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So I just picked up the new White Dwarf 391...

Question #1: I noticed that the Daemons in the update do not have a save value, leading me to believe they follow the rule for Daemons on CRB which means they all have 5+ invulnerable saves (even the Tzeentch ones ... ...), does this sound correct? Secondly, if the previous question is correct, are all daemons supposed to have a 5+ invulnerable save, basically overwriting the codex (IE Fateweaver is i5 instead of i3)?

As always, thank you to every one who responds

I would think its a combination you get the abilites from the codex and the brb with the daemon rules.

As far as I remember, Chaos Daemons have never had anytiing bit invulnerable saves.

The stats in the update has a - in the save slot

The new update only change the units in the update (otherwise we would be looking at a deamon codex cosisting of 3 chariots, flamers and screamers, with no furter rules or guidelines ).
The deamon rule in the main rule book give all deamons 5++, but there is also inv saves given in the codex: chaos deamons; if any saves in the codex are better, they are to be used (exept for the units edited with the WD update).

@SoloFalcon1138
They got the gift iron hide giving 3+ armour save, ut I dont think its written out in any profile.

You get all the rules from the main codex, meaning your save is at least a 5++.

You dont overwrite anything int he daemon codex with the daemon rule from the BRB, as any contradictions are handled in favour of the codex.

Just posted this in the news topic, but will post it here as well.

Just read the latest White Dwarf.

I quote;

'The aspect of Tzeentch's Daemon's that is immediately noticeable in Warhammer 40,000 is that their invulnerable save is better than that of other Daemons of Chaos, making them tough to kill'.

Screamers and Flamers must still be 4++ or this statement doesn't make sense.

Nope, they dont have an improved save any longer. WD is wrong, shock.

(they were wrong on the venom number of shots as well - s venoms with no upgrades put out 12 shots, not 8)

dan2026 wrote:Just posted this in the news topic, but will post it here as well.

Just read the latest White Dwarf.

I quote;

'The aspect of Tzeentch's Daemon's that is immediately noticeable in Warhammer 40,000 is that their invulnerable save is better than that of other Daemons of Chaos, making them tough to kill'.

Screamers and Flamers must still be 4++ or this statement doesn't make sense.

If a Daemon Prince takes a Mark of Tzeentch he gets a 4+ Invulnerable save. This makes that sentence make sense still. If the new summary lists the save as "-" then Flamers and Screemers get the Daemon's base 5+ save.

Im wondering do the heralds still have the option for the old chariot that modifed thier statline, they didt say it was out.

Yes, as it hasnt been replaced.

Screamers have - for their save, plus a 5++ invulnerable. However, if they Mark of Tzeentch, they would then add 1 to that save, for a 4++ invulnerable, same as before.

jifel wrote:Screamers have - for their save, plus a 5++ invulnerable. However, if they Mark of Tzeentch, they would then add 1 to that save, for a 4++ invulnerable, same as before.

Unless this was updated by WD Screamers cannot take Marks of Chaos. The entry specifies Daemon Prince only and a Mark is not an option in their profile or upgrade list.

Well this thread seems handled.

PS: Gotta compliment the OP on the slammin avatar.

Captain Antivas wrote:

jifel wrote:Screamers have - for their save, plus a 5++ invulnerable. However, if they Mark of Tzeentch, they would then add 1 to that save, for a 4++ invulnerable, same as before.

Unless this was updated by WD Screamers cannot take Marks of Chaos. The entry specifies Daemon Prince only and a Mark is not an option in their profile or upgrade list.

Wait, Screamers of Tzeentch don't have... Mark of Tzeentch? Thats amusing.

jifel wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:

jifel wrote:Screamers have - for their save, plus a 5++ invulnerable. However, if they Mark of Tzeentch, they would then add 1 to that save, for a 4++ invulnerable, same as before.

Unless this was updated by WD Screamers cannot take Marks of Chaos. The entry specifies Daemon Prince only and a Mark is not an option in their profile or upgrade list.

Wait, Screamers of Tzeentch don't have... Mark of Tzeentch? Thats amusing.

No they don't as only a Daemon Prince may take a Mark of Tzeentch. Since a Screamer of Tzeentch is not a Daemon Prince it cannot have a Mark of Tzeentch.

HoverBoy wrote:Well this thread seems handled.

PS: Gotta compliment the OP on the slammin avatar.

Nerd Rage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I noticed the chages to Screamers and Flamers as well.
Consider the following:
Flamers
Lost - inv save -1 to 5+
Lost - one model gains Bolt of Tzeentch
Gained - +1 more wound
Gained - +1 Initiative
Gained - "Sgt" AKA Pyrocaster
Gained - 12pts per model cheaper

Screamers
Lost - inv save -1 to 5+
Lost - one model gains Unholy Might
Lost - Warp Jaws
Lost - 10pts more expensive
Gained - Slashing Attack
Gained - Lamprey's Bite
Gained - +1 more wound
Gained - +1 Initiative

Overall I think it balances out. I like Screamers better this way.

Screamers and Flamers having a 5++ doesn't make any kind of logical sense to me.

It just feels wrong when Horrors still have a 4++.

Can someone clarify one thing to the total noob?

As I understand the general rules, you are not allowed to assault after the deepstrike. Can Deamons do it?

No, because there's no rule saying they can

I asked because while reading WD battle report it seemed that daemons coming from reserve were instantly attacking (assaulting) the enemy. At least that's how I understood it...

Cyvash wrote:Im wondering do the heralds still have the option for the old chariot that modifed thier statline, they didt say it was out.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, as it hasnt been replaced.

The WD claimed the Seeker Chariot could be used for a Slaanesh Herald, but I guess, WD and all that jazz, could just be flat out wrong.

This codex update seemed like a pretty neat idea to me, but it's just been poorly executed IMO, to put out this document that so obviously and immediately required a FAQ.

The chariot CAN be used by a herald, however nothing replaces the other chariot they have that doesnt have an AV. Not that I found

nosferatu1001 wrote:The chariot CAN be used by a herald, however nothing replaces the other chariot they have that doesnt have an AV. Not that I found

The first part is correct as it is listed in a box under the points listing part of the update for the new Chariots. I would question though whether the old chariot is still a viable option for a Slaanesh Herald. Why would they list the three options as Mount of Slaanesh, Seeker Chariot and Exalted Chariot when they only describe the Chariots in this update? I'm thinking that is meant to replace the prior options for the Slaanesh Herald.

I'm also thinking that the other Heralds with Chariot options would stay as written in the original codex and would NOT be considered Chariots under the new 6th edition rules (they aren't vehicles). They act more like mount upgrades by altering the stat line of the Herald. Anyone have a different opinion?

danant wrote:I asked because while reading WD battle report it seemed that daemons coming from reserve were instantly attacking (assaulting) the enemy. At least that's how I understood it...

They did make screamers better in this respect actually. Since turbo boosting is done in the shooting phase now, you can land, Turbo boost 24" over an enemy unit dropping D3 str 4 hits per screamer on the unit. And pretty much be positioned wherever the hell you want.

icefire78 wrote:

danant wrote:I asked because while reading WD battle report it seemed that daemons coming from reserve were instantly attacking (assaulting) the enemy. At least that's how I understood it...

They did make screamers better in this respect actually. Since turbo boosting is done in the shooting phase now, you can land, Turbo boost 24" over an enemy unit dropping D3 str 4 hits per screamer on the unit. And pretty much be positioned wherever the hell you want.

This is true, but they lost 3 str in their "melta bombs" attack. They still get 2d6 armor penetration but are str5 not str8.

They get 3 attacks though, so double the number on the charge than previously....

So I'm a bit confused, is Lamprey's Bite just how they attack, or is it an optional attack instead of their normal attacks?

Edit: It seems like it's just how they attack, which is amazing, just not sure.

lucasbuffalo wrote:So I'm a bit confused, is Lamprey's Bite just how they attack, or is it an optional attack instead of their normal attacks?

Lamprey's bite = melee attack
Slashing attack = "fly over" attack (think Necron catacomb command barge)