Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Bannzai wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is there anything actually against the rules about deploying the trukk side-on up against the deployment line, and then (during movement phase) rotating about its centre-point before moving forward? This would probably get an extra inch as well.

The rule of decency!!! I've had people do this, it's unsporting and rules lawyering at it's worst. Often combined with modeling for advantage.

When a guy does this when playing against him, double check all of his moves because sportsmanship is not his priority.

It's unsporting, possibly. I've had people refrigerator walk LR's across the board by rotating from the corners, all whilst 'not moving' . That's unsporting and breaking the rules

Rules lawyering? Not really. The rule says to rotate around the center point. You can deploy any way you like within your deployment zone. Trukks (and DE Raiders- the other vehicle people tend to whine about in this) are AV 10 all round, so side armour shots aren't a disadvantage. Flipside is that the side armour is what everyone else's rear armour is, or worse

MFA? Not unless they lengthened the trukk's bed or something. A standard trukk is longer than it is wide, just like almost every other vehicle out there.

Before you flame me, and no doubt someone will, there are far more exploitable yet legal shenanigans out there than this, which is in fact the way the rules tell you to move. They don't say that parking sideways at the edge of your deployment zone is a Mortal SIn, and most of the players i've met couldn't give a flying monkey about it.

I don't care if someone sets up sideways and then pivots to move. It makes them a bigger profile for my shooting, and really doesn't gain them terribly much.

Ascalam wrote:It's unsporting, possibly. I've had people refrigerator walk LR's across the board by rotating from the corners, all whilst 'not moving' . That's unsporting and breaking the rules

Rules lawyering? Not really. The rule says to rotate around the center point. You can deploy any way you like within your deployment zone. Trukks (and DE Raiders- the other vehicle people tend to whine about in this) are AV 10 all round, so side armour shots aren't a disadvantage. Flipside is that the side armour is what everyone else's rear armour is, or worse

MFA? Not unless they lengthened the trukk's bed or something. A standard trukk is longer than it is wide, just like almost every other vehicle out there.

It's using the rules as written to gain (a modest) advantage. The only reason to turn a vehicle side on, that is rectangular in shape, when it has the same armor (raider,trukk) or worse armor (Battle Wagon) is to gain the inch or so in movement from the pivot. I would call that rules lawyering. Using a loophole to gain advantage.

I've noticed that guys that do this have a very strange understanding of where the center of their vehicle is. (Usually somewhere near the back of the vehicle)

As none of my trukks,nor any that I have ever seen have the exact same build it's wide open for modeling for advantage. Ork vehicles and players are widely diverse in their builds.

The guys that do this are usually the guys that complain about "steal the initiative" and I've never seen any of the guys that do this deploy in that manner when they go second.

Fair enough.

I'd consider it to be balanced somewhat by the downsides, but then i play with people who play fair

This is especially true of a vehicle with weaker side than front armour, such as the BW. You are giving up AV14 for AV 12, in order to gain an extra inch of movement or so? Not exactly an huge advantage there.

In the case of the Raider it's near impossible to claim the centre point as anywhere else, as pivoting on the flight stand is as simple as pushing the prow around.

I don't tend to pivot-trick myself, as i consider it far safer/saner to leave the AV 14 somewhere useful, and my trukks are almost all guaranteed to die turn 1 or 2 anyway

My Raiders like lurking under Night Shields back aways from the line, revelling in the fact that they'll still be outranged and out-gunned.

It isnt rules lawyering - its been a part of the game since 2003, possibly 1998.

The studio are aware you can do this, its just a consequence of the thankfully simpler vehicle movement rules.

A couple nids can assault on arrival too. Death Leaper, Ymgyrl Steelers. Check the codex.

Does Fleet affect assault in 6th edition?

hivepdktyrant wrote:A couple nids can assault on arrival too. Death Leaper, Ymgyrl Steelers. Check the codex.

The codex does not allow DL to assault - infact he's specifically prohibited from doing so - check the rules for Chameleonic Skin on page 41 of your codex.

Does Fleet affect assault in 6th edition?

Yes, read your BRB.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Land raider, and Assault marines.

Land raider on deployment edge, moves forward 6".

Assault marines deploy 6".

Assault marines roll an 18 for assault with their jump packs.

30" assault.

Any other open topped or Assault Vehicle(especially with a front access point) loaded with Jump Infantry can do this.

Are jump pack troops allowed in a land raider now? I know they have bulky but other then a storm raven I cannot see anything that lets them into a transport.

My bad, I though he was the only lictor who could. I havent used lictors in quite a while because of the pop-up and shoot me rule they got stuck with.
Ymgyrls still arrive from Dormant and assault.

I'm still hoping that Fleet is revamped in next nid dex and they at least get to take a leadership or init test and if passed, assault from DS or Infiltrate.
It should help ravners too.

hivepdktyrant wrote:My bad, I though he was the only lictor who could. I havent used lictors in quite a while because of the pop-up and shoot me rule they got stuck with.
Ymgyrls still arrive from Dormant and assault.
I'm still hoping that Fleet is revamped in next nid dex and they at least get to take a leadership or init test and if passed, assault from DS or Infiltrate.
It should help ravners too.

Lictors don't do it either or else DL could do it as he is a Lictor. AS of right now only 3 units can assault out of reserves. Ymgarls, Vangard Vets and Zagstruck (I think).

Also if you go second you can still assault with Infiltrators.

Zagstrukk can assault out of deepstike, but loses several Stormboyz to do it.

Fragile wrote:Well, deployment can be 24". So jump infantry/beasts can jump 12 then assault 12. It is possibly but very unlikely.

Ah, but you cannot set up on the 24" line. You must be 24.000000000000000000000001 inches away. Its a stupid thing but somethign my shooting armies love. technical rule loophole. You also cannot disembark if the transport moved more than 6' if I remember correctly so the previouslty posted assault veicle suggestion is also invalid.

How is sideways deployment any more unsporting than 5e wound allocation shenanigans, conga-lines along table edges, or challenge-tarpitting? All are perfectly within the RAW. No sleight-of-hand or lawyering is required.

Frankly, compared to the totally rules-legal abberation that is 2+,3++,5+++ (FNP) termies, anything else in the game seems rather minor.

I'd far rather have an opponent rotate-zoom than some of the other 'raw-legal, so there! ' BS i've encountered.

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:...as you must set up 24.0000000000000000000000000000000000000002 inches away from your opponent...

Where is this stated?

Back in 3rd Iused to warn my opponents not to set up on the 12inch line because if I rolled a good fleet my bugs could charge first turn.

They would thank me and pull back an inch.

It always says you may set up UP TO xxx" away from your opponent, or from your board edge.

That up to is -not- inclusive, meaning setting up 12" exactly from the edge would be cheating... you can set up 11.9999999" away though.

So, you'll always be a millionth of an inch out of charge, or you were measuring too far.

Horst has it right.

DeffDred wrote:

Vindicare-Obsession wrote:...as you must set up 24.0000000000000000000000000000000000000002 inches away from your opponent...

Where is this stated?

Back in 3rd Iused to warn my opponents not to set up on the 12inch line because if I rolled a good fleet my bugs could charge first turn.

They would thank me and pull back an inch.

Page 121. Deployment zone is defined as anywhere in their own table half that is MORE than 12" from the central line.