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Gloomfang wrote:@humbaba. The LotD are really only good against CC units that ignore armor saves. As a tyrnid plaer i can tell you that is almost everything in our army. I would rather fight 10 TH/SS termis than 10 LotD. I would not take them in an all comers list, but against Nids i would.

Whaaaaaa? Termie survivability = LotD survivability, plus double that against anything that isn't AP2. Termie damage far exceeds LotD damage, even factoring in the LotD's ranged firepower. Termies can lineback for your army, LotD have to start in reserve and may not show up until Turn 4. I can't imagine why you'd be happier seeing 10 Assault Termies across the table from you than 10 LotD. Madness.

The reason i took the chaplin was that he makes a good point man. With a good save and FNP he can suck up a lot of attacks and protect his squad. I was going to go with Lysander, but i just couldn't find the points.

Drop Telion? You took him because you "had the points."

As for the sniper rifles, they only get you one shot on overwatch. Bolters get you 2. These units are going to get charged before they get to many rounds of shoting.

You shouldn't base your weapon choice on one extra BS 1 shot before your unit gets chomped. Sniper rifles are much better overall for the role. Furthermore, if the rest of the army does its job these guys will not be getting jumped.

As for the stationary aspect you forgot that LotD have to deepstrike. And yes the list is lacking in mobility the enemy is based on coming to you, so mobility is not key.

It's not that the army is stationary. It's that it's stationary without the long range firepower to back it up. Without good >24" firepower or good mobility, you're basically neutering the number of turns you'll have to shoot. This is why LS Typhoons are so good - they get 2 krak missiles at 48", plus 3 HB shots at 36", after moving 12", for only 90 points. These would do very well against the OP's Nid list.

In all the OPs list is much better as an all comers list. This list is tailored for the Nid list listed up in the original post. And in the hands of a compitant Nid general the OPs list has some real issues and weaknesses against a stealershock/warstar list.

It's not really tailored against any sort of Nid list ... it's like the opposite of tailored to a Nid list.

LotD have a 3+ Invulnerable Save... TH/SS termies have a 3+ Invulnerable Save.

And they reduce your MCs to I1, and they have a 2+ save against non-MCs / shooting... and the TH/SS are going to ignore the armor saves of the Monstrous Creatures, aswell as wound most of them on 2s/3s.

And no, MC's aren't going to get across the board in a Missile Launcher Heavy List. I'm going to pour missile shots into anything big, and use bolter shots to clean up Genestealers.

The Snipers will get 3 - 4 rounds of shooting, depending on the mission and how the Space Marine deploys. I doubt people are rolling double 6s for charge range all the time, so it should take atleast 3 turns if the Space Marine player deploys further back, and potentially longer depending on how well shooting does. Bolters can't even hurt Monstrous Creatures very well, and if you know you are going to go up against a lot of them when you have Scouts, you should be taking Sniper Rifles everytime.

If you want to beat a MC list, load up on Missiles for MCs, and Bolters/Assault/Autocannons depending on what the small gribblies are.

In short:

Take Missile Launcher / HB Speeders, Missile Devs, Missle Tacs, and either Flamers or Plasma Guns for the Tacs Special Weapons. If you are taking Scouts for some weird reason, always use snipers.

Missiles are amazing against everything that's not the front side of a Leman Russ or a Land Raider.

the sternguard should also only be 310 points
125 + 100 for 5 more marines + 50 for 10 combi weapons + 35 for a DP
125+100+50+35=310 not 335

125 Base, 25pts / model. 125pts for 5 additional Sternguard. 125+125 = 250. 5pts / Combi weapon, with 10 combi weapons, 300pts. Drop Pod, 35pts. 335pts.

Math is hurrd.

Roboute wrote:Overall, this list lacks any viable long-range firepower, which is the SM's best weapon against Nids. It has too much mid-range shooting and padding, and would perform much worse than any of the other lists posted so far.

Actully you just hit the nail on the head as to why my list is better then the other lists. I totally agree, long range shooting is SM's best friend. And against the Nid list in question you never get to use it. Look at it from a deployment view. The Nids have 2 units of deepstrikers and 2 units of infiltrators. That means against those units your already at midfield shooting and will get 1 turn of shooting before your in CC with them. The warstar will not expose itself except to quickly destroy a unit with its high volume of shots. The zoans are probably just there for anti AV14 or horde control.

This is why he is winning. Peopl are not engaging him at the right distance.


Edit: A for LotD vs. TH/SS. In my opinion the LotD are still better as they can attack at initiative and not last.

Gloomfang wrote:

Roboute wrote:Overall, this list lacks any viable long-range firepower, which is the SM's best weapon against Nids. It has too much mid-range shooting and padding, and would perform much worse than any of the other lists posted so far.

Actully you just hit the nail on the head as to why my list is better then the other lists. I totally agree, long range shooting is SM's best friend. And against the Nid list in question you never get to use it. Look at it from a deployment view. The Nids have 2 units of deepstrikers and 2 units of infiltrators. That means against those units your already at midfield shooting and will get 1 turn of shooting before your in CC with them. The warstar will not expose itself except to quickly destroy a unit with its high volume of shots. The zoans are probably just there for anti AV14 or horde control.

This is why he is winning. Peopl are not engaging him at the right distance.

Oh, right.

Give the Tyranid Player first turn, too, so he can't charge with his Stealers. Then vaporize them with bolters. Though, they have to start 18.01 inches away, so they shouldn't be able to first turn charge anyways, unless you move towards them or something silly.

Crazyterran wrote:
Oh, right.

Give the Tyranid Player first turn, too, so he can't charge with his Stealers. Then vaporize them with bolters. Though, they have to start 18.01 inches away, so they shouldn't be able to first turn charge anyways, unless you move towards them or something silly.

Always give the Nid player the first turn. Also don't forget that in 6th Nightfight rules are in effect on a 4+.

I think people are still thinking in 5th Ed. A bit to much when it comes to NIds. Whole new army and a lot of the new rules favor them.

Gloomfang wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Oh, right.

Give the Tyranid Player first turn, too, so he can't charge with his Stealers. Then vaporize them with bolters. Though, they have to start 18.01 inches away, so they shouldn't be able to first turn charge anyways, unless you move towards them or something silly.

Always give the Nid player the first turn. Also don't forget that in 6th Nightfight rules are in effect on a 4+.

I think people are still thinking in 5th Ed. A bit to much when it comes to NIds. Whole new army and a lot of the new rules favor them.

Being a Nid player that lost at least one 10 stealer + brood lord unit on the first turn of literally every game this past weekend (6 games, tournament) and literally never got a charge off from infiltrate, no I'm not underestimating them.

If any unit in his army can see you, you must deploy more than 18 inches away. That's pretty easy to do overall.
I had night fight in half my games, and a rhino illuminates the stealers for everyone else to shoot.

Saying he'll never get to use his long range shooting is just plain wrong. I will guarantee the war star takes more than 2 turns to get a charge off. Yes, guarantee.

It's not all roses and puppy dog noses for Nids. The posted list isn't a good one.

@rigeld2
personaly i think 10you is to many stealers. I am keeping mine to min size and a broodlord because its easier to keep them in cover.

As for losing your broods: are you deploying to far forward or are you playing on a table with to little terrain that blocks LoS? I have about 20 games in so far for 6th and i have only lost broods to drop pods and demons.

And i agree on the war star that is a turn 3 or 44 charge unit

Gloomfang wrote:Actully you just hit the nail on the head as to why my list is better then the other lists. I totally agree, long range shooting is SM's best friend. And against the Nid list in question you never get to use it. Look at it from a deployment view. The Nids have 2 units of deepstrikers and 2 units of infiltrators. That means against those units your already at midfield shooting and will get 1 turn of shooting before your in CC with them. The warstar will not expose itself except to quickly destroy a unit with its high volume of shots. The zoans are probably just there for anti AV14 or horde control.

This is why he is winning. Peopl are not engaging him at the right distance.

So, your first sentence includes the words "why my list is better," and yet you ignore the other 90% of my post that explains why it isn't. Okay.

Edit: A for LotD vs. TH/SS. In my opinion the LotD are still better as they can attack at initiative and not last.

Well, your opinion doesn't agree with math. Let's say both are charged by the full-strength warriorstar. The LotD overwatches, causing a little less than 2 wounds, which kills nothing and is probably LoS'd around the unit by the Prime. The Prime challenges the LotD sergeant, the TH/SS sergeant challenges the Prime, so either way there's a challenge. When the Prime strikes, it kills 0.92 models (in both units), so odds are each Sergeant is dead. Both units are now down to 9. The Warriors strike with 36 attacks, hitting with 24, getting 12 wounds plus 4 rends. This will kill 5.3 LotD, or 3.3 TH/SS. If they're LotD, the 8 models strike back simultaneously, causing about 1 Wound. Still no Warriors dead. Now, at Init 1, we're looking at about 4 LotD left who have already attacked, or about 6 TH/SS. The TH/SS strike, causing about 5 Wounds. The Nid player can't allocate to the Prime, so that's 5 Warriors dead. Next turn, the LotD dies, or maybe hangs on with 1 model, likely leaving the (still full-strength) deathstar to charge again in the Nid turn. Alternatively, the TH/SS mop up with 2-4 models remaining, having more than made their points back. They can now take down a weakened Trygon or neuter the Raveners.

That's a huge, massive difference.

You know what would skew the numbers even more? Missile launchers. If even a few of the Warriors fall to missile fire, the TH/SS pull ahead even more, but even the LotD can properly tarpit a unit that isn't so big. It's not because missiles are long range. It's because they're S8 AP3. That profile is needed to take down this unit, which is the same reason that TH/SS beat out LotD against the warriorstar.

Edit: Gloomfang, I usually agree with your posts on Nid tactics. You seem like one of the better Nid players out there, particularly after the transition to 6e. But, no offense, it really doesn't seem like you get how the list you made works (well, how it doesn't work). Your preference for LotD over TH/SS highlights your unfamiliarity with C:SM ... not that LotD are a trap unit, but any decent C:SM player can point out why TH/SS are better.

@rigeld2
personaly i think 10you is to many stealers. I am keeping mine to min size and a broodlord because its easier to keep them in cover.

As for losing your broods: are you deploying to far forward or are you playing on a table with to little terrain that blocks LoS? I have about 20 games in so far for 6th and i have only lost broods to drop pods and demons.

And i agree on the war star that is a turn 3 or 4 charge unit. I don't think it is intended to charge early on or he would have given them boneswords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@roboute

Your right if you discount the round of shooting that the LotD get the turn they deepstrike. I am on my phone so i will have to work out how many warriors would get killed before they get the charge off.

And sorry if i discounted. I am out and typing on my phone so it is hard to reply in detail.

Gloomfang wrote:@rigeld2
personaly i think 10you is to many stealers. I am keeping mine to min size and a broodlord because its easier to keep them in cover.

As for losing your broods: are you deploying to far forward or are you playing on a table with to little terrain that blocks LoS? I have about 20 games in so far for 6th and i have only lost broods to drop pods and demons.

And i agree on the war star that is a turn 3 or 44 charge unit

I deployed very near the 18" mark in cover every time.

If you have a 6" bubble 12" away from your opponents deployment that is completely out of sight from every enemy unit on even half the tables you play on, your opponents have no idea what they're doing.

Ive never seen that kind of bubble in a tournament.

I'd recommend just taking notes after battles with him on where you feel you messed up, what you could have done better, what units hurt you the most, etc. and spend some time brainstorming solutions. I only say that because that Nid list is pretty bad so the Nid player is either a tactical genius or you are making serious blunders. And contrary to what others have said, 4 psykers in 1500 points is far from psyker heavy for Nids.

Really, just stay back and shoot him for 3 turns and then rhino onto objectives T4-5. His shooting consists of 2 single zoanthropes. The rest is pretty so-so. That 9 warrior squad has a massive footprint, so if he keeps in cover it means he's not getting into range of your army so still a win. If he does advance then you should find a few out of cover for focus fire.

Flamers really kill genestealers, so combi-flamers on those sergeants!

Flyers would work for you as well. Kill those 2 zoanthropes, which is not too hard with T4, and the skies are all yours. If you don't want a stormtalon then take some IG allies.

An Aegis defence line would also be a good addition. If he's playing 1,800 pts then you should too ...

Gloomfang wrote:@roboute

Your right if you discount the round of shooting that the LotD get the turn they deepstrike. I am on my phone so i will have to work out how many warriors would get killed before they get the charge off.

And sorry if i discounted. I am out and typing on my phone so it is hard to reply in detail.

Assuming they DSed somewhere that isn't the front, they'd be shooting regular Warriors. If the Warriors are spread out, trying to get more than one with a flame template on the DS is asking for a mishap, but we'll assume the flamer and HF both get two models (HF is a really bad choice for LotD btw, as it doesn't take advantage of Relentless. They would be much better with a MM or ML). 7 Bolters and a pistol get 10 hits, 5 wounds, 2.5 unsaved. Flamer gets 0.5 unsaved wounds, HF gets 1.3 unsaved wounds. Total of about 4.3 wounds, so one dead Warrior.

Of course, if you take this into account, you'll need to look at the Warriors' counter-fire. The full squad would kill 2.2 Terminators, but 8 + the Prime would kill 4 LotD. That means after the first round of combat, you're looking at a LotD squad that is either dead or close to it, and barely served at as a speed bump.

And if that wasn't enough ... because both squads are just Infantry, the Termies have a decent change of getting the charge off on the Warriors, rather than the other way around. I don't care to run the numbers on that, but it would probably swing the combat in favor of the Termies.

Roboute wrote:
And if that wasn't enough ... because both squads are just Infantry, the Termies have a decent change of getting the charge off on the Warriors, rather than the other way around. I don't care to run the numbers on that, but it would probably swing the combat in favor of the Termies.

No problem. Then go with the Termies. I hadn't thought about how Relentless would work with the HF, so probably something like a PC would work too. I am just basing my list off of past table experences and hadn't Mathammered it out yet. I was also assuming both squads DSed in rather than walked. I think walking terminators would be at more of a disadvantage and if you are talking about putting them in a transport then we are talking about a much diffrent unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
I deployed very near the 18" mark in cover every time.

If you have a 6" bubble 12" away from your opponents deployment that is completely out of sight from every enemy unit on even half the tables you play on, your opponents have no idea what they're doing.

Ive never seen that kind of bubble in a tournament.

Must be the tables. Here there are at least 3-4 three story ruins on every table and then a bunch of area terrain on top of that. I am usually about 18" away when I deploy though. First turn move 6 and run@5. Turn 2 move 6 and charge in.

Spotlights on rhino's also are not real popular here yet. I will have to keep an eye out for those. Most people are going flyer heavy.

Gloomfang wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I deployed very near the 18" mark in cover every time.

If you have a 6" bubble 12" away from your opponents deployment that is completely out of sight from every enemy unit on even half the tables you play on, your opponents have no idea what they're doing.

Ive never seen that kind of bubble in a tournament.

Must be the tables. Here there are at least 3-4 three story ruins on every table and then a bunch of area terrain on top of that. I am usually about 18" away when I deploy though. First turn move 6 and run@5. Turn 2 move 6 and charge in.

Spotlights on rhino's also are not real popular here yet. I will have to keep an eye out for those. Most people are going flyer heavy.

Right - 18" away and in LoS. Which means it's trivial to throw some guns your way and destroy the unit.
Thinking back, I was wrong about losing an entire unit every game turn one. Game 1 lost a unit. Game 2 I outflanked them both. Game 3 I lost all 20 genestealers (but kept the broodlords) on turn one (6 biovores...). Game 4 I actually didn't lose a unit on turn one - he focused all his fire on my Tervigon. It was turn 2 they died. Game 5 they lasted for a while but died to mass termagant before they could assault. Game 6 was just bad and I'd rather not re-live it.

Now, cover wasn't hard to get, but neither was it guaranteed. There was literally no way to advance and stay in cover across the entire table. And that's pretty typical around here.
In non tournament games your opponent can make sure you get similar lanes of doom. Just saying that they'll be in assault on turn 2 isn't always accurate.
And if Necrons didn't make your meta throw at least a few spotlights out there, a few games of 6th should. If not... I want to play there.

rigeld2 wrote:Right - 18" away and in LoS. Which means it's trivial to throw some guns your way and destroy the unit.
Thinking back, I was wrong about losing an entire unit every game turn one. Game 1 lost a unit. Game 2 I outflanked them both. Game 3 I lost all 20 genestealers (but kept the broodlords) on turn one (6 biovores...). Game 4 I actually didn't lose a unit on turn one - he focused all his fire on my Tervigon. It was turn 2 they died. Game 5 they lasted for a while but died to mass termagant before they could assault. Game 6 was just bad and I'd rather not re-live it.

Now, cover wasn't hard to get, but neither was it guaranteed. There was literally no way to advance and stay in cover across the entire table. And that's pretty typical around here.
In non tournament games your opponent can make sure you get similar lanes of doom. Just saying that they'll be in assault on turn 2 isn't always accurate.
And if Necrons didn't make your meta throw at least a few spotlights out there, a few games of 6th should. If not... I want to play there.

Nope I place them out of LOS, usually in ruins even if it means I am a bit further away. The walls block LOS, but not my movement. Just have to make Difficult Terrain checks. And the tables are always set up so even for friendly play we use the tournment tables. I think that it is on of the reasons people are going with the flyers here, all the buildings.

If you ever make it to the GW factory in Memphis let me know. We have some very nice tables to play on.

33% of 6th edition games are on the short edges, which means that the nids must deploy 4' from their opponents table edge. Goodbye turn 2 charge.

I think the legion of the damned are a horrible idea - they deepstrike in and kill 2 warriors at most. They then lose 2-3 to deathspitters and another 2-3 to the warriors charge plus the sergeant to the prime. That is 5-7 dead lod and 2 dead warriors. LoD swings back and kills 1 warrior. Next turn LoD is wiped before they swing. To me, that is a hefty points investment for a 1 turn speed bump.

My opinion is that you have to shoot the warriors with S8 weapons before they get to you.

Inigo Montoya wrote:33% of 6th edition games are on the short edges, which means that the nids must deploy 4' from their opponents table edge. Goodbye turn 2 charge.

I think the legion of the damned are a horrible idea - they deepstrike in and kill 2 warriors at most. They then lose 2-3 to deathspitters and another 2-3 to the warriors charge plus the sergeant to the prime. That is 5-7 dead lod and 2 dead warriors. LoD swings back and kills 1 warrior. Next turn LoD is wiped before they swing. To me, that is a hefty points investment for a 1 turn speed bump.

My opinion is that you have to shoot the warriors with S8 weapons before they get to you.

Basically this. Against Nids, and particularly this list, missiles are your friend. Focus Fire means the Warriors can't really avoid your missiles, with a giant deathstar at least a couple will always be out of cover. Typhoons are the best because they don't need to worry about getting shot against this list, and they're mobile enough to stay out of assault. They even pack a heavy bolter for insult to injury.

@Inigo Montoya

Few points
1) Did you revise the list becasue I could have sworn there were more stealer broods when I made my list.

2) I didn't have time to Mathhammer the LotD all the way out. I thought they would kill at least 3 warriors and then anouther 2 on the charge. Forgot to take into account the star shooting at them before the charge.

3) Not sure why you think there are no Turn 2 charges with the other deployment set up. You still have the 2 units of stealers infiltrating in.

@Roboute
How are the Typhoons not going to get shot at? Deepstrike the raveners and there are 15 S5 shots that should easily wreck a AV10 HP2 skimmer even with Jink.
The Trygon also gets 6 S5 shots when it deepstrikes so it has a fair chance of killing one as well.

Any smart space marine player will keep his typhoons at a distance from the rest of his list. Typhoons excel at long range shooting and by moving them to places distant from his main battle lines he gets unique firing lines that will let him more easily pick off warriors/MCs, these typhoons will always be moving to get the best angles and will prolly not be very close to the rest of his army. If you chose to shoot them down with your deep strikes you will be pretty far out of range of the rest of his army and even if you destroy the typhoons, which granted you could, your trygon or raveners will be eating 10+ rockets from the rest of the army. Now I'm not gonna do the math but I don't think any trygon will be looking to good after eating 10 rockets so now the questions is; Was it worth is to destroy a 90 point speeder?

LOL my math skillz i forgot to add the 10th marine to the sternguard thanks for the catch.

To echo what others have said, use missiles. They'll give you a choice between firing at the MCs or normal units, depending on what each unit can see. I think taking the two Tac squads AND Scouts is a waste, though.
Where you have the option I would also take assault cannons, again they're good against both kinds of targets.
Lastly, TH/SS Termies should be the only unit you actually want to be in combat. They hit hard against the bigger nasties and still have a 3+ against all those Rending hits.

Right, enough about what to take, onto general tactics...!
Your opponent has clearly opted for a one-trick-pony approach with all those Rending units... but he has to get them into combat. Block this wherever you can. Set up your deployment to make the most of your lines of fire, try to cover all approaches so he can't hide any units from *everything*.
Also, keep your units as far back as possible. If you have to move to stay out of charge range, don't worry about missing out on the 12" rapid fire and Heavy shots, as with some luck you'll be getting them the turn after anyway.
Lastly, try to get your Termies into combat with the Trygon as they will wreck it to pieces. Failing that - or if the Trygon is purposefully deployed very far away from everything else to distract you - keep your Termies near your firing units so they can intercept anything that comes too close. Use the extra breathing time to reposition your shooters, so they can fire at unengaged Nids instead of just sitting there.

Gloomfang wrote:@Inigo Montoya

Few points
1) Did you revise the list becasue I could have sworn there were more stealer broods when I made my list.

2) I didn't have time to Mathhammer the LotD all the way out. I thought they would kill at least 3 warriors and then anouther 2 on the charge. Forgot to take into account the star shooting at them before the charge.

3) Not sure why you think there are no Turn 2 charges with the other deployment set up. You still have the 2 units of stealers infiltrating in.

@Roboute
How are the Typhoons not going to get shot at? Deepstrike the raveners and there are 15 S5 shots that should easily wreck a AV10 HP2 skimmer even with Jink.
The Trygon also gets 6 S5 shots when it deepstrikes so it has a fair chance of killing one as well.

The thing to remember is that the LotD is basically a Tactical Squad that stands up better to AP3+ and can fire on the move, for twice the cost. Would you expect a Tactical Squad to kill 5 Warriors with one round of Shooting and one Overwatch?

If you're deepstriking Raveners, please do shoot down my speeder. In 6e, with Beasts back to 12" move, ignoring DT (!) and Fleet charge range, I'm firmly of the belief that Raveners should always start on the board. At the very least, you're making the enemy choose between the Raveners and softening up the Warriorstar. Then, you're also not spending extra points to confuse the Raveners' role by adding a ranged weapon, because they will be either Running or charging every turn.

If you're deepstriking a Trygon, you have about a 24% chance of wrecking, exploding or permanently disabling a Typhoon (chance of 2 glances + chance of pen with Immob, WD or Explodes), with another 16.5% chance of (mostly) suppressing it for a turn. Not particularly stellar odds. And remember, the Typhoon is only 90 points. A single Typhoon comprises only a small fraction of the firepower available to the Marine player. The Marine player could (and should) have Tac squads with missile launchers (combat squadded so the other half can act as a speed bump), Scouts with MLs, maybe some Devastators, as well as probably 3 Typhoons.

The problem with deepstriking those two units is you're giving the SM player a clear firing priority. Turn 1? Kill those Genestealers, so they don't charge Turn 2. Turn 2? Kill those deepstrikers, so they don't charge Turn 3. Turn 3? Start focusing on that Warriorstar. That's why this Tyranid list doesn't synergize well together, it comes on in pieces, and a big chunk of it (the Warriorstar) is a lot slower than the other heavy hitters.

Roboute wrote:The problem with deepstriking those two units is you're giving the SM player a clear firing priority. Turn 1? Kill those Genestealers, so they don't charge Turn 2. Turn 2? Kill those deepstrikers, so they don't charge Turn 3. Turn 3? Start focusing on that Warriorstar. That's why this Tyranid list doesn't synergize well together, it comes on in pieces, and a big chunk of it (the Warriorstar) is a lot slower than the other heavy hitters.

No argument on anything there. Like I siad I hadn't done the Mathhammer on the the LotD. Also I did check and the list I have been fighting in my head looks nothing like the list now listed in the OP. Looks like it was editied and dropped an entire unit of stealers and downsized the stealer broods down to 10 and not 12.

I now see why everyone thinks my list is crap. Against the list now in the OP it is. When I made my list there was an entire extra stealer brood that had to be dealt with on turn 1 and the extra bodies to soak up the overwatch fire. Also people kept say ML squads when in my head I was seeing all those squads getting hit by the stealers before being able to target anything. Its also why my list is so immobile and my tactics sugestions were off.

My bad.

OK let me start fresh.

The Nid list as it now stands means the one you posted is good, better then mine. I was basing the tactics off the assumption that there was an extra psyker on the board and that there was anouther unit of troops. It only makes sense to send raveners and trigons off after the speeders if I am sure that the stealers are going to be taking out the big ML units on the other side as the speeders make great contesters late in the game and really good missle platforms.

So in short: Ignore my list. Sorry for getting confused.

Tested this and found the bikes a bit lacking. Here is the evolution that I think will work best for me:

Libby - avenger, null zone
10 tac squad - flamer, missle launcher, sgt w/ combi flamer - rhino w 2 x storm bolter
10 tac squad - flamer, missle launcher, sgt w/ combi flamer - rhino w 2 x storm bolter
10 tac squad - flamer, missle launcher, sgt w/ combi flamer - rhino w 2 x storm bolter
land speeder - typhoon
land speeder - typhoon
land speeder - typhoon
dev squad - 4 missles, tl ass cannon razorback
thunderfire
vindicator - dozer blade, hkm

Ive nothing to add other than I love Landspeeders. I think they are massively ignored for no goo reason.

land speeders are awesome. The only reason i have none in my list right now is that I am trying out the stormtalons.

I've been playing Space Marines for 4 years and here's my word to any Space Marines players when they ask how to beat something.

"With blade and bolter."


With that being said, I wanna take a look at your latest list.

Inigo Montoya wrote:Tested this and found the bikes a bit lacking. Here is the evolution that I think will work best for me:

Libby - avenger, null zone
10 tac squad - flamer, missle launcher, sgt w/ combi flamer - rhino w 2 x storm bolter
10 tac squad - flamer, missle launcher, sgt w/ combi flamer - rhino w 2 x storm bolter
10 tac squad - flamer, missle launcher, sgt w/ combi flamer - rhino w 2 x storm bolter
land speeder - typhoon
land speeder - typhoon
land speeder - typhoon
dev squad - 4 missles, tl ass cannon razorback
thunderfire
vindicator - dozer blade, hkm

More or less so a solid list. As for tactics or other things, I would generally agree with anyone else who posted here. The only things I have in questions here are the Razorback with Lascannons and Libby. Personally, I think both are poor choices. Lascannon is expensive and HB would do a better job killing supa-cockroaches. Libby is... well.... unhelpful since 6th Edition.

Also, instead of asking for lists, it may be wise to ask for tactics and playstyles. Looking at the supa-roach list that you are facing, as long as the Dice Godess smiles at you and you play smart, there should be no way for you to loose.

That is a twin linked assault cannon.
What HQ would be better for 100 points? The libby is far from useless, I just don't know in this situation what would work better for the points.

I think 4 S6 rending shots at 24" are far more useful than 3 S5 shots at 36" here. Maybe those 35 points with the 100 from the libby would yield a better hq, but against this list I dont know what would be good at 135 points or less.

Inigo Montoya wrote:That is a twin linked assault cannon.
What HQ would be better for 100 points? The libby is far from useless, I just don't know in this situation what would work better for the points.

I think 4 S6 rending shots at 24" are far more useful than 3 S5 shots at 36" here. Maybe those 35 points with the 100 from the libby would yield a better hq, but against this list I dont know what would be good at 135 points or less.

Hate to stick my nose into this again, but have you considered a Chapter Master? For 125 points you get a decent HQ and Orbital Bombardment would ruin the day of that War Star. Still have 10pt (not much I know) for some wargear like a Combi-flamer.

I have never used one, but I have seen people use them to pretty good effect.

Compare a captain and chapter masters statline. Observe the unreliability of the orbital bombardment. Think carefully before paying extra points for a chance at hitting something, with your mediocre beatstick.