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You can't hood fortune?

bagtagger wrote:You can't hood fortune?

Not anymore!

See page 68 of the new rulebook. Psy Hoods only allow a psyker to take the 'Deny the Witch' test instead of a targeted unit. But if a friendly unit isn't targeted by a power, then the psychic hood does nothing.

I thought that was just on top of what the codex says a psy hood does and omg you're right the faqs say refer to the rule book now for the hood. That's a huge change I hadn't noticed before.

yakface wrote:

Also you guys are complaining about the wound allocation and yes that one combo sucks but one nob hidden in 30 boys was BS too. so was 10 nobs all armed differently.

I don't think anyone would ever say that the 5th edition wound allocation rules didn't have huge gaping issues. However, it doesn't seem like you've grasped quite how bad the new system is either. A Nob Biker squad doesn't even need to be differently armed now, they can just pass the wounds around using the 'look out sir' rules. And the system, as pointed out, totally allows a model getting a 2+ re-rollable save to take every single wound inflicted by a squad of 30 boys, thereby completely negating all those boys ability to do *anything* in combat against that unit.

Keep in mind that the game developers have openly said that this is an error/misinterpretation by the community, that "units of characters" don't exist, and that Nobs, Paladins, Wolf Guard, etc. are only characters when leading squads.

Fetterkey wrote:
Keep in mind that the game developers have openly said that this is an error/misinterpretation by the community, that "units of characters" don't exist, and that Nobs, Paladins, Wolf Guard, etc. are only characters when leading squads.

I'd love for that to be the case, do you have a link for the post where someone said that ( I totally want to read more)?

If that is the case, it's just really strange because they've labled paladins as characters and paladins are never squad leaders.

But even if that is true, its not really going to change anything because people just put independent characters at the front of the units to pass the wounds around anyway (it's much more reliable that way).

The source was someone who had talked to the designers at the Design Studio Open Day a week or so back-- I think this Warseer thread has most of the relevant information.

As for Paladins, I suppose the intent there was for Paladins to be characters only when they're solo operatives, but I agree that it's weird.

I just tought of something but didn't know if it'd actually work but what if I shot a few mindstrike missles into the harlistar. would that kill the farseer too?

I'm not sure how those things work now. Do I still have to hit the psyker or just the unit now? And does ghosthelm still work on it?

sudojoe wrote:I just tought of something but didn't know if it'd actually work but what if I shot a few mindstrike missles into the harlistar. would that kill the farseer too?

I'm not sure how those things work now. Do I still have to hit the psyker or just the unit now? And does ghosthelm still work on it?

Yeah, Mindstrike missiles will nuke the Shadowseer pretty much automatically. The Farseer will still get its Ghosthelm 'save' though.

But the thing about this deathstar or any deathstar build around comboing special abilities from different characters is that there does seem to be counters to them one way or another, so while they may be super-deadly against a certain army in a specific game, it will be interesting to see how they actually perform in tournaments where they'll have to face a bunch of different army types, one of which will likely contain such a counter.

If I had to place my money down ahead of time I'd put it on a combo army like this played by a good player as the odds-on favorite to win a tournament, although I don't think you can ever count out a more balanced army (also played by a good player, of course).

So I'm not saying that these units will make the tournament scene uncompetitive, but rather that there will be a HUGE gulf between casual players using basically their 5th edition armies with perhaps a few tweaks for 6th edition, and those guys rolling-up with these power combo units.

After the more casual players get there faces stomped by armies like this, you have to wonder if you won't see tournament attendance drop off a bit, as some people may not be interested in building gimmicky armies like this in order to keep up with the joneses.

Not having played vs the Harliestar, my opinion means slightly less than those that have. However, here's a few problems i see that keep this from being an auto-win army --

1.) The harlie-star has units from codex: Eldar and D. Eldar - this means it may never embark upon vehicles when fully formed, and is therefore stuck at infantry speed.
2.) A walking harlie-star has only shuriken pistols for ranged threat.
3.) Aside from the farseer potentially having a shining spear, how does this unit deal with mechanized armies?
4.) In 5/6 of games the unit will not be able to aid in victory w objectives, unless the warlord gets a '6' on personal traits.

The 2++ with a re-roll is inevitably hard (impossible?) to crack, so the unit will have survivability when the opponent is facing it at the proper formation. However, as mentioned before it is slow so a mechanized force will be able to skirt around it.

Also keep in mind that in CC wounds are allocated to models in B2B with who ever is striking at that initiative - when the shadowfield archon kills models, remove those in b2b with him and pile-in with harlequins. That way every wound inflicted in CC will be towards 5++ with a re-roll instead of 2++.

While i agree it's a tough unit i don't think this is the combo that will break tournaments. It's like nob bikerz once were - stunning at first in their survivability and power in CC, then once figured out just became another tough unit but nothing special. Same will go here, except the player has to pay a huge tax away from the primary detachment to do it.

Zid wrote:These lists and fliers have sucked what little fun I gained from 40k completely out... Guess that's why I jumped ship for other games lol. Great rep reece!

There seems to a lot of doom and gloom in this thread! I would normally write this off as typical forum winging but here it is being posted by people whose opinion I have come to respect so I am a little more concerned.

I still don’t see it as all that bad though. Surely an IG army would be able to cope with this Deathstar easily- search light the unit (does this negate the shrouding?) and drop barrage on it so its no different to shooting fortuned Harlies. Its conceivable that IG could go first and bombard the unfortuned unit.
Mobile shooty units should also be able to position themselves so they are hitting the clowns, either by using terrain/models to limit their LOS or attacking from behind.
Deepstriking shooty units would surley be able to land in a position to pick off some harlies- Dakka Gants, Deathmarks, Sternguard, Horrors, ect. Flyers should be able to position themselves for shots and Valks and night scythes can drop units in a position to hit clowns.

CC seems more harsh but different Initiative values can be used to your advantage. If the Archons have higher I then remove models in base to base with them so that the Harlies pile in to base to base and try to avoid piling into the Archon in your I step. Or if you have mixed Initiative in your unit the Archons can only take wounds from the I step of the model in base to base. But not many units will put up a fight against Vect and Harlies!

Some lists (eg Tau gunline) will not be able to cope well with this but you wont win a tournament if some of your other opponents have counters to your deathstar. I actually think this type of unit could be good for the game as it will make people take advantage of directional fire and include more mobile shooting thus making the movement phase more tactical and interesting.

As for flyer spam, I’m not convinced. Flyers seem to have a limited amount of damage potential due to only getting to shoot 3 times in most games and are not able to control the board. A green tide could occupy the objectives and weather the damage from most flyers to win the game. Once again being able to blow most elite armies off the table is no good if you loose your games against hordes that can control the board. I also think that as more armies get flyers and skyfire units this will be less of an issue.


Keep hope alive!

What about units with jump packs against the harlistar. Seems like with the initiative 10 attacks you could put them all on the harlequins, probably kill a good amount of them and then seriously decrease the amaze output of the unit.

Now I might be crazy but couldn't you pin the characters in with one unit and charge a second unit into these types of squads? Thus leaving your second unit to beat the hell out of the models closest to them in CC?

Might not be easy but especially when the unit has limited shooting this should be doable.

Reecius wrote:Thanks for the input, guys! It's much appreciated.



@Thanatos

We discussed that one, but we thought about the weaknesses: No hitting power from the Wraithguard in HtH, no Hit and Run (getting tar pitted is a big concern for something so expensive), no invul in HtH (other Deathstars will much you). But, if you gear it up as a Shooty Deathstar primarily (give them Maugan Ra or Fuegan) then I think you are onto something, and have it charge secondarily. Not a bad answer to Flyers either (if you can get close) as even with snap shot, the Wraith Cannons will drop a flyer.

It is a good idea, I think it can work, but you would want to alter it somewhat, I think to get the most out of it.

Actually... a list that I am building around this is to use Tau as an ally...

Divination is the key though...

BS on Overwatch
4+ invul

The only thing in the Power that doesn't really work is the 3 dice for reserves

Take
10 wraithguard w/ warlock - Conceal
Eldrad - Divination
Fortuneseer
Tau Commander w/ 2+ save, FnP, Hit and Run, Black Sun Filter, and either a Plasma Rifle or a Airburst Frag Launcher

Give TONS of options and a rather large go no go bubble of threat.

yakface wrote:

So I'm not saying that these units will make the tournament scene uncompetitive, but rather that there will be a HUGE gulf between casual players using basically their 5th edition armies with perhaps a few tweaks for 6th edition, and those guys rolling-up with these power combo units.

After the more casual players get there faces stomped by armies like this, you have to wonder if you won't see tournament attendance drop off a bit, as some people may not be interested in building gimmicky armies like this in order to keep up with the joneses.

This. I have no interest in building fluff heresy gimmicky armies. I have a hard enough time not getting tabled by normal lists...

yakface wrote:
So I'm not saying that these units will make the tournament scene uncompetitive, but rather that there will be a HUGE gulf between casual players using basically their 5th edition armies with perhaps a few tweaks for 6th edition, and those guys rolling-up with these power combo units.

After the more casual players get there faces stomped by armies like this, you have to wonder if you won't see tournament attendance drop off a bit, as some people may not be interested in building gimmicky armies like this in order to keep up with the joneses.

Has it really been that different in the past? Even in 5th which some people now apparently reminisce with fondness (which is a HUGE contrast to enormous nerd rage present when that edition surfaced), if you put a casual player against Nob Biker or Draigowing or some other deathstar, casual players had generally little to no way to hurt those units except by luck. In fact, with my casual Tau list, I'd much rather face a 6th edition Dark Harliestar than 5th edition Nob Bikers. At least I have few rounds to shoot them at first, against Bikerz I had one round at best. Sure, I can understand the complaint that with all the mixed save rerolls and/or LOS gimmickry they're slow & annoying to both play and play against.

@Thread

I think a LOT of people are missing the point. We're not saying the Dark Harliestar is unbeatable or an auto-win army (we kill it in a lot of our bat reps) but that it is an example of how stupid the wound allocation and USR rules can make the game. We're not mad because we think the unit itself is broken (although it is) but that the rules allow this kind of thing to happen.

I just don't see how they could have possibly thought this would be fun? It's not even logical that in a giant combat, one guy takes EVERY SINGLE HIT? That isn't even possible, what, every guy lines up and takes turns hitting the lead character? It is seriously idiotic. And a LOT of armies can do this, without allies. A reroll 2+ is easy to get now, and why it is in there, I just don't get.

Our concern is that it makes the game less fun to play.

@bagtagger

No offense man, but I think you just aren't grasping how these rules work right now. Wound Allocation is HORRIBLE when used the way we have been using (and expect people to do it as why wouldn't you?). It makes damn near invincible units. It makes 5th ed wound allocation look like a work of beauty in comparison.

@Yak

You said it, as usual, better than I did.

These rules mean that the skilled players will overpower the casual players SO MUCH, that it will not be an enjoyable game for either player. That is why we we are questioning if we should bring them or not.

@Backfire

This ties in to what we said above. You are right, there were really powerful combos in 5th, but they seriously don't hold a candle to what is possible now. Draigowing and Nob Bikers were rough in 5th, but they are BETTER now. Yeah, and cheaper, too.

The power lists got so much more powerful that they will dominate casual lists unless piloted by an incredibly skilled player.

@Pony Law

Again, people aren't understanding wound allocation. So long as one of the Tanking characters is in B2B with ANY model striking at a certain initiative, then ALL of the attacks at that I step can be allocated to him.

I don't mean to be mean, sorry if I come across that way, you could use that to get around the Tank characters with proper positioning. Hammer of Wraith we've found, is damn near useless though. And, a Jumper squad might kill a Harlie or two doing this, but then would get wiped out in combat. Not a good exchange at all.

@Hulk

That can, and does work. But, hahaha, Harlies by themselves, particularly Fortuned, are no push over. You would need two very powerful units to pull this off, but you have the right idea.

Again though, we aren't saying this unit is unbeatable, just an example of a super bad rule.

@Moosatronic Warrior

You are right, but staying positive in the face of incredibly terribad rules is tough.

@Fetterkey

Be that as it may, unless they FAQ it out, the rules is the rule. This is the game. I genuinely hope you are right and they change it, but that is a core game mechanic being changed in an FAQ, that is pretty big.

Also, we were looking into the rule about the Emplaced gun on a Bastion, it can be targeted separately, unfortunately. It won't last against an Airforce.

Hmm, I disagree with that interpretation regarding the emplaced gun on the Bastion. This is an example of really sloppy rules writing on GW's part, because they use the term "gun emplacement" and "emplaced gun" interchangeably at some points. However, page 97 makes it clear that all the weapons on Bastions or Fortresses of Redemption are "emplaced weapons," despite some of them being referred to as "gun emplacements" at other points.

Regardless of this confusion, though, the important thing to note here is that the rules for gun emplacements on the battlefield are different from the rules for gun emplacements on buildings. While gun emplacements deployed on the field as "battlefield debris" can indeed be targeted separately, there is nothing to indicate that emplaced guns on buildings are subject to these rules or can be targeted in this fashion.

Reecius wrote:
@Backfire

This ties in to what we said above. You are right, there were really powerful combos in 5th, but they seriously don't hold a candle to what is possible now. Draigowing and Nob Bikers were rough in 5th, but they are BETTER now. Yeah, and cheaper, too.

My point is rather that previously almost unkillable units became even more unkillable, yes, but is this really so big meta change? So they are even more unkillable, but they are still bound by same limitations why Deathstars, ultimately, did not dominate 5th Edition.

Fetterkey wrote:Hmm, I disagree with that interpretation regarding the emplaced gun on the Bastion. This is an example of really sloppy rules writing on GW's part, because they use the term "gun emplacement" and "emplaced gun" interchangeably at some points. However, page 97 makes it clear that all the weapons on Bastions or Fortresses of Redemption are "emplaced weapons," despite some of them being referred to as "gun emplacements" at other points.

Regardless of this confusion, though, the important thing to note here is that the rules for gun emplacements on the battlefield are different from the rules for gun emplacements on buildings. While gun emplacements deployed on the field as "battlefield debris" can indeed be targeted separately, there is nothing to indicate that emplaced guns on buildings are subject to these rules or can be targeted in this fashion.

It definitely is very confusing writing the way they have gun emplacements and emplaced weapons, however I don't think most people will end up agreeing with your assessment. The upgrade option for the Bastion clearly says that it is a 'gun emplacement' and there are rules for 'gun emplacements' on page 105 that clearly state that they can be destroyed.

Note that this is different from the Fortress of Redemption which says that it just has an 'emplaced' missile silo & an 'emplaced' twin-linked Icarus Lascannon (pg 117). The Bastion and the Aegis line both say that you are buying a 'gun emplacement' with XXX weapon on it.

So between the casually written (IMHO) example given on page 97 and the precise wording in the actual fortification datasheets, I'll personally err on the side of the datasheet every day of the week, and I'm guessing most other people will too.

@Yak

That is exactly how we read it, too.

Granted, it's confusing, but I think that there isn't much case to be made for it NOT being targetable.

@Backfire

They were killable in 5th.

You stated the answer in your question. Dathstars are now not what they were.

In 5th ed, you could kill Nob Bikers and Paladins with massed strength 8 or making them run away, etc. There were a lot of ways to handle them.

Now, they are a LOT harder to kill. Paladins with Draigo are Fearless, which is huge, and Nob Bikers will rally easily even if you do get them to run away (plus combo them with Ghaz to get around the problem entirely) and strength 8 bounces off of Nob Bikers. Plus, FNP got better for models like this, making them even tougher.

What that all means is that these units can literally just be rammed down the other player's throat with very little skill and be more effective than they were. What few weaknesses they did have, have been shored up making them juggernauts.

Are they beatable? Yes. But you need the right tools to do it. Not a lot of armies have those tools.

So, we are going to see even more of a rock, paper, scissors environment than before, which isn't super fun. The extreme lists will dominate "normal" armies unless they have the tools to take them on, in which case the extreme armies stand a good chance of getting rolled.

I have faith the balanced list will still be the best tool, but ONLY if you are an extremely knowledgeable and skilled player. It is now harder to win with a balanced list than ever before.

yakface wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Hmm, I disagree with that interpretation regarding the emplaced gun on the Bastion. This is an example of really sloppy rules writing on GW's part, because they use the term "gun emplacement" and "emplaced gun" interchangeably at some points. However, page 97 makes it clear that all the weapons on Bastions or Fortresses of Redemption are "emplaced weapons," despite some of them being referred to as "gun emplacements" at other points.

Regardless of this confusion, though, the important thing to note here is that the rules for gun emplacements on the battlefield are different from the rules for gun emplacements on buildings. While gun emplacements deployed on the field as "battlefield debris" can indeed be targeted separately, there is nothing to indicate that emplaced guns on buildings are subject to these rules or can be targeted in this fashion.

It definitely is very confusing writing the way they have gun emplacements and emplaced weapons, however I don't think most people will end up agreeing with your assessment. The upgrade option for the Bastion clearly says that it is a 'gun emplacement' and there are rules for 'gun emplacements' on page 105 that clearly state that they can be destroyed.

Note that this is different from the Fortress of Redemption which says that it just has an 'emplaced' missile silo & an 'emplaced' twin-linked Icarus Lascannon (pg 117). The Bastion and the Aegis line both say that you are buying a 'gun emplacement' with XXX weapon on it.

So between the casually written (IMHO) example given on page 97 and the precise wording in the actual fortification datasheets, I'll personally err on the side of the datasheet every day of the week, and I'm guessing most other people will too.

I dunno. There's no precedent anywhere in the book for any weapons on buildings being "gun emplacements" in the battlefield debris sense, and I think the intent is pretty clear from page 97, where there is an actual picture of the kit with the gun option on it and it is clearly described as an emplaced gun. Note that the Fortress of Redemption pictured on page 97 has the heavy bolter upgrades-- referred to as "emplaced" rather than "gun emplacements" in the entry-- and these are also referred to as emplaced guns. It seems clear to me that GW is using the terms interchangeably and that gun emplacements on buildings are emplaced guns, not battlefield debris gun emplacements. I do see your interpretation but I'm really not sure that it's the more logical one, especially in the face of the very explicit example on page 97.

Backfire wrote:
My point is rather that previously almost unkillable units became even more unkillable, yes, but is this really so big meta change? So they are even more unkillable, but they are still bound by same limitations why Deathstars, ultimately, did not dominate 5th Edition.

My response to this would be that part of the reason that these Deathstar units weren't completely dominating was exactly the fact that there was stuff that could obliterate them out there and then you're looking at investing too much of your army's points into a single unit. When that unit becomes MUCH more durable in 6th edition, then all of a sudden it is a pretty big change in how useful the unit is, and then factor in that you can take a lot of these units in a bunch of different army types thanks to allies, and now it may well be that the defacto army lists for tournament winners all contain a super-combo deathstar unit of some sort.

The only things I see Deathstars having lost in 6th edition is that:

• They cannot score more than one objective (assuming they're a troops choice like Paladins with Draigo), although they can still deny multiple objectives as far as I can tell from the rules.
• Those that are slow are more susceptible to being outflanked and exposed by faster units (assuming their durability is dependent on one or more units at the front of the unit) and they themselves being slow will have a hard time outflanking other units to maximize their firepower.
• The mission and deployment types tend to put a premium on mobility, which meany Deathstars don't have (although many do, such as Nob Bikers, Thunderwolves, Jetbike Seer Councils, etc).
• The random charge distance means they won't always get into combat when you want them to.


But on the flipside, what have they gained?

• Extreme durability boost both in shooting and in close combat as wounds tend to usually go onto the absolute toughest model.
• Increased precision of wound spreading around the unit, especially if an IC is the closest model.
• In many cases, the ability to utilize precision shots/strikes with every single model in the unit (Nobs, Paladins, Warlocks, etc).
• Drastically reduced psychic defense across the entire game (except for Space Wolves & Eldar).
• The ability to both pass most special rules from a joined IC onto his unit AND to combine two characters from different codexes together in order to combo those rules together. In many cases these combos alleviate the huge weaknesses that the unit previously had (like being able to pass Fearlessness onto a deathstar unit whose main weakness was being forced to run off the table).


Therefore, overall I do think there has been a huge boost in the nastiness of these units. Again, this is not to say they will completely rule the day, but they are worse than before and I completely agree with Reece that they will be much, much more frustrating for the uninitiated.

For example, in 5th edition if you were playing against a Paladin Deathstar you could fire everything you had in your army at the Paladins, and while you were unlikely to kill anyone off the bat, you would still see wounds start to creep into the unit and eventually enough firepower would start to bring them down...you'd still probably lose the game, but you could see the impact of your shooting. This type of thing was still very frustrating to players who had more balanced fluffy armies in tournaments, though (I'd hear it all the time about how stupid it was that they could spread the wounds around to avoid taking casualties).

Now in 6th edition, if you're facing a Deathstar with a 2+ re-rollable save model in the front, you can fire an entire opposing army's worth of shooting at this unit and its not unreasonable to not see a single successful wound caused on the unit at the end of the turn. And with something like Fateweaver running around with Terminators, even outflanking them is going to not do all that much. So if you think that people who aren't super-hardcore into the game got frustrated when their shooting was fairly ineffectual, just wait until they run into the situation where their shooting is completely ineffectual and that Deathstar unit simply walks across the table and crushes their entire army without really anything they can do about it with the models they paid the exact same points to put onto the table.

So while the hardcore tournament players will adapt and bring their own nasty combos to counter other combos, I'm afraid the more casual players will simply be driven to give up on the tournament scene. But only time will tell...

How is vect bennifiting from fortune? The rule says it can only work on eldar units and vect is not an eldar unit.

When joined to an Eldar unit, he's part of an Eldar unit. Same reason if a Farseer joins a unit of Wyches, he himself can't benefit from Fortune; because he's part of a DE unit. This is just part of how ICs work (and have always worked); when an IC is joined to a squad he functions as a member of that unit except where specified otherwise.

Dawnofthedoug wrote:How is vect bennifiting from fortune? The rule says it can only work on eldar units and vect is not an eldar unit.

The Harlequins are an Eldar unit and Fortune is cast on them. Vect is an IC joining that unit (as he is a battle brother) and per the IC joining a unit rules on page 39, he becomes part of that unit and benefits from any ongoing abilities they have.

Ok, here's the deal about wether or not Dark Eldar count as Eldar.

Space Marines are Space Marines...but so are Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, etc.

Eldar are Eldar...And so are Dark Eldar, Corsair Eldar and Exodite Eldar.

The term Eldar refers to the race as a whole, just as the term Space Marine refers to the Adeptus Astartes as a whole.

That's why their powers work on them. They ARE eldar, just with a different alignment.

I feel like you guys are getting the responses you are because you keep claiming that you reports are meant to inform whats broken, but I almost feel it is condescending, I think we all realize the implications of the rules 6th brought and in general are trying to find reasonable solutions. Ranting on whats obviously broken to no end just gets tired after a while. I think there are many, much more annoying lists out there and I think it just takes a little faith in the community to bring lists they enjoy playing. If in 6 months to a year the meta is all the same silly trash then I would say you have a leg to stand on but for feths sake its not been a single month.

I happen to believe as new codexes are released it will make more sense. Currently players are rellying on eldar and demons for most of the broken allied builds I have come across. Thats 2 of the most outdated books, wait a year when skyfire is rampant and fortune and fateweaver are fond memories of a past edition and things will make a lot more sense.

lastly if you think the format is busted why not just continue to run 5th edition events. If the format is so not enjoyable and broken then surely others will agree and attend. Gamers will play 5th in addition to 6th anyway, don't believe me then just google Pathfinder.

On a personal note I thought 5th was just as pitiful in regard to competitive play. Same three top tiered lists rinsed and reapplied until all flavor was lacking. At least now it is possible to have my ass handed to me by 30 UNIQUE power-gamed armies.

Again, not trying to be rude just trying to give you folks perspective from another gamer.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Ok, here's the deal about wether or not Dark Eldar count as Eldar.

Space Marines are Space Marines...but so are Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, etc.

Eldar are Eldar...And so are Dark Eldar, Corsair Eldar and Exodite Eldar.

The term Eldar refers to the race as a whole, just as the term Space Marine refers to the Adeptus Astartes as a whole.

That's why their powers work on them. They ARE eldar, just with a different alignment.

This is has been debated to death and is taking the rules VERY fluffwise. It is very obvious that they meant for "Eldar" to mean units in "Codex Eldar". If you were to ask any event if you can cast eldar powers on Dark Eldar your would likely quickly get denied as the intention is clear.

that being said, as Yak said the casting limitation for Fortune is that the power must be cast on and Eldar unit. ICs attach to a unit and become part of it, therefor if you can the power on a unit that the IC is a part of he gains the benfits (or ill effects) of the power. There is no limitation on if an attached member can use the benfits of fortune, just merely the targeting restriction.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:Ok, here's the deal about wether or not Dark Eldar count as Eldar.

Space Marines are Space Marines...but so are Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, etc.

Eldar are Eldar...And so are Dark Eldar, Corsair Eldar and Exodite Eldar.

The term Eldar refers to the race as a whole, just as the term Space Marine refers to the Adeptus Astartes as a whole.

That's why their powers work on them. They ARE eldar, just with a different alignment.

This is not true.

Eldar are Eldar and Dark Eldar are Dark Eldar. So if the rules refer to an Eldar unit, that would mean regular old Craftworld Eldar.

However, as has been pointed out, you are free to Fortune an Eldar unit and then have a DE IC join that unit to benefit from the power.

Can the characters pass wounds off using LOS after failing their 2++ save? If so, I think I'm starting to get it...