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At last, where have you been Gloomfang, playing too much 40k no doubt when your valuable input is needed here

Any genious tactical ideas for deployment or using the flying off the board option we have with our flyers?

L0rdF1end wrote:At last, where have you been Gloomfang, playing too much 40k no doubt when your valuable input is needed here

Any genious tactical ideas for deployment or using the flying off the board option we have with our flyers?

ROLF... Honestly my wife said that I was spending to much time on the internet arguing rules for my silly plastic monsters with 12 year olds on the internet. And I had a new project start at work so my play time is very limited.

As for flyers, I don't touch them with a 5ft pole right now. There is nothing they can do that can not be done more cheaply and better by anouther unit. Our FMCs don't have any special anti-flyer abilities and they have liabilities that normal Flyers do not have. I have seen grounding tests failed and Flyrants crash to the ground and die becasue they were hit by TAU MARKERLIGHTS (check it, its possible).

Also there is a bit of anti-flyer spam feaver going on in my meta. People are so terrified of Flyer spam that they are loading up on units to kill flyers. Our FMCs are WAY to vunlnerable to AA fire. By not taking them (or at least not swooping them) we can make those points wasted.

Right now I am going more to the Swarmlord with 2 TG with LW and a Prime with BS/LS, Scytal and Toxin as a Deathstar. There are much fewer counters to psykers and he plays very well to the rest of the Tyrnid armies strengths. As much as I would love to use a Flyrant, I see 250pts that doesn't do much other than die real fast. And as much as people say the Swarmlord is to expensive he is cheaper then BOTH the flyrants you said you are running in your lists.

To each his own. I find that 2 flying tyrants, while expensive, do 2 things every single game: 1.) give me first blood by slagging a land speeder or rhino EQ, and 2.) get in the enemy zone turn 1 for a turn 2 assault when needed or simply run interference.

I tabled a dark angel player last night. He managed to get one of my flyrants to 1W remaining but didn't have the death blow. I swooped off the table, came back on turn 3 and cast leech life. By turn 4 he had nothing left on the table. So, for me - I love FMCs.

Forgive me, but someone in another thread mentioned giving a MC wings would make it a Jump MC and not a flying MC. So can anyone explain how the Hivetyrant gets the Flying MC rule instead? Im not doubting you lot, but mostly for my own argument if it comes up

The codex specific FAQs dictate which winged MCs are flyers. Tyranid FAQ labels harpies and hive tyrants with wings as FMCs and also says they may deep strike. The chaos daemon codex FAQ also says their FMCs with wings are flyers.

The anomaly here is the chaos space marine FAQ - it specifically mentions winged daemon princes as jump rather than flying. I figure this is due to their lower base cost and cheaper wings upgrade compared to the other books.

Ahh that makes much more sense. Thanks for clearing that up

KingCracker wrote:Ahh that makes much more sense. Thanks for clearing that up

Its also theorized that the new CSM book will have no daemons (which may include Daemon princes). Possibly the developers didn't want to give something awesome that was just going to be taken away in the new book? Cost also makes sense though but I don't have the CSM book

Eh, I dont listen to wishlisting from others. I believe it when its concrete. All the BS from not only the 6th edition rules, but the previous 2 codices just made me want to choke people to death. But either way, my wife will be happy. AND to add to it, looks like I have a reason to buy her a bunch of Trygons, so she can make some Hapies! Granted that purchase has nothing to do with the flyrant, but still, I think Harpies are going to be much more useful now them in 5th

Harpies are great anti infantry platforms with barbed stranglers and cluster spines. However we need an anti air flyer so I'm hoping GW gives us a dual kit when the harpy finally gets one. Plus white dwarf rules.

6th has given me hope for Nids. My wife plays them, and so in 5th, I would have to hold off on many units and upgrades simply because it was too easy to take out Nids for me. Now in 6th though, the Nids have some claws once again.

ruminator wrote:FMCs don't work well in singles, but where you have a mass of targets. Regen is too expensive on tyrants, I'd only run it on a normal prime where it's 10 points.

Tervigon and zoanthrope codex powers are pretty good, but the tyrant ones were always pretty lacklustre and I would swap them for biomancy every time.

Don't forget that your Tervigon comes with a psychic power. Catalyst makes it 2. You can swap Dominion for a Biomancy.

I know many have had success with FMC but grounding tests off anything hitting you, regardless of wounding, is just too massive of a /facepalm for me to bear. A finger-flung booger can make a Hive Tyrant plummet to the ground and get wounded on a 2+, sooooo cinematic!

psyklone wrote:

ruminator wrote:FMCs don't work well in singles, but where you have a mass of targets. Regen is too expensive on tyrants, I'd only run it on a normal prime where it's 10 points.

Tervigon and zoanthrope codex powers are pretty good, but the tyrant ones were always pretty lacklustre and I would swap them for biomancy every time.

Don't forget that your Tervigon comes with a psychic power. Catalyst makes it 2. You can swap Dominion for a Biomancy.

It seems you can only swap them all or not all, you can't keep one power and trade another. Shame.

I am looking to play my tyrant as jump infantry now after failing one grounding test too many. The gargoyle screen is back again.

ruminator wrote:

I am looking to play my tyrant as jump infantry now after failing one grounding test too many. The gargoyle screen is back again.

What does a Gargoyle screen actually do for you?
It gives you a 5+ cover save at best and keeps him out of combat.

So now he will take more hits (non snapshot) and potentially more wounds to make with your 3+ and anything AP3 on a 5+.
To me that doesn't sound more survivable.

Just because you can swoop into enemy territory turn one and blaze him with your devourers doesn't mean that you should do it.
The key to survival is ensuring you don't do exaclty this unless you've pulled off some quality Powers buffing the crap out of him (Iron Arm, Endurance, Telekine Dome).
Only then would I consider flying a Tyrant into enemy territory so he can soak up your opponents shooting.
Otherwise it's surely a better tactic to stay back in cover until the time is right.

Difference is they get to shoot normally, but still have to wound to do damage. On a T6 model this makes him all but immune to bolter fire. On flying a hit is enough to cause a grounding test.

If you can get iron hands on the tyrant then you're golden as the toughness boost makes it extra tough to wound. 5+ cover save is just for AP2/3 weaponry and if you only move him as a jump unit until in charge range then you can still get catalyst on him. Basic psychic powers will always be swapped on the tyrant as they're fairly mediocre.

Gargoyle screen is mainly for avoiding a charge unless you want it and avoiding the comabt tie up if the opponent has cheap sergeants etc to soak up the tyrant attacks. If you're about to charge, then move the flyrant 12", gargoyles only 6". Charge the tyrant in first so he gets the overwatch shots and then the gargoyles can follow in unmolested and benefit from OA on the flyrant.

Fair play ruminator, I understand your beef with the grounding test. It's a harsh agreed. Especially when Flying machines don't have to take such a test.
3+ save otherwise strength 9 hit with no save is very harsh indeed.

If you are taking a list with FMC/s I don't think continued use of Swooping is the best plan.
The more hits secured against you, the more Grounded tests you will make and therefore the more wounds on a porbable 2+ you will take.
I personally feel Swooping should be used to get to a destination of interest.
Then switch to glide mode. Get yourself in combat with something if you are concerned about returning fire. Use Terain to limit the incoming fire.

Any sensible player will use small arms fire to force grounding tests on Swooping FMC's.
The question is, how do you use that to your advantage...

Objuration Mechanicam comes to mind making all 6's to wound and hit be rerolled.
The opponent would also need to disembark from veichles to increase the chances of secured hits.
So our primary targets with FMC's should be troops and anything with a large number of dice to hit if we are in Swooping mode.>?

Of course im not accounting for AA.

My list needs more play testing and more thought how best to support my FMC's.
The above is just me thinking out aloud.

I'd like to hear more from people that are play testing FMC's.

As far as anti-flyer tactics go, the best one i've seen for 'nids is a quad gun aegis line, manned by a venomthrope, zoanthrope, or hive guard.

tetrisphreak wrote:As far as anti-flyer tactics go, the best one i've seen for 'nids is a quad gun aegis line, manned by a venomthrope, zoanthrope, or hive guard.

What's that got to do with Tactics and Loadouts for FMC's?
Back on topic...someone...anyone

tetrisphreak wrote:As far as anti-flyer tactics go, the best one i've seen for 'nids is a quad gun aegis line, manned by a venomthrope, zoanthrope, or hive guard.

I thought Nids couldnt man the quad gun?

KingCracker wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:As far as anti-flyer tactics go, the best one i've seen for 'nids is a quad gun aegis line, manned by a venomthrope, zoanthrope, or hive guard.

I thought Nids couldnt man the quad gun?

Not to offend the OP but I consider anti flyer tactics to be complementary to flyer tactica.

Tyranids may not fire emplaced guns (heavy bolters/frag storm missiles in fortifications). A quad gun is a gun emplacement - it follows the artillery style rules and has a separate entry in the brb. Nids in base contact may fire the quad gun and it does not have an automated fire setting like emplaced weapons.

Ahh thanks for the clarification there. I just hope any Nid player that takes one, makes a suitable Nid style Quad gun. Because having the image of a Gant shooting an Imperial Quad Gun is making me chuckle

Before you compare flyers to flyer MCs, do keep in mind that flying MCs are denial units, and can be a denial unit even when in the air.

I know grounding tests are annoying, but I imagine trying to drop a flying MC that is contesting your emperor's will objective (and getting linebreaker) with your diminished army is similarly annoying, probably a lot more so.

They are easier to kill and counter than flyers, but also much more mission critical. Its a fair compromise between walking and being a non-denial unit.

I've been playing the standard BS/LW (whoever said BS/LW is not good really needs to run it, it's mint) + TL Dev combo, but I'm going to try in either a dual Flyrant list, or swap my current one to either the plane jane weapon loadout (Scytals, BS/LW) or 2x Sytals with toxin sacs and just make them turn 2 heavy tank / long fang / (fill in the blank with annoying unit) punchers. Hey, 5e my Flyrant was just about getting him in the mix ASAP, now it's pretty dang hard to not get turn 2 assault with him thanks to swoop.

So yeah, heavily considering doing a dual flyrant list, shooty version + punchy version.

How effective would 2 flyrants and 3 harpies be in a typical match? Of say, under 2k? Would all those FMC be real badass, or would it be one of those things where its too much of a good thing?

KingCracker wrote:How effective would 2 flyrants and 3 harpies be in a typical match? Of say, under 2k? Would all those FMC be real badass, or would it be one of those things where its too much of a good thing?

En masse is certainly and interesting way to go. Problem is that's so many points, not sure what you can do for effective troops/objective missions.

Shep wrote:Before you compare flyers to flyer MCs, do keep in mind that flying MCs are denial units, and can be a denial unit even when in the air.

I know grounding tests are annoying, but I imagine trying to drop a flying MC that is contesting your emperor's will objective (and getting linebreaker) with your diminished army is similarly annoying, probably a lot more so.

They are easier to kill and counter than flyers, but also much more mission critical. Its a fair compromise between walking and being a non-denial unit.

It's funny you should say that but I went to bed thinking exactly the same thing.
They should be more used as support units rather than ramming down the throat of your enemy only to be shot off the board in two turns.

So a Flyrant with OA giving buffs to say Hive Guard or Devil Gaunts and heck, even Zoanthropes would where he would be used best. Even supporting combat based units, whatever is in your list that can benefit.
While doing this he should be protected/looked after. If he gets low on wounds fly him off the board or put him where he is out of LOS from the enemy army.
Come back on and life leech someones arse, protect him/them until turn 5 and use him to deny objectives. Fly off the board again if needed to ensure survival.

If we consider using him in the above way, I'm not really sure 2 Flyrants are needed but at the same time i'm not convinced it won't work.
After all, if you manage to keep both of them alive that's potentially two swooping Flyrants to help deny your opponent on objectives.

Keeping the shooty units in the OA bubble while moving the flyrant the minimum amount required to keep him flying is problematical as the bubble is pretty small. I tried it and really struggled to keep everything in range of each other - I was okay T2 but then T3, after the army was mid-field it was getting a bit dicey as you needed to keep him out of rapid fire range and yet near to the shooty stuff.

Maybe I just needed more practice ...

Yeah, I dont think you can keep everything in range. Just aim for certain units at a time.

So for instance. I start on the board with 5 Hive Guard.
Initially I want to be giving OA to these.

Turn 2 sees two Spores of Devil Gants and a Spore of Zoanthropes. The plan being to then move my Tyrant to give these guys OA support.

Obviously things will work differently with each list.
But the Flyarnt clearly can be a great support objective denier.


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I actually started writing lists last night containing a Flyrant and a Swarmlord.
That gives you an additional unit to grant Preffered enemy and for me gives me the auto +1 to reserves I was looking for with HC.

ruminator wrote:

KingCracker wrote:How effective would 2 flyrants and 3 harpies be in a typical match? Of say, under 2k? Would all those FMC be real badass, or would it be one of those things where its too much of a good thing?

En masse is certainly and interesting way to go. Problem is that's so many points, not sure what you can do for effective troops/objective missions.

I dunno, I quickly came up with this


Hive Tyrant *260pts
TL-Devourers x2
wings

Hive Tyrant *255
wings
Heavy Venom Cannon

TROOPS

Genestealers x20 *280pts

Termagants x20 *250pts
Devourersx20
-Spore pod
-cluster spines

Termagants x20 *250pts
Devourerx20
-Spore pod
-cluster spines

FAST ATTACK

Harpy 160
TL-Heavy Venom Cannon

Harpy 160

Harpy 160
TL-Heavy Venom Cannon

And thats just under 1800pts if I didnt miss anything. I could see that rocking pretty decently at those levels.



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Granted that whole army could be randomly dropped in and screw the pootch, but it could also work out for you and REALLY hammer on an opponent

The TL HVC Harpys should be 170 points, not 160.