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 Fafnir wrote:
Yes, but the Necrons were written with 6th edition in mind, just as the Orkz and Daemons were written for 5th.

It was actually quite funny, upon the release of the Necron codex, we were all thinking it was competently balanced with the rest of the top codecies, if it was somewhat gimmicky (even in 5th, I couldn't stand how overly convoluted it was, but that's another topic).
By time 6th edition popped its ugly head around the corner, we all realized what Matt Ward was getting at.

...not too happy about that.

On that note I think someone should make a 6th Ed model for Necrons based of this 5th Ed one:


But other OP lists... well, DraigoWing is still OP, just not as much as it was before

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
DraigoWing is still OP, just not as much as it was before

I`d hardly call Draigowing OP. At least, not in any sense that the Necrons are. It brings a lot of power to the table, and it`s pretty easy to play (point at stuff and kill it). The raw power available to Draigowing definitely makes it incredibly intimidating, and players who don`t know how to handle it are in for a lot of pain, but once you do know how, they`re not nearly as threatening as most people think.

As a friend of mine remarked to me earlier today after a game (after a solid victory against my Draigowing/Nobwing army), Draigowing is an immensely powerful noobstomping list, but once you know how to exploit their weaknesses, the Draigowing player is going to have to work really hard to get anything done.

There are plenty far more powerful builds that the GK codex is capable of.

any army that can go to time without being accused of staling the game is powerful .

as others said necrons are top tier now. IG is very good , because now their undercosted skimers are flyers and they sit in a slot they dont use .
If SW had a way to get AA meta without IG they would be a lot better too , against other meq they are still very good .

orcs nobz+dakka jets+usual stuff works good too.

Fafnir wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

You cannot snapfire weapons that do not use BS to hit. If iut evades it CANNOT use the deathray

Flamers?

...have their own special rule, called Wall of Death. The general rule is no BS means no snap fire.

Necrons will lose an edge when more and more AA weapons will emerge.

The strongest builds are those using allies. This has not yet been exploited.
I imagine that a shooty army with a strong counter-strike detachment or an assault based army with a detachment able to give fire support will be the ways to go.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
This. It has to be in a straight line, it cannot be outside of the weapon arc horizontally or vertically - so 22.5 degrees left and right, and DOWN 22.5 degrees, as that is out of LOS and therefore cannot wound. Given it can only ever Zoom if you play smart you have planned for it taking a turn or possibly 2 before it can bring its guns to bear.

Except, in the case of the Death Ray, the shot does not have to be within the normal fire arc of a vehicle mounted weapon....

Necron Codex, pg50 wrote:Death ray: To fire the Death Ray, nominate a point on the battlefield ANYWHERE (my emphasis) within the weapon's range (12"), then nominate a second point within 3D6" of the first

So, using RAW in the Necron codex, the first point for the Death Ray can be directly behind the Doom Scythe if you want it to be. However, if you don't have any targets that are hit by the Death Ray in the arc of the Tesla Destructor, then you can't fire it because the Tesla Destructor has to fire at one of the targets hit by the Death Ray.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Necrons will lose an edge when more and more AA weapons will emerge.

The strongest builds are those using allies. This has not yet been exploited.
I imagine that a shooty army with a strong counter-strike detachment or an assault based army with a detachment able to give fire support will be the ways to go.

You mean something like a GK Draigostar + allied IG gunline kind of abuse?!

One local player who's renown for being a complete TFG is running a deathstar of Draigo + Libby + Techmarine with 6 Pallies. Backing it up are a combat squaded Strike Squad for the other mandetory Troops choice, (and some deep strike protection), plus a pair of psyflemen dreads. Allied to it is a crap-tone of basic IG + a manticore to gunline.

Boring as feth to play against, and even flyer spam is hurt by it thanks to IG orders and the twin-linked psyflemen. Whatever that pallystar hits simply explodes due to the 3 hammers + IC's + derp grenades.

Zathras wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:This. It has to be in a straight line, it cannot be outside of the weapon arc horizontally or vertically - so 22.5 degrees left and right, and DOWN 22.5 degrees, as that is out of LOS and therefore cannot wound. Given it can only ever Zoom if you play smart you have planned for it taking a turn or possibly 2 before it can bring its guns to bear.

Except, in the case of the Death Ray, the shot does not have to be within the normal fire arc of a vehicle mounted weapon....

...

So, using RAW in the Necron codex, the first point for the Death Ray can be directly behind the Doom Scythe if you want it to be. However, if you don't have any targets that are hit by the Death Ray in the arc of the Tesla Destructor, then you can't fire it because the Tesla Destructor has to fire at one of the targets hit by the Death Ray.

I wish you would have read the whole of that

Yes, the initial point can be anywhere you like. Now, when you come to allocate wound pools you lose all the wounds unless you are within LOS which is defined as.....ta da! the normal fire arc for a vehicle. MEaning that, unless you dont want your shot to do anything, you ARE restricted to firing within the normal fire arc

Using RAW means using ALL the rules.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Zathras wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:This. It has to be in a straight line, it cannot be outside of the weapon arc horizontally or vertically - so 22.5 degrees left and right, and DOWN 22.5 degrees, as that is out of LOS and therefore cannot wound. Given it can only ever Zoom if you play smart you have planned for it taking a turn or possibly 2 before it can bring its guns to bear.

Except, in the case of the Death Ray, the shot does not have to be within the normal fire arc of a vehicle mounted weapon....

...

So, using RAW in the Necron codex, the first point for the Death Ray can be directly behind the Doom Scythe if you want it to be. However, if you don't have any targets that are hit by the Death Ray in the arc of the Tesla Destructor, then you can't fire it because the Tesla Destructor has to fire at one of the targets hit by the Death Ray.

I wish you would have read the whole of that

Yes, the initial point can be anywhere you like. Now, when you come to allocate wound pools you lose all the wounds unless you are within LOS which is defined as.....ta da! the normal fire arc for a vehicle. MEaning that, unless you dont want your shot to do anything, you ARE restricted to firing within the normal fire arc

Using RAW means using ALL the rules.

So, according to this, you'd also lose the hits generated when the beam travels out of the arc of the weapon as well. BTW there's no mention of arc of fire limitations in the description of the Death Ray entry in the Necron codex but I do believe you are correct, unfortunantly.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Necrons will lose an edge when more and more AA weapons will emerge.

The strongest builds are those using allies. This has not yet been exploited.
I imagine that a shooty army with a strong counter-strike detachment or an assault based army with a detachment able to give fire support will be the ways to go.

You mean something like a GK Draigostar + allied IG gunline kind of abuse?!

One local player who's renown for being a complete TFG is running a deathstar of Draigo + Libby + Techmarine with 6 Pallies. Backing it up are a combat squaded Strike Squad for the other mandetory Troops choice, (and some deep strike protection), plus a pair of psyflemen dreads. Allied to it is a crap-tone of basic IG + a manticore to gunline.

Boring as feth to play against, and even flyer spam is hurt by it thanks to IG orders and the twin-linked psyflemen. Whatever that pallystar hits simply explodes due to the 3 hammers + IC's + derp grenades.

In fact, what I meant were armies like this: GK + IG, GK + Tau, etc.

I doubt necron airforce (and IG Vendetta-spam, for that matter) will be hurt much by the simple addition of of Flakk missiles.

Melta was (and is) much better than Flakk at cracking its target (mech), and tons of meltaguns on the table did not stop mech from being dominant in 5th.

In contrast, Flakk is weaker, allows countermeasures and is far more difficult to field in numbers capable of doing something, unless you are a Space wolf.

Flakk missiles -will- help against the player who brings 1-2 flyers and plays a 'balanced' list. The types who field 6+ flyers will still have enough firepower and numbers to brute-force the game.

Zathras wrote:

So, according to this, you'd also lose the hits generated when the beam travels out of the arc of the weapon as well. BTW there's no mention of arc of fire limitations in the description of the Death Ray entry in the Necron codex but I do believe you are correct, unfortunantly.

Yep. The rules in 6th ed are precise on this - you CANNOT wound models out of LOS, without an exception. No such exception exists within the death ray

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Zathras wrote:

So, according to this, you'd also lose the hits generated when the beam travels out of the arc of the weapon as well. BTW there's no mention of arc of fire limitations in the description of the Death Ray entry in the Necron codex but I do believe you are correct, unfortunantly.

Yep. The rules in 6th ed are precise on this - you CANNOT wound models out of LOS, without an exception. No such exception exists within the death ray

Ooh, good point, hadn't thought of this.

That said, the Necron Air Force is highly overrated. There are many armies that can counter it while still maintaining a balanced front against "normal" opposition. Is the Necron Air Force a factor that you have to take into account when building a list? Sure. But that doesn't make it the be-all end-all. I would be surprised to see a Necron Air Force take the upcoming NOVA Open, for instance. I suspect that many of the players at that level of competition will have adapted their armies to deal with large numbers of flyers.