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40k-noob wrote:

lucasbuffalo wrote:So I'm a bit confused, is Lamprey's Bite just how they attack, or is it an optional attack instead of their normal attacks?

Lamprey's bite = melee attack
Slashing attack = "fly over" attack (think Necron catacomb command barge)

Right, so they get 3 base, 4 on the charge S5 AP2 attacks at I4? That's...sexy.

lucasbuffalo wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

lucasbuffalo wrote:So I'm a bit confused, is Lamprey's Bite just how they attack, or is it an optional attack instead of their normal attacks?

Lamprey's bite = melee attack
Slashing attack = "fly over" attack (think Necron catacomb command barge)

Right, so they get 3 base, 4 on the charge S5 AP2 attacks at I4? That's...sexy.

Dont forget since it has amorbane they will still chew through vechals like as the old ones its just they effective against everything now....except for av14 really even with amorbane you need to roll a 9 with the dice to glance with them which was kind of a nerf since before it was slightly easier to pen after you hit.

Cyvash wrote:Dont forget since it has amorbane they will still chew through vechals like as the old ones its just they effective against everything now....except for av14 really even with amorbane you need to roll a 9 with the dice to glance with them which was kind of a nerf since before it was slightly easier to pen after you hit.

Yes. But before it was one attack per screamer. Hitting on 4's or 6's if the vehicle moved.

Now, it is 4 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3's no matter how fast it moved. So, while your chance to pen went down significantly, the number of chance to pen went up dramatically as well. Overall, I would say you have a better chance of destroying vehicles that moved. And, they are much better in close combat against normal things now.

I am already regretting giving away three of my screamers. At least I have 7 left....

Green is Best! wrote:

Cyvash wrote:Yes. But before it was one attack per screamer. Hitting on 4's or 6's if the vehicle moved.

Now, it is 4 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3's no matter how fast it moved. So, while your chance to pen went down significantly, the number of chance to pen went up dramatically as well. Overall, I would say you have a better chance of destroying vehicles that moved. And, they are much better in close combat against normal things now.

I am already regretting giving away three of my screamers. At least I have 7 left....

A vehicle that did not move in their movement phase is considered to have WS0, which is automatically hit in CC. Just an FYI.

On the subject of the invulnerable save I read it slightly differently.

Let it be said that this isn't how I'm playing it or how I think it is intended to be played but I think it might be RAW.

All daemons in the codex have the daemon special rule which the codex tells us gives them 4 rules to follow: fearless, Invulnerable, Daemonic assault, daemonic rivalry.
The daemon FAQ adds Fear to this list but it doesn't state that units now follow the daemon rule from the rulebook instead (or as well as) the one from the codex, if it is assumed they just use both sets of rules then why add fear to the codex rules.

So daemons in the WD update have the Daemon rule and should follow the same rules that are in the codex, the Invulnerable rule states that they have an invulnerable save equal to their save characteristic, nowhere does it state that they get at least a 5++.

Most people seem to think that they follow the Daemon rule from the new rulebook but you can't mix and match different parts of different rules from the codex and rulebook, if you think that you use the daemon rule from the rulebook then they don't get eternal warrior and they aren't required to deepstrike as those rules are only found in the daemon rule from the codex.

I think that they should follow the codex rules and have an invulnerable save of 4++, I'm playing it at the minute that they get a 5++ to avoid long and tedious arguments that have no actual answer.
I'm hoping for an FAQ pretty sharpish as they also got the initiative value of one of the alluresses wrong in one stat line out of the six in the booklet, proofreading FTW!

The units that have been replaced in the mini dex are self contained. you have no permission to look at the old entry - its been errata'ed out, essentially. So if the entry does not specify 4++, they dont get a 4++

Well, if Wisdom is right then they get no armor or invulnerable save at all since the rule says in the codex that the invulnerable save they get is the save on their profile, and since the save in the new updated profile is "-" and they have no armor save then they get no save at all, except cover when appropriate. That can't be right.

No what the codex says is that their definition of daemon is a. In addition they have the daemon usr from the brb, which is b. Since they do not conflict there is no need to take one over the other. They compliment each other. If they have a save on their profile it is that. If not, its 5+.

"Daemon" is one of the "Special" (i.e., USR) rules in the big rulebook: all daemons get a 5+ invulnerable save.

So if the daemon codex confers a different value (e.g., for Horrors and Tz-marked Princes/Heralds), that value holds. (Codex specificity trumps general rulebook.) Otherwise, the general rule holds.

So Horrors, Tz Heralds, Tz Princes get 4+. And since the new rules replace codex rules for Screamers and Flamers, they get 5+.

SLightly off topic, but I know for the Avatar of Khaine, the FAQ says that he has the Daemon rule but has a 4+ Invuln instead of the usual 5+.

Happyjew wrote:SLightly off topic, but I know for the Avatar of Khaine, the FAQ says that he has the Daemon rule but has a 4+ Invuln instead of the usual 5+.

The thing you get because of it is the new fear special rule.

So everyone keeps mentioning vehicles, but aren't these now Terminator Slayers?

lucasbuffalo wrote:So everyone keeps mentioning vehicles, but aren't these now Terminator Slayers?

People only fight terminators on threads about things going from AP3 to AP2

lucasbuffalo wrote:So everyone keeps mentioning vehicles, but aren't these now Terminator Slayers?

They are everything killers. Very frightening.