with Terminator Armor, Combi-Plasma, Wolf Claw
Wolf Guard (1) with Terminator Armor, Combi-Plasma, Power Fist
Wolf Guard (1) with Terminator Armor, Combi-Plasma, Chain Fist

TROOP
Grey Hunter Pack (160 points)
Grey Hunter (6) with 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Wolf Standard, 1 Mark of the Wulfen
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

Grey Hunter Pack (175 points)
Grey Hunter (7) with 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Wolf Standard, 1 Mark of the Wulfen
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

Grey Hunter Pack (190 points)
Grey Hunter (8) with 1 Plasma Gun, 1 Wolf Standard, 1 Mark of the Wulfen
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

HEAVY SUPPORT
Long Fang Pack (195 points)
Long Fang (6) with 3 Multi-Melta, 2 Plasma Cannon
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

Long Fang Pack (175 points)
Long Fang (6) with 5 Missile Launchers
Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

TOTAL POINTS: 1354

ALLIED DETACHMENT

HEADQUARTERS
Company Command Squad (120 points)
Company Commander
Veterans (4) with Meltaguns
Astropath

TROOP
Infantry Platoon
- Platoon Command Squad (165 points)
Captain Al’Rahem with Plasma Pistol, Claw of the Desert Tigers
Heavy Weapons Team with Autocannon
Guardsmen (2)
Chimera with Multi-laser, Heavy flamer
- Infantry Squad (115 points)
Sergeant with Laspistol, Close-combat weapon
Heavy Weapons Team with Autocannon
Guardsmen (7)
Chimera with Multi-laser, Heavy flamer
- Infantry Squad (115 points)
Sergeant with Laspistol, Close-combat weapon
Heavy Weapons Team with Autocannon
Guardsmen (7)
Chimera with Multi-laser, Heavy flamer

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta Gunship Squadron (130 points)
Vendetta (1)

TOTAL POINTS: 645

TOTAL POINTS: 1999

Updated the main post.

@Cow

I like this list ! But let me ask a few questions. (about the rules! just kidding.)

Why the wolf lord and not a wolf priest? He's a 115 points cheaper, has a 4+ invulnerable and does a better job buffing the unit he's attached to. Just my personally preference. Or dump the Wolf Lord all together and get another squad of grey hunters. Of course, then you'd have to build another drop pod..

Short answer: Lack of Eternal Warrior and AP:2

I feel that at 2000 points I may need someone in my army that can dominate in a Challenge on a reliable basis.

4-5 WS:6 S:8 I:1 AP:2 Concussive attacks on a 3 Wound 2+/3++ Save model that is immune to Instant Death
versus
3-4 WS:5 S:6 I:4 AP:4 Concussive attacks on a 2 Wound 2+/4++ Save model that can be killed via Instant Death

Its a tough call. The benefits of Fearless and Preferred Enemy (coupled with Stealth) make me want to risk it. The Wolf Lord can go toe to toe with anything in the game and stand a good chance of coming out on top. The Wolf Priest would have issues against, say, a Hive Tyrant.

Argh! I was so sure I wanted the Wolf Lord but now you made me think about it again and I like the idea of opening up more points for more special/power weapons across my army.

Looks like it could be a very fun list to play! I like the current list more so than the older ones. What would you do with the points you free up from moving from WL to WP?

Here is a scenario. Suppose you put the wolf priest in a GH unit together with a wolf guard pack leader in terminator armor. If you get into CC and are challenged, you can use the WG pack leader to accept the challenge. You might be sacrificing your pack leader, but it will buy you one turn for your wolf priest to wreck the accompanying squad before he has to worry about the challenging character.

EDIT : Give that terminator a storm shield and the 3++ save might help him survive 2 turns in a challenge instead of just one. If you're worried about AP3 weapons, you can give the wolf priest some runic armor.

Also - and i'm not trying to hijack the thread - I know we disagree about wound overflow from challenges, but if this is a tournament list all of the major tourney's are FAQing wound overflow to be out. So this strategy should work.

What to do with extra points. It's a good question. At first I was thinking about a unit of 6 Long Fangs with 5 Heavy Bolters - 115 points exactly. But that's not enough to get them a drop pod. Then I was thinking that you should fill up your GH's and maybe add another squad.

With 115 points I could:

1) Add another Grey Hunter model to the unit the Wolf Priest joins and give each of the Grey Hunter units a Power Weapon (I have 3 with Swords and 2 with Axes modeled currently). That still leaves me 55 points.

2) I could add a 3rd Infantry Squad for Platoon Al'Rahem

3) I could replace the Wolf Guard armed with a Combi-Plasma/Wolf Claw with one armed with an Assault Cannon/Power Sword (its what he's modeled with and I'm out of axes) and grab two naked Wolf Guard for the Long Fangs. That still leaves me 15 points.

4) Add Plasma/Melta to the IG Infantry Platoon and Krak Grenades.

If I went with Option 1 I'd consider Runic Armor for both HQs, Sagas, and Krak Grenades for the IG. Obviously can't afford all of them but those are the immediate purchases that spring to mind. With Option 3 I'd probably do the Krak Grenades for the Infantry Platoon.

Just to say you can now take leman russes and termy squads with 2 heavy weapons again due to allies rules, though not at the same time.

After consideration, I think I'm going to stick with the Wolf Lord. Opening up more points is nice. Its great to buff up the rest of my army. But I really think Challenges will play an important part in game play and my Wolf Lord is the only thing that can stand up to the likes of Vect and other combat nasties.

If I did ditch him I would instead bring:

1. A Wolf Priest w/ Runic Armor, Saga of the Hunter
2. An Officer of the Fleet
3. 2 Power Axes and 1 Power Sword for my Grey Hunters (and shift a Grey Hunter to the smaller squad from the larger)
4. Krak Grenades for each Infantry Squad (not the Platoon Command Squad)

Why is the company command squad not in a chimera? Or am I missing something there?

You are missing that the CCS is going to ride in the Vendetta ^^

The original post is a bit long so I don't blame you for skimming it or missing something like that. I'm not sure if I restated that part when i clarified the list. If you want to argue about me being able to I suggest you read it in detail though.

No, I just want to copy your idea and was wondering why they were walking on from reserve (now I see their ride, thanks ).

I will probably not use a Vendetta, but the rest of the IG I love! Will think it over...

No worries, copy away! I always loved Captain Al'rahem so I wanted to find a way to make use of him.

I think Allies are a clever way for GW to make more money. There are so many ideas I've had that didn't work as full armies but would work just fine as Allies... I think my collection will start expanding.

Agreed, it's really smart of them, and I like it too, so win win!