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the white dwarf is the current "codex" if you can call it that.

That's in the White Dwarf. All the current Sister's rules are in the White Dwarf codex. The Witchhunter's Codex is as legal as the Sharpshooters doctrine.

Ailaros wrote:
I kind of wanted a version of the peasant scene from Holy Grail, except with having a conversation based on the beliefs of people I actually know. The above is a boiled down snippet of a real conversation I've had (I played the role of Barton in this case).

EXACTLY what came to mind when I read that. "Wow this sounds very... Holy Grail-ish". I really like reading your write ups! I check back every couple days crossing my fingers I see a new one from ya!

Interesting that you called out Stormtroopers for their (relative) toughness compared to the rest of your guys. A 4+ save is purchasable on Veterans. Not saying it would mean anything at all, god knows I don't consider that tough, but you did.

Well, I was losing about a PIS a turn. When my stormies showed up, my opponent was only able to shoot them down to half strength. Had not the location for maximum flamer carnage happened to also be next to straken, they had enough in them to pick off a FOURTH PIS in the turn after, thanks to their carapace keeping them alive.

Vets DO have the option. Something I'll consider. They're obviously not an analogue to stormies, but still...

... I've got to see if foot vets are worth bothering with at all before I consider doctrines.

Imho Foot vets are too fragile to be used in place of PIS' plus they get really expensive quickly when you start loading them up. Also let's face it that infantry are just going to be blown of the board and like you said, the only real use for them now is to hold objetives etc. So why use vets when you can put men that do the same job but at a cheaper price.

About the SOB allies, it seems viable but the only thing is how are you going to synergize 20 sisters of battle into your list, as they are your only troop choice.

Hmm, I guess you're right.

For 50 points, I get 10 guardsmen, and for 100 points I get 10 vets with Sv4+. Against things like small arms and chainswords they are equally durable (read: ludicrously fragile), for their points, and against the heavy stuff, they're equally fragile, but the vets cost twice as much.

I mean, the reason I'm bothering with foot vets at all at the moment is because I want to have at least SOMETHING that does counterattack nicely other than my CCS. Given my well-documented terrible luck with plasma guns (this game is only one of a long, tearful, bloody trail of them), perhaps I shouldn't bother. I feel like I still want to have at least one nice scoring unit, though.

In any case, I think that foot vets in general are something that, on paper, looks rather mediocre, but I want to give them a bit of a try before I write them off completely. There might be something that I've been missing.

I dont' think I'll bother with doctrines, though, until I know that they're taking in their own right.

If you want plasma, perhaps you should look into some other options like SWS' they're small and you can move them up with the PIS' as meatsheilds. Or maybe you could use the sister of battle as your counter attackers (kings guard elites) But I suggest you try it if you think they're is hope for them there might be something we're missing like you said.

Also why not take a second CCS ??

I've been thinking about plasma SWS squads for a bit, but I kept coming back to the fact that plasma foot vets are only 35 points more (115 vs 80) for BS4, 4 extra bodies, an extra leadership, and grenades.

I think a Sister's squad in a foot guard list is really there to move forward and claim objectives. They're Battle Brothers, so they're scoring units, and they're three times more durable to small arms (and have better leadership) than Guardsmen are for about twice the cost. You could probably give them a couple flamers for self-defense and objective clearing (135 total points), or maybe even no special weapons just to keep your cheap, accurate, long range (thanks to 6th) bolter fire. The interesting thing about them in a Guard army is that any shots directed at them are probably much better at killing guardsmen point for point, so they can kind of protect you squishier units in a way.

Thats a very good use for the troop units, though that's 270 pts out of the list, a lot of points and soldiers especially since foot guard relies on mass cheap infantry. Also I don't like the idea of SOB's in my army so some conversion needs to be done, and to be Frank I'm not sure how I'm going to represent the sisters in IG fashion.

However I'm still convinced that SOB allies is a good idea with all the extra priests who will be able to really buff the footguard's assault capabilities.

It's not exactly 270, really, because you only need to take a single allied troop and HQ. The HQ isn't even much of an opportunity cost, because you can swap a Priest out for a Confessor and it only costs you 40 additional points. Alternatively, you could swap a Lord Commissar for a Canoness for a very similar result (Ld10, stubborn) and points.

Whether this is worth it all depends on if you think that 12 point humans in power armor is worth it for your army. I'm not sure, but I think it's worth thinking through, especially because it feels more like equals than allying with Marines.

Biophysical wrote:I've been thinking about plasma SWS squads for a bit, but I kept coming back to the fact that plasma foot vets are only 35 points more (115 vs 80) for BS4, 4 extra bodies, an extra leadership, and grenades...

... yeah, this, basically.

Anyways, after mulling things over, I'm thinking about making another shakeup. One of the benefits of these battle reports is that I can write a new list and see how they would have fared, allowing me to make changes faster.

So, in one of my games, the PISs did basically nothing. In one of them, one of the PISs shot down a flier with a meltagun, and in two of them, they were just horribly butchered. If, most of the time, they're just there to take up space and die, then I might as well do this with conscripts for cheaper.

Were I to take out the temporarily failed priest experiment, and remove two PISs and replace it with a squad of conscripts, I'd have 190 points, with the loss of two meltaguns and two autocannons. Obviously, I could just throw in another hull las exterminator, and I'd have this basically directly covered, with a spare 25 points to... I don't know, throw some plasma pistols on the stormies?

Another option I'm seriously tempted by if I can find 10 points lying around is a bolter boat punisher. Just as good against vehicles under AV12, and nearly as good against fliers as the exterminator. Looking over my previous games, I'm somewhat unsure, though. Perhaps those points would be better spent on a basilisk or something...

40 conscripts: 160
3 Priests: 180
1 Lord Commissar: 85

Charge?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's got a pretty wicked Overwatch, too.

I didn't know you only had to take one troop choice for allies, that certainly makes things a lot better.

About your ideas on a new list, try formulating one and adding a thread so you can receive better feedback. Concerning conscripts, I would advise attaching a IC to boost Ld. And by the way go for the basilisk IMO those large blasts always wreak havoc upon enemies tanks or infantry.

Well done.

Your opponent's list was dead-awful.

Oh how I do enjoy the tales of the men of Folera. It is an excellent inspiration to continue working on my own foot guard list.

A quick question concerning commissars: Would a commissar be more survivable if he was at the back of a 30 man blob? It would be almost impossible to pick him out for shooting, and he could just deny challenges in CC. It would make squads a lot more survivable, morale wise.

Right, but morale is basically all it would give them. For a fraction of the cost of a few commissars, I can throw down a regimental standard which does basically the same thing.

The main problem of foot guard, at the moment, is that they take too many casualties, not that their morale is too low.

 Ailaros wrote:
Okay, but I'm still confused. Would the rules come from white dwarf, or from the old codex?

White Dwarf; the old codex is invalid. However, there's no legal way to attain it anymore unless you like digging through eBay auctions.